By: SADSACK
- 10th September 2007 at 11:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
Am I right in thinking that the BBMF do not charge for appearances of the Lancaster (although I believe there are specific insurance requirements)?
If I am right then it would surely be difficult for a privately-operated Lancaster (such as NX611) to operate as they would have to charge for appearances - unless, of course, a sponsor was found.
Roger Smith.
Last time I was at the BBMF hangar the guide explained that events like garden fetes are done for free, but private functions will cost in his words "quite a bit of money"
NX611 famously made an unofficial flight, did she not? (albeit a brief one) What would the penalty be these days if somebody thought "oh what the hell, lets just take this thing round the circuit" without the correct paperwork? Or a techically perfect a/c which the owner decided to fly over to a fly in, without the final paper work from the CAA?
New
Posts: 3,214
By: Nashio966
- 10th September 2007 at 12:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
permanent withdrawal of flight status ??? my uncle oft makes the comment, "how tempting it must be to just pull back eh??" in reference to XM655 :)
By: Paul F
- 10th September 2007 at 12:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
What would the penalty be these days if somebody thought "oh what the hell, lets just take this thing round the circuit" without the correct paperwork? Or a techically perfect a/c which the owner decided to fly over to a fly in, without the final paper work from the CAA?
Presumably, for the individual at the controls it might prove his/her last flight for some time, as CAA could withdraw his/her licence? I assume flying an "unapproved" airframe on an unauthorised flight is pretty much at the top of their list of list of "Don't"s? I guess such a situation involving a restored "lighter" type (Piper Cub etc) might be more likely than with a heavy, but I imagine either scenario would be viewed just as poorly.
For the restoration/preservation movement as a whole I imagine it might prove a real disaster, as no doubt the CAA would need to be seen to clamp down very very tightly so as to avoid any other "cowboys" attempting the same sort of thing.
And, I presume that few "professional" pilots (note the use of the lower-case "p") would wish to break the rules to that extent anyway - whether or not the aeroplane involved was known/proven to be 100% fit for flight or not. Not least, presumably, if the airframe isn't suitably "approved" for flight, then insurance etc is also null and void - I would hope no conscientious pilots would make that sort of decision.
That said, I do wonder what the CAA would say if Just Jane (or any of the other "fast taxi" airframes (at Bruntingthorpe, Southend etc) hit a bad bump, or swung slightly, during a high speed run, and there really was only one way to save the aircraft and crew, and that was a careful "once round" the circuit......
I assume they would see such an act as "gross negiligence", inasmuch that all the risks of the fast taxi run had obviously not been properly assessed, considered, and resolved, thus leaving only unauthorised flight as an option - essentially coming back to the points above I guess.
I say leave Just Jane just as she is - if something untoward means PA474 is permanently grounded (or worse :( ) then maybe that would be time for a rethink, but even then I think I'd remain in the "keep her alive and taxiable, but don't risk her with full flight" category.
By: Rich Woods
- 10th September 2007 at 12:29Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The last I heard was that some time ago, the spar had been inspected, and x-rayed (I don't know how) and that it was in good order. When the question was asked after this little revelation, would it pass the necessary requirements the CAA would require we were told "YES".
It was stressed that "Jane" would have to have at least a year off and a major overhaul to make perfectly sure she would be safe to fly. The reason we were given for this not happening? It would be unfair to the people who come to see her.
It appear the spar issue is not something they are worried about at East Kirkby, should they want to make her go.
Much as I love the Lancaster, I think having one airworthy in the UK is enough. It makes PA474 the show stopper wherever she goes.... who can forget how the whole show will go quiet when you get that first hint of a rumble of Merlins in the distance..? Or how people stop in the street and watch her go by when she's on her way to an event?
It's nice to know that there is another one capable of flight (and potentially a third - wasn't KB889 at Duxford rebuilt to airworthy standards?)
Should anybody with deep enough pockets decide they want a Lancaster to fly, it would make a memorable sight having two in the air at once in the same area. Remember all the hype when we thought the Canadian example would be coming over for a season?
For the moment though, dreams aside, I'm happy to go to East Kirkby, and stand watching in awe, dodgy spar issue or not. But; I'll be at the front of the crowd watching if she does get the green light. Whatever the Pantons decide, it's a million times better than the sad lonely old Lancaster I saw as a 3 year old guarding Scampton remembering past glories.
By: victor45
- 10th September 2007 at 20:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
NX611
The reason i commenced this thread was to ellicit some positive responses and comments regarding the feasability of putting the aircraft back into an airworthy situation, in 1974 i was able to glean an insight into NX611s condition prior to her being dismantled by an RAF team at Squires Gate having known someone who was associated with her rescue, The main spar at that time had no corrosion issues and a qualified experienced Lanc Pilot (not neil williams)had offered to fly her down to Leeds Bradford Airport(shed already been passed fit to fly) where a scheme was being provisionally set up to have her as the centrepiece of a proposed air museum on the site of the former Avro shadow factory this was prior to Lord Lilfords Agent purchasing NX611 on his behalf (rumour at the time suggested lilford wasnt happy with his agents purchase)however the point is there was no corrosion factor involved, Once at Scampton the RAF removed certain equipment from NX611 to assist PA474, (dual control ,certain mechanical items) lm sure someone will argue against this occuring ,others will comment why not as she was to be static displayed ,the fact is NX611 could and should have been kept airworthy at that time ,had this been carried out(there were lancs/lincolns to be seen in aviation scrapyards ie Falsworth etc as a spares source) two instead of one! the rest is history and controversey.again where were the enthusiasts when NX611 came up for offer?there were only ever two parties that were seriously interested (albeit one who wasnt made aware until after the auction) in her future .hence her laguishing at Scampton until the pantons stepped in.:cool: :cool: :cool:
By: Lincoln
- 10th September 2007 at 20:38Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That said, I do wonder what the CAA would say if Just Jane (or any of the other "fast taxi" airframes (at Bruntingthorpe, Southend etc) hit a bad bump, or swung slightly, during a high speed run, and there really was only one way to save the aircraft and crew, and that was a careful "once round" the circuit......
Didn't the Lightning at duxford when she was in service go for an impromtu flight with a engineer at the controls lol, I heard a couple of people discussing it when I was at Duxford in may, although I didn't hear all their conversation lol:D
By: SADSACK
- 11th September 2007 at 10:29Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
whats the story on the un-authorised flight? Take it it wasn't recently ?
Cant remember, and dont wish to speculate who it was, but it was an ex lanc pilot, who got a bit carried away while ground running her, fast taxied her and it would seem lifted her off the run way for a bit, and landed somewhat roughly. Surely somebody must have details? Obviously this would be pre 1974.
I refuse to believe there isnt a pilot in this country, who having a perfect a/c and years of flying experiance, wouldnt hop over to a freinds strip if they fancied it, knowing their a/c would be legit as soon as the paper work cleared. Nobody would risk a Sea fury or a Hurricane, but maybe in a light a/c I am sure a pilot would make a quick hop. And what sort of freind would rat on them?
I have an article from years ago that says Americans have offered to take Just Jane to the States and been told where to go. The article indicated the Pantons want Jane to fly again but realise its not going to happen in their life time.
I still think finance wise it would logical to rebuild the runway, then you can bring in a/c etc. And I believe the rest of the farm/ex af is owned by the Pantons anyway.
By: Denis
- 11th September 2007 at 11:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the question of 'will she fly again' will be often asked by those with an interest, Lord knows I have asked myself the same thing every time I have seen NX611.
The comments are correct in that NX611 flying again would place the museum in the role of having its reason of existance removed. NX611 is in the best possible place for its future, joe public can get up close and personal with a Lancaster that would otherwise be 'out of bounds' like the remaining examples. I have had a love of Lancasters for more years than I care to think of, it took me from school age to being fifty years old before I ever set foot in one for the first time, and this I achieved a couple of years ago by taking a taxy ride in NX611.
Before then, the only option was gazing at 'Sugar' at Hendon, or Duxfords example. There was an eighty five year old former Lanc navigator, who lived across the road from me, who had tears in his eyes when I took him to see 'Jane' in his last year of life. For this reason alone the Heritage centre should stay as it is for the benefit of former Bomber Command aircrew who have not as many years as us to view the aircraft they went to battle in.
There is also something unique in the RAF Memorial flight Lancaster being the only airworthy specimen in the UK, you know it will receive TLC and be flown with its future well and truly catered for. NX611 has a decent roof over it's head now and is looked after equally well by her keepers. If something (shudder!) drastic should ever happen to PA474 then I would still like to see NX611 remain at East Kirkby.
By: phil103
- 11th September 2007 at 20:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Runway
There is a good 3000ft runway still there, it was used by the spitfire til the grass strip was finished and also used for the fast taxi for the BBC. It is in pretty good nick as it is also used for motorbike drag racing. It isn't owned by the Pantons though
By: SADSACK
- 12th September 2007 at 10:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
I chatted to a fascinating former Lancaster pilot years ago at East Kirkby, years ago, who was a Canon at Lincoln Cathedral. He had lost a foot in a crash in Germany. His conversation was fascinating. He scoffed at the Halifax and said the stirling was "ok" but the Lanc in his opinion was the best we had. Wonder who he was.
Anyone have an idea how many a/c have come and gone/displayed at East Kirby over the years. Apart from Nx611 I remember a spitfire cockpit, a tatty looking Proctor, a Chipmunk which flew out, any others?
By: phil103
- 12th September 2007 at 13:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Currently there is the two seat siptfire and a Canberra cockpit in the main hanger, the Procter I believe is the one that's in the workshop being restored along with the Hampden cockpit/nose. It's been there as long as I've been going which is I guess around 8/9 years and not much has changed with it. I think I read somewhere that the gentleman originally restoring them had passed away. I believe in the past a museum that went under brought some aircraft to East Kirkby but they have all moved on. There is a piece about it in the workshop area.
By: R J A Taylor
- 12th September 2007 at 23:35Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cant remember, and dont wish to speculate who it was, but it was an ex lanc pilot, who got a bit carried away while ground running her, fast taxied her and it would seem lifted her off the run way for a bit, and landed somewhat roughly. Surely somebody must have details? Obviously this would be pre 1974. .............................
I'd dearly love to know where these stories of "unauthorised flights" come from in respect of NX611 !!!
Having been personally involved with NX611 (aircraft named "Guy Gibson" in those days) throughout most of the time she was maintained in an airworthy condition (mid 1965 to her final flight to Squires Gate, Blackpool on 26th June 1970) I know of no instance when this could have taken place !!
The only "famous" (or "infamous") incident that I can recall occured in 1969, when NX611 (Coded 'HA-P' at the time) was based on Lavenham Airfield in Suffolk. On 19th April 1969 the Reflectaire 'Museum' hosted a private family visit by the legendary Leonard Cheshire VC and his wife 'Sue' Ryder.
In honour of this visit it was decided to do a full engine run and the guests were invited to be on board the aircraft. With all 4-engines running smoothly the lancaster performed a full power 'run' whilst securely 'chocked' on the main concrete dispersal area to the east of the control tower.
Being personally on the dispersal area supervising the 'run' (and taking 8mm cine film of the occasion for a record) I was surprised when it was decided onboard to remove the chocks to the main wheels. Even more of a surprise came as NX611 began to edge forward on the dispersal area and seated at the controls, in the left hand seat, was none other than Leonard Cheshire !!
The engines continued to operate smoothly and the throttles began to 'blip' as the aircraft edged forward and swung to the right on to the perimeter track. All the assembled cars belonging to visitors and Reflectaire volunteer workers were suddenly seen to hastily manoevre out of the way of the lanc as she headed eastwards along the peri-track.
As the aircraft approached the left-hand bend of the peri-track there was an audible cry of disbelief as NX611 suddenly lurched to port as her main port undercarriage wheel slewed into the ploughed earth of the farmer's field !!
She was well and truly stuck and no matter how much power was applied to the 2 port engines she refused to budge. With all 4 engines shut down she looked a sorrowful sight and naturally there was considerable concern amongst the onlookers as they rushed to the scene.
As there was no way of extracating NX611 from the field under her own power it was decided to utilise the pulling power of the 'museum's' White 'Half Track' vehicle which was luckily available and fuelled. As the lanc's tow-bar was hitched to the tailwheel the other end was attached to the 'Half Track'. At this point Leonard Cheshire appeared from the rear of the aircraft looking extremely concerned that he may have damaged the aircraft and headed at speed towards the port undercarriage to see if he could help.
After some 5 or so minutes the 'Half track' managed to gradually pull NX611 clear of the field and, much to the relief of everybody - especially Leonard Cheshire - re-positioned once more on the dispersal area.
This incident must have really shaken Leonard Cheshire as he marked 'the occasion' by entering the following in the aircraft's Log Book :
"ALL 4 ENGINES RUN - ALL FUNCTIONING OK - EDGE OF RUNWAY SOFT" (!)
Signed Leonard Cheshire
It has always been the subject of some amusement and conjecture over the years that followed this incident that "If the aircraft hadn't enbedded its port undercarriage wheel in the soft earth of the field - WE WONDER IF LEONARD CHESHIRE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SLIGHTLY TEMPTED TO 'OPEN UP' THE THROTTLES AND HEAD FOR THE OPEN RUNWAY!!!"
Doubless nobody will ever know the answer to that piece of conjecture - but to mark the ocassion the 'HA-P' code letters on the side of NX611 were quickly replaced by 'GL-C' ('Geoffrey' Leonard Cheshire). As you can imagine - there was subsequently many a frivolous remark by certain visitors to the 'museum' - "WHY HAVE YOU PUT THE ABBREVIATION LETTERS FOR THE [B]GREATER LONDON COUNCIL ON THE SIDES OF THE LANC[/B] !!! (Those old enough will remember !!)
As I mentioned, I did take some cine film of this engine run but as yet haven't had it digitally enhanced to CD / DVD - but here's one still frame I managed to scan in. It's not great but it shows what I have described above I hope (Leonard Cheshire is centre of picture).
This 'Cheshire' event was mentioned in the text of the 1974 "Story of a Lanc" publication which I helped produce with Brian Goulding & Mike Garbett (of 'Lancaster at War' publication fame) and the then Sqdn. Ldr. John Partridge (RAF Scampton) and I can only think that this has possibly been the source of the 'unauthorised take-off' rumour which unfortunately seems to have falsely passed into the historic record of NX611 (at least on this Forum anyway).
Hope this has helped to possibly scotch this unsubstantiated 'rumour' !
By: R J A Taylor
- 11th November 2019 at 20:06Permalink- Edited 11th November 2019 at 20:10
New DVD compiled & on-sale at East Kirkby - titled "NX611 The Flying Years'. Plenty of original colour 8mm footage of this Lancaster. Highly recommend. Good book also - 'Story of a Lanc' - last published in 2010, but in process of being reprinted & extended - hopefully by 2020 - NX611's 70th Birthday.
Posts: 3,415
By: SADSACK - 10th September 2007 at 11:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
Last time I was at the BBMF hangar the guide explained that events like garden fetes are done for free, but private functions will cost in his words "quite a bit of money"
NX611 famously made an unofficial flight, did she not? (albeit a brief one) What would the penalty be these days if somebody thought "oh what the hell, lets just take this thing round the circuit" without the correct paperwork? Or a techically perfect a/c which the owner decided to fly over to a fly in, without the final paper work from the CAA?
Posts: 3,214
By: Nashio966 - 10th September 2007 at 12:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
permanent withdrawal of flight status ??? my uncle oft makes the comment, "how tempting it must be to just pull back eh??" in reference to XM655 :)
Posts: 1,084
By: Paul F - 10th September 2007 at 12:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Presumably, for the individual at the controls it might prove his/her last flight for some time, as CAA could withdraw his/her licence? I assume flying an "unapproved" airframe on an unauthorised flight is pretty much at the top of their list of list of "Don't"s? I guess such a situation involving a restored "lighter" type (Piper Cub etc) might be more likely than with a heavy, but I imagine either scenario would be viewed just as poorly.
For the restoration/preservation movement as a whole I imagine it might prove a real disaster, as no doubt the CAA would need to be seen to clamp down very very tightly so as to avoid any other "cowboys" attempting the same sort of thing.
And, I presume that few "professional" pilots (note the use of the lower-case "p") would wish to break the rules to that extent anyway - whether or not the aeroplane involved was known/proven to be 100% fit for flight or not. Not least, presumably, if the airframe isn't suitably "approved" for flight, then insurance etc is also null and void - I would hope no conscientious pilots would make that sort of decision.
That said, I do wonder what the CAA would say if Just Jane (or any of the other "fast taxi" airframes (at Bruntingthorpe, Southend etc) hit a bad bump, or swung slightly, during a high speed run, and there really was only one way to save the aircraft and crew, and that was a careful "once round" the circuit......
I assume they would see such an act as "gross negiligence", inasmuch that all the risks of the fast taxi run had obviously not been properly assessed, considered, and resolved, thus leaving only unauthorised flight as an option - essentially coming back to the points above I guess.
I say leave Just Jane just as she is - if something untoward means PA474 is permanently grounded (or worse :( ) then maybe that would be time for a rethink, but even then I think I'd remain in the "keep her alive and taxiable, but don't risk her with full flight" category.
Paul F
Posts: 96
By: Rich Woods - 10th September 2007 at 12:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The last I heard was that some time ago, the spar had been inspected, and x-rayed (I don't know how) and that it was in good order. When the question was asked after this little revelation, would it pass the necessary requirements the CAA would require we were told "YES".
It was stressed that "Jane" would have to have at least a year off and a major overhaul to make perfectly sure she would be safe to fly. The reason we were given for this not happening? It would be unfair to the people who come to see her.
It appear the spar issue is not something they are worried about at East Kirkby, should they want to make her go.
Much as I love the Lancaster, I think having one airworthy in the UK is enough. It makes PA474 the show stopper wherever she goes.... who can forget how the whole show will go quiet when you get that first hint of a rumble of Merlins in the distance..? Or how people stop in the street and watch her go by when she's on her way to an event?
It's nice to know that there is another one capable of flight (and potentially a third - wasn't KB889 at Duxford rebuilt to airworthy standards?)
Should anybody with deep enough pockets decide they want a Lancaster to fly, it would make a memorable sight having two in the air at once in the same area. Remember all the hype when we thought the Canadian example would be coming over for a season?
For the moment though, dreams aside, I'm happy to go to East Kirkby, and stand watching in awe, dodgy spar issue or not. But; I'll be at the front of the crowd watching if she does get the green light. Whatever the Pantons decide, it's a million times better than the sad lonely old Lancaster I saw as a 3 year old guarding Scampton remembering past glories.
Regards
Ric
Posts: 296
By: victor45 - 10th September 2007 at 20:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
NX611
The reason i commenced this thread was to ellicit some positive responses and comments regarding the feasability of putting the aircraft back into an airworthy situation, in 1974 i was able to glean an insight into NX611s condition prior to her being dismantled by an RAF team at Squires Gate having known someone who was associated with her rescue, The main spar at that time had no corrosion issues and a qualified experienced Lanc Pilot (not neil williams)had offered to fly her down to Leeds Bradford Airport(shed already been passed fit to fly) where a scheme was being provisionally set up to have her as the centrepiece of a proposed air museum on the site of the former Avro shadow factory this was prior to Lord Lilfords Agent purchasing NX611 on his behalf (rumour at the time suggested lilford wasnt happy with his agents purchase)however the point is there was no corrosion factor involved, Once at Scampton the RAF removed certain equipment from NX611 to assist PA474, (dual control ,certain mechanical items) lm sure someone will argue against this occuring ,others will comment why not as she was to be static displayed ,the fact is NX611 could and should have been kept airworthy at that time ,had this been carried out(there were lancs/lincolns to be seen in aviation scrapyards ie Falsworth etc as a spares source) two instead of one! the rest is history and controversey.again where were the enthusiasts when NX611 came up for offer?there were only ever two parties that were seriously interested (albeit one who wasnt made aware until after the auction) in her future .hence her laguishing at Scampton until the pantons stepped in.:cool: :cool: :cool:
Posts: 80
By: phil103 - 10th September 2007 at 20:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
whats the story on the un-authorised flight? Take it it wasn't recently ?
Posts: 172
By: Lincoln - 10th September 2007 at 20:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Didn't the Lightning at duxford when she was in service go for an impromtu flight with a engineer at the controls lol, I heard a couple of people discussing it when I was at Duxford in may, although I didn't hear all their conversation lol:D
Posts: 3,415
By: SADSACK - 11th September 2007 at 10:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
Cant remember, and dont wish to speculate who it was, but it was an ex lanc pilot, who got a bit carried away while ground running her, fast taxied her and it would seem lifted her off the run way for a bit, and landed somewhat roughly. Surely somebody must have details? Obviously this would be pre 1974.
I refuse to believe there isnt a pilot in this country, who having a perfect a/c and years of flying experiance, wouldnt hop over to a freinds strip if they fancied it, knowing their a/c would be legit as soon as the paper work cleared. Nobody would risk a Sea fury or a Hurricane, but maybe in a light a/c I am sure a pilot would make a quick hop. And what sort of freind would rat on them?
I have an article from years ago that says Americans have offered to take Just Jane to the States and been told where to go. The article indicated the Pantons want Jane to fly again but realise its not going to happen in their life time.
I still think finance wise it would logical to rebuild the runway, then you can bring in a/c etc. And I believe the rest of the farm/ex af is owned by the Pantons anyway.
Posts: 1,496
By: Denis - 11th September 2007 at 11:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the question of 'will she fly again' will be often asked by those with an interest, Lord knows I have asked myself the same thing every time I have seen NX611.
The comments are correct in that NX611 flying again would place the museum in the role of having its reason of existance removed. NX611 is in the best possible place for its future, joe public can get up close and personal with a Lancaster that would otherwise be 'out of bounds' like the remaining examples. I have had a love of Lancasters for more years than I care to think of, it took me from school age to being fifty years old before I ever set foot in one for the first time, and this I achieved a couple of years ago by taking a taxy ride in NX611.
Before then, the only option was gazing at 'Sugar' at Hendon, or Duxfords example. There was an eighty five year old former Lanc navigator, who lived across the road from me, who had tears in his eyes when I took him to see 'Jane' in his last year of life. For this reason alone the Heritage centre should stay as it is for the benefit of former Bomber Command aircrew who have not as many years as us to view the aircraft they went to battle in.
There is also something unique in the RAF Memorial flight Lancaster being the only airworthy specimen in the UK, you know it will receive TLC and be flown with its future well and truly catered for. NX611 has a decent roof over it's head now and is looked after equally well by her keepers. If something (shudder!) drastic should ever happen to PA474 then I would still like to see NX611 remain at East Kirkby.
Posts: 80
By: phil103 - 11th September 2007 at 20:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Runway
There is a good 3000ft runway still there, it was used by the spitfire til the grass strip was finished and also used for the fast taxi for the BBC. It is in pretty good nick as it is also used for motorbike drag racing. It isn't owned by the Pantons though
Posts: 3,415
By: SADSACK - 12th September 2007 at 10:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
I chatted to a fascinating former Lancaster pilot years ago at East Kirkby, years ago, who was a Canon at Lincoln Cathedral. He had lost a foot in a crash in Germany. His conversation was fascinating. He scoffed at the Halifax and said the stirling was "ok" but the Lanc in his opinion was the best we had. Wonder who he was.
Anyone have an idea how many a/c have come and gone/displayed at East Kirby over the years. Apart from Nx611 I remember a spitfire cockpit, a tatty looking Proctor, a Chipmunk which flew out, any others?
Posts: 80
By: phil103 - 12th September 2007 at 13:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Currently there is the two seat siptfire and a Canberra cockpit in the main hanger, the Procter I believe is the one that's in the workshop being restored along with the Hampden cockpit/nose. It's been there as long as I've been going which is I guess around 8/9 years and not much has changed with it. I think I read somewhere that the gentleman originally restoring them had passed away. I believe in the past a museum that went under brought some aircraft to East Kirkby but they have all moved on. There is a piece about it in the workshop area.
Posts: 159
By: R J A Taylor - 12th September 2007 at 23:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'd dearly love to know where these stories of "unauthorised flights" come from in respect of NX611 !!!
Having been personally involved with NX611 (aircraft named "Guy Gibson" in those days) throughout most of the time she was maintained in an airworthy condition (mid 1965 to her final flight to Squires Gate, Blackpool on 26th June 1970) I know of no instance when this could have taken place !!
The only "famous" (or "infamous") incident that I can recall occured in 1969, when NX611 (Coded 'HA-P' at the time) was based on Lavenham Airfield in Suffolk. On 19th April 1969 the Reflectaire 'Museum' hosted a private family visit by the legendary Leonard Cheshire VC and his wife 'Sue' Ryder.
In honour of this visit it was decided to do a full engine run and the guests were invited to be on board the aircraft. With all 4-engines running smoothly the lancaster performed a full power 'run' whilst securely 'chocked' on the main concrete dispersal area to the east of the control tower.
Being personally on the dispersal area supervising the 'run' (and taking 8mm cine film of the occasion for a record) I was surprised when it was decided onboard to remove the chocks to the main wheels. Even more of a surprise came as NX611 began to edge forward on the dispersal area and seated at the controls, in the left hand seat, was none other than Leonard Cheshire !!
The engines continued to operate smoothly and the throttles began to 'blip' as the aircraft edged forward and swung to the right on to the perimeter track. All the assembled cars belonging to visitors and Reflectaire volunteer workers were suddenly seen to hastily manoevre out of the way of the lanc as she headed eastwards along the peri-track.
As the aircraft approached the left-hand bend of the peri-track there was an audible cry of disbelief as NX611 suddenly lurched to port as her main port undercarriage wheel slewed into the ploughed earth of the farmer's field !!
She was well and truly stuck and no matter how much power was applied to the 2 port engines she refused to budge. With all 4 engines shut down she looked a sorrowful sight and naturally there was considerable concern amongst the onlookers as they rushed to the scene.
As there was no way of extracating NX611 from the field under her own power it was decided to utilise the pulling power of the 'museum's' White 'Half Track' vehicle which was luckily available and fuelled. As the lanc's tow-bar was hitched to the tailwheel the other end was attached to the 'Half Track'. At this point Leonard Cheshire appeared from the rear of the aircraft looking extremely concerned that he may have damaged the aircraft and headed at speed towards the port undercarriage to see if he could help.
After some 5 or so minutes the 'Half track' managed to gradually pull NX611 clear of the field and, much to the relief of everybody - especially Leonard Cheshire - re-positioned once more on the dispersal area.
This incident must have really shaken Leonard Cheshire as he marked 'the occasion' by entering the following in the aircraft's Log Book :
"ALL 4 ENGINES RUN - ALL FUNCTIONING OK - EDGE OF RUNWAY SOFT" (!)
It has always been the subject of some amusement and conjecture over the years that followed this incident that "If the aircraft hadn't enbedded its port undercarriage wheel in the soft earth of the field - WE WONDER IF LEONARD CHESHIRE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SLIGHTLY TEMPTED TO 'OPEN UP' THE THROTTLES AND HEAD FOR THE OPEN RUNWAY!!!"
Doubless nobody will ever know the answer to that piece of conjecture - but to mark the ocassion the 'HA-P' code letters on the side of NX611 were quickly replaced by 'GL-C' ('Geoffrey' Leonard Cheshire). As you can imagine - there was subsequently many a frivolous remark by certain visitors to the 'museum' - "WHY HAVE YOU PUT THE ABBREVIATION LETTERS FOR THE [B]GREATER LONDON COUNCIL ON THE SIDES OF THE LANC[/B] !!! (Those old enough will remember !!)
As I mentioned, I did take some cine film of this engine run but as yet haven't had it digitally enhanced to CD / DVD - but here's one still frame I managed to scan in. It's not great but it shows what I have described above I hope (Leonard Cheshire is centre of picture).
This 'Cheshire' event was mentioned in the text of the 1974 "Story of a Lanc" publication which I helped produce with Brian Goulding & Mike Garbett (of 'Lancaster at War' publication fame) and the then Sqdn. Ldr. John Partridge (RAF Scampton) and I can only think that this has possibly been the source of the 'unauthorised take-off' rumour which unfortunately seems to have falsely passed into the historic record of NX611 (at least on this Forum anyway).
Hope this has helped to possibly scotch this unsubstantiated 'rumour' !
Richard (aka "Dick" Taylor in those days!!!)
Posts: 3,415
By: SADSACK - 13th September 2007 at 11:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
re
That sound like the most likely. Has anyone else got any footage of her over the years?
Posts: 159
By: R J A Taylor - 11th November 2019 at 20:06 Permalink - Edited 11th November 2019 at 20:10
New DVD compiled & on-sale at East Kirkby - titled "NX611 The Flying Years'. Plenty of original colour 8mm footage of this Lancaster. Highly recommend. Good book also - 'Story of a Lanc' - last published in 2010, but in process of being reprinted & extended - hopefully by 2020 - NX611's 70th Birthday.