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Thread: Lancaster, err Wellington wreck

  1. #151
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    Just bought that add on and it looks good so far......

    M

  2. #152
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    Marco.

    I think Alan Clark has given you most of the information the ORB will provide except for specifics. I think we're now moving into areas in which I won't know enough to be of any further help but if there is anything that crops that I can help with I'll be happy to oblige.

    Thanks to you bringing this to our attention, five men (although not those you expected) have had their story brought to a wider audience and in so doing their service and sacrifice is honoured.

    Regards,

    kev35
    The Forums only '"blithering anorak" as endorsed by ZRX61

  3. #153
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    The ORB had the other operations they had flown but not much else, the appendices for 1943 are missing, it runs from 1941 - 1939 - 1937 - 1944 - 1945 so is of no use. I was hoping they would have been there and there would be a copy of the orders etc.

    I did take photos of all the pages (original files sizes ~3.5Mb).

  4. #154
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    I think Resmoroh's posts about a reconstruction of the last flight of LN466 ia a brilliant one and something I would never have thought of.As Marco was asking about the creation of maps earlier, would it be possible to tie the reconstruction and maps together? I have no idea about flight simulation but it sounds like a good idea.

    Regards,

    kev35
    The Forums only '"blithering anorak" as endorsed by ZRX61

  5. #155
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    Maybe it is worth posting something on the Key Publishing ‘Flight Simulation’ forum?
    WA$.

  6. #156
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    Kev,
    Some months ago I was able (with my very limited abilities on Flt Sims) to produce a "photo" of the situation - as viewed from a Lancaster Pilot's seat - of the conditions apertaining to a particular event, in the place, and at the time. The Moon, etc, was in precisely the right place at the date/time, and the Lanc was headed in the right direction and at the right height.
    I say this not to beat my own drum, but simply to indicate that if I (at my very low level of expertise) can do it then others, more experienced, can do better. Whilst you just have to input date/time into a FS program it will give you correct astronomical situation, the input of the met parameters is much more difficult. The actual conditions may not be known. A (mythical!) Met Sect may be able to give a close approximation (but all Met Persons hedge their bets - it's bred into us from an early age!!). But just where, on any trip, the accretion of airframe/engine icing, and electrical activity became more than could be coped with by the a/c's systems is a matter for debate. This was a problem that the COI had to deal with in the 1940's! And still, to a certain extent even with our magical systems, today.
    HTH
    Resmoroh
    Meteorology is a science: good meteorology is an art.

  7. #157
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    Sep 2009
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    Thank you all, Kev, Resmoroh, Alan,

    Very kind from you all. I read your posts this night but I could not answer.
    The simulator page concerning a Wellington bomber was simply great. And the datas from the ORB, too. Thank you very much.

    Is it possible to have a scan or photographed versione, please?

  8. #158
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    Bill Turner was there that night flying over Turin in his Wellington bomber

    Hello Marco and others,

    My Dad, Bill Turner, is 86 years old and doesn't use computers, but on November 24th, 1943 he was sent on a mission to bomb a factory in Turin. He is Canadian, but was flying with the RAF Squadron 104. There were several Wellington bombers sent on that raid....7 or 8 squadrons with 7 or 8 bombers each. The weather was terrible. Eight of the planes on the mission didn’t make it back to base. None of the crews found their targets. One plane was seen smacking into a mountain, its explosion lighting up the terrain for other luckier crews who relied on this morbid illumination to avoid the same fate. Dad ended up dropping his bombs to reduce the weight of the plane, in order to get over the mountain and avoid a similar crash. For the past 60 years whenever he mentions that raid over Turin, it brings him to tears. It was a stormy night and he couldn't see anything and he has always worried that he may have dropped his bombs on innocent people below. Because this bothered him so much, my son, Shawn Doyle has spent the last two years researching this episode, trying to find out if any bombs were reported falling and killing anybody that night anywhere around Turin. Shawn lives in Milan, Italy. If you want to learn more, Shawn's email is sdoyle@post.harvard.edu. (He speaks Italian). You can also phone Bill Turner in Canada at 1-250-655-0685. He has a fabulous memory of everything!

    Bill Turner's daughter, Susan Doyle

  9. #159
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    Susan (Shawn and Bill) welcome to the forum.

    What a remarkable coincidence that you son is now living in Italy.

    For anybody new to this thread Bill’s wartime service is the subject of this article from the January 2008 edition of the ‘Clarion Newsletter’:
    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Here is an account from 205 Group navigator Flight Lieutenant William (Bill) Turner RCAF that I found on the web:

    Raid on Turin Ball Bearing Factory 24th November 1943:

    "A pronounced cold front was very active over the area we were to traverse. It was hoped the front would weaken before we arrived at the Italian coast; but it grew more intense with winds 50-70 knots - this was not to helpful for an aircraft flying at 120 knots. We were blown off course and we were unable to get a specific pinpoint. We were confronted by masses of cumulus and cumulonimbus clouds. We couldn’t reach a higher altitude as our dear old Wimpy had troubles. We had to go below the cloud to try to get an accurate pinpoint to put us on the right course to the target.

    We descended to a planned altitude of 3000 ft. I suddenly spotted a light that should not have been there. The WOP dropped a small flare and immediately lit up the ground below us revealing an Italian Villa with a marble statue in the garden. We were less than 300 ft, I anxiously told our Pilot to pull up and told the bomb aimer, who was in the nose of the craft, to drop our bomb load. We were just about blown to pieces by our own bombs. Our pilot (Eric) saw more than the rest of the crew - he never spoke the rest of the way home.

    We then went down the coast of Sardinia. We saw two or three explosions, which were later, discovered as being crashed Wellingtons. We finally got a pinpoint and headed to our landing strip at El Oudna in Tunisia. The de-briefing was not a happy one - the losses were in the neighbourhood of 25% with very few aircraft reaching the target."

    www.unit302.ca/ClarionJanuary2008.pdf (Page 8)

    This excellent account comes from the January 2008 edition of the ‘Clarion Newsletter’ from the Sidney Unit #302 website:

    http://www.unit302.ca/
    WA$.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillTurner View Post
    One plane was seen smacking into a mountain, its explosion lighting up the terrain for other luckier crews who relied on this morbid illumination to avoid the same fate.
    I wonder if this aircraft could have been LN466?
    WA$.

  11. #161
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    Creaking Door.

    It makes you wonder doesn't it? And whoever it was, it's astonishing to think that their deaths as the aircraft exploded might just have meant the difference between life and death for at least one other crew.

    Marco.

    Have emailed CWGC and expect a reply in six to eight weeks.

    Regards,

    kev35
    The Forums only '"blithering anorak" as endorsed by ZRX61

  12. #162
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    Sep 2009
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    Hi Kev, thank you,


    Very sorry, I am really busy and until this moment I could not read the forum..

    Very very interesting. If it was my plane, the one whose flames saved the lives of other crews, it would be incredible.
    I will contact Shawn Doyle, thank you.

  13. #163
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    Sep 2009
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    Hi all,

    I am back after the Eni Award conclusion..

    I have already started to write my tale. Regards!

    Marco

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