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Thread: Stirling Project Update

  1. #571
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    Apr 2007
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    Hi Rob

    I'd like to think that we have a formal plan, but as you say it's often a case of as and when.

    Currently the Project has the following ongoing work:

    1. Draw up the bomb bay structure
    2. Design the fuselage jig in conjunction with 1. above
    3. Finish off the flight deck components.

    In reality we are working on the smaller stuff whilst the 'big' stuff is getting designed behind the scenes. Once the 'big' stuff is ready to be realised, it'll be all hands on deck sorting out the manufacture of the individual components and working out the logical sequence of how it will all go together

    John

  2. #572
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    Oct 2007
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    England
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    Ok cheers. Do you have many items come in from donors, or from sources that you can buy from, or do you find those sort of offers are becoming less often and less fruitful?


    Rob

  3. #573
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    Funnily enough Rob, I'd actually say that we've had access to more original parts recently than for a long time so things are looking up a bit. We've also had a lot more offers of help from people/organisations offering to make parts as well

    we've been very fortunate on that front

    John

  4. #574
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    Mar 2012
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    Guelph Canada
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    Short Stirling EF133 HA-A seen here on a Yank aerodrome August 1944. A-Apple was the regular mount of Squadron Leader John Overton DFC “A” Flight Commander. An ex XV Squadron aircraft it arrived on the squadron December 19th 1943. The aircraft completed 30 raids with the squadron before transfer to No.149 (East India) Squadron on August 11th 1944. While with 149 the aircraft carried out 1 Air Sea Rescue flight before passed onto No.1651 CU on September 13th. The aircraft was SoC April 24th 1945."
    Which Airfieild please ?



  5. #575
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    2,890
    Hi All,
    Duggy,
    Always loved the Stirling a very underrated bomber IMHO but those pictures are beautiful many thanks for sharing them..........

    Geoff.

  6. #576
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Just S of Stansted TMZ Fairsted
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    Lovely and crisp shots, look like they were taken yesterday !
    SMOKE SMOKE GO!
    TA out

  7. #577
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    Guelph Canada
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    Thanks
    It would be really cool if they were taken yesterday.
    Then again due to these amazing enthusiasts that run this thread, I believe it will one day be a reality.
    For a lot more photo's on the Stirling visit here -- http://www.axis-and-allies-paintwork...wtopic.php?320
    Last edited by Duggy; 25th October 2015 at 15:39.

  8. #578
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    Aug 2010
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    London Fulham
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    Not sure that those who had to fly through the Alps rather than over them and also flying at the mercy of flak due to low ceiling capability would agree?

    Great photos

  9. #579
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    Hi all

    Some more progress to report:

    Thanks to SAPA Profiles UK, who kindly donated the time and materials, we now have sufficient lengths of special extrusion for the outer bomb bay keel structure. These are aysmmetrical 'U' section channel which attaches to the bottom of the bomb frames and which the outer bomb doors are attached. These are an integral part of the bomb bay structure without which we cannot proceed to the build stage.
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  10. #580
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    John,

    That's a good pointer to how long this is going to be!

  11. #581
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    That is some nice progress.
    Edging closer to a good start. Would be nice to see a substantial cockpit structure evolve.
    Looking forward to meeting you next weekend John.
    Cheers
    Cees

  12. #582
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    Dec 2003
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    1,445
    Quote Originally Posted by CeBro View Post
    That is some nice progress.
    Edging closer to a good start. Would be nice to see a substantial cockpit structure evolve.
    Looking forward to meeting you next weekend John.
    Cheers
    Cees
    Hi Cees,
    If you are meeting John on saturday, then I'll be with him!

    It will be good to meet you too.

  13. #583
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    Hi David,
    That is great news!. I will be at the HK Models/Large Scale Modellers stand promoting and discussing the 1/32 Lancaster which is under development (yeah, I know, there is no Halifax.....yet).
    Looking forward to meeting you both.
    Cees

  14. #584
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    cambridgeshire
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    Hi Cees

    Will definitely pop over to see you.

    As David points out, seeing the extrusion laid out on the floor certainly brings home the size of the aircraft. the longer length pieces are pretty much the length of the bomb bay from Frame 5......to the transport joint at Frame 26 It's another 15 feet or so from there to the rear of the bomb bay not forgetting the length of the fuselage forward of Frame 5. What have we let ourselves in for?????

    John

  15. #585
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    Bit late to change the project into a Lancaster now.
    Much easier, less interesting
    Cees

  16. #586
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    Apr 2007
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    cambridgeshire
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    Hi all

    Busy few weeks for the Project. Last week we were guests of the Bomber Command Special Interest Group at the IPMS Nationals at Telford. We took the 1st Pilots seat and throttle box (Work in Progress), both of which generated a lot of interest and raised some welcome funds for the project.

    Latterly we have taken delivery of some more parts for the throttle box and rudder pedal assemblies. The throttle box parts have been alluded to previously (see post #534) and have been kindly manufactured FOC by Cambridge Precision Ltd along with those for the rudder pedals. The throttle parts in particular were a monumental task for them as they were very complex machining requiring special fixtures to hold them in place. The pics below will give some idea of the complexity and amount of work they have undertaken on our behalf; well done chaps!

    John
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  17. #587
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    Nice work, probably better than the original ones.

  18. #588
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    Happy New Year to you all.

    Lots of 'stuff' on the go at the moment: The rudder pedal assembly recently acquired from Air Ministry have been stripped down and is being prepared for re-assembly alongside the new build ones for the 2nd pilot. Throttle box is now about 90% complete, just needing some intricate machining work on the throttle lever cam followers and the starter panel.

    CAD work on the cockpit coupe is also progressing well as can be seen below

    John
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by 12jaguar; 2nd January 2016 at 19:13.

  19. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12jaguar View Post
    Happy New Year to you all.

    Lots of 'stuff' on the go at the moment: The rudder pedal assembly recently acquired from Air Ministry have been stripped down and is being prepared for re-assembly alongside the new build ones for the 2nd pilot. Throttle box is now about 90% complete, just needing some intricate machining work on the throttle lever cam followers and the starter panel.

    CAD work on the cockpit coupe is also progressing well as can be seen below

    John
    It is a very difficult shape to reproduce. The minor surviving parts of this don't join up, and the changes in curvature from one end to the other/side-to-side is quite subtle. Even having the top escape hatch, part of the side lower window channel, both DV quarter panels, and a piece of the central strip has been difficult to piece together.

    Added to that, each piece of the finished CAD model will actually be an aluminium casting in reality, so each part will then need some adjustment for casting shrinkage tolerance!

  20. #590
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    As David says, this is a 3D jigsaw with most of the parts missing and with poor pictures to follow to recreate it and to boot one of the most visible and crucial parts of the build

    John

  21. #591
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    Running along side, one of the pulley blocks for the top controls channel of the coupe.

  22. #592
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    Sorry Kev, forgot to mention the Stirling work (sorry) that you've done in measuring up and recreating the casting patterns

    John

  23. #593
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    Kev - that is a really impressive casting - well done on making such a good pattern.

  24. #594
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    Indeed that's very impressive progress alround. Well done guys!


    Rob

  25. #595
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    Nov 2014
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    cheered up now, thanks guys . spent a couple of hours on the rear pulley block today.

  26. #596
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    John/David,

    Did you also had the items from BK710 such as the brow section and part of the lower canopy framing. When I got it the latter up from the lake it looked quite complicated.
    Cees

  27. #597
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    367
    Quote Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
    cheered up now, thanks guys . spent a couple of hours on the rear pulley block today.
    Hi Kev

    I don't know much about casting but I have been wondering why - if you have a CAD drawing - you don't make your mould tool as a 3D plastic print? I assume that all you do is surround it with sand then remove the tool? Sorry if that's not right (or simply if it's just more fun to make the tool yourself!).

    Also you mentioned (elsewhere) compensating for shrinkage - if you drew what you needed on CAD could you not then just scale the model up to make it that little bit larger for the plastic print and so compensate for shrinkage? This has the advantage that if you made the tool a little too large or a little too small (or a little bit wrong) then changing by a mm or so would take about 3 minutes in your CAD program - whittling or increasing your current tool looks like an undesireable task (which reminds me of recently trying to fit a side panel to my bath!)

    If you made a 3D print of each part you could also have a dry run assembly of the whole thing before casting.

    While I'm spending your money - you might consider having parts you want to copy 3D scanned so you get an accurate CAD drawing without lifting a ruler! You could 'repair' or restore missing/damaged/distorted parts of your item in the CAD program. Possibly a scanning company might do the scanning for free given the Charity status of The Stirling Aircraft Project?


    James
    Last edited by jamesinnewcastl; 4th January 2016 at 14:25.

  28. #598
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeBro View Post
    John/David,

    Did you also had the items from BK710 such as the brow section and part of the lower canopy framing. When I got it the latter up from the lake it looked quite complicated.
    Cees
    Yes, thanks Cees. Pino has been using these to measure and create the CAD assembly for this coupe. In the mean time I'm preparing the fuselage jig CAD model.

  29. #599
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    Dec 2003
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    1,445
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesinnewcastl View Post
    Hi Kev

    I don't know much about casting but I have been wondering why - if you have a CAD drawing - you don't make your mould tool as a 3D plastic print? I assume that all you do is surround it with sand then remove the tool? Sorry if that's not right (or simply if it's just more fun to make the tool yourself!).

    Also you mentioned (elsewhere) compensating for shrinkage - if you drew what you needed on CAD could you not then just scale the model up to make it that little bit larger for the plastic print and so compensate for shrinkage? This has the advantage that if you made the tool a little too large or a little too small then changing by a mm or so would take about 3 minutes in your CAD program - whittling or increasing your current tool looks like an undesireable task (which reminds me of recently trying to fit a side panel to my bath!)

    If you made a 3D print of each part you could also have a dry run assembly of the whole thing before casting.

    While I'm spending your money - you might consider having parts you want to copy 3D scanned so you get the CAD drawing without lifting a ruler! You could 'repair' or restore parts in the CAD program.


    James
    Hi James,

    There is a case for 3D rapid casting some parts. I have found based on experience that some parts can be made easier, cheaper and quicker using traditional pattern making methods. Other parts lend themselves to rapid production better. You have to look at each on on a case-by-case basis.

  30. #600
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    165
    Hi James, Dave has pretty much hit the nail on the head there. We are unable to dismantle the exhibits that contain these pulley blocks and the blocks themselves are twisted from the impact. I made them by carefuly measuring the originals and forming a pattern which is around 2.5 percent bigger than the finished piece. It came out very well with regard width etc.
    it was tricky but enjoyable following in the footsteps of the craftsman who made the first ones. The casting was out sourced.
    With problems like these sometimes you need to think 2016 and sometimes you need to think 1939. Kev

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