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Thread: Pakistan Air Force

  1. #121
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    PAF does seem desperate not to get stuck with chinese avionics. What all radars are they considering? Griffo, RC400 any other european radar? Won't integrating chinese missiles be an issue on european radars?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
    PRC hasn't made their counter offer yet. They will offer something better when the competition for the 2nd batch of JF-17s come along.
    By the time the second batch comes the PAF may have something even better from Euro vendors. If the PRCs equipment was good enough in this case, I doubt an international tender would even be called.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncho View Post
    PAF does seem desperate not to get stuck with chinese avionics. What all radars are they considering? Griffo, RC400 any other european radar? Won't integrating chinese missiles be an issue on european radars?
    In an interview published within the last year (sorry, can't remember the magazine) one of the top PAF officers (sorry, again I can't remember - but there's a post on this forum quoting him) said that the first batch of 50 will have a mechanically-scanned radar, & mentioned RC400 & Grifo as possibilities, but they were looking at the possibility of an AESA radar for later batches.

  4. #124
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    Yes I do remember selex or something being mentioned, but I doubt PAF is in any state to procure them soon given the current political and economic scenario. I guess the decision was taken after reports of LCA with El-2052 started circulating on the forums.

  5. #125
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    What is the strength and composition of Pakistan's helicopter fleet as of today? (Both AF and Army)

  6. #126
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    PAF doesn't operate helis only PA does.

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    This is what i have from the interview which is being refered to here. I don't think anyone is disatisfied with Chinese package and European option seems to be more geared towards AESA. And ACM also mentions the reason for AESA (which is certainly not the "news of LCA getting AESA on forums" )

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_76 View Post
    By the time the second batch comes the PAF may have something even better from Euro vendors. If the PRCs equipment was good enough in this case, I doubt an international tender would even be called.
    Yeah, but there was also such a tender for the first 50. Everyone thought it was going to be Grifo until late 2004. So, it's just up to PAF to give PRC its requirements. Also, having Western competition will just force PRC to offer more advanced stuff.
    Yes I do remember selex or something being mentioned, but I doubt PAF is in any state to procure them soon given the current political and economic scenario. I guess the decision was taken after reports of LCA with El-2052 started circulating on the forums.
    I'm sure they are looking over their options carefully. Although, having AESA does not necessarily mean better. If you take a look at Vixen brochure, it really isn't that impressive.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_76 View Post
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    Sumeets id was hacked, check your PM.
    Got your PM today, could you send the same thing to the Webmaster? He can unblock a user, I can't.

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  10. #130
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    I have read that the PAF will opt for models with both a Chinese radar and the French radar with their respective weapons. Can anyone list the speculated capabilities of these radars?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyukyuRhymer View Post
    I have read that the PAF will opt for models with both a Chinese radar and the French radar with their respective weapons. Can anyone list the speculated capabilities of these radars?
    http://www.thalesgroup.com/all/pdf/rc400.pdf

    Google: Thales RC-400
    and you will find more!
    Last edited by Sens; 5th December 2007 at 21:35.

  12. #132
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    ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's political upheaval is unlikely to affect a USD284-million deal for acquiring 700 air-to-air missiles from a US company, the manufacturer has said.

    Raytheon Missile Systems, which is based in Arizona, signed its biggest-ever international deal with Pakistan under which it will supply 500 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles, or AMRAAMs, and 200 AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles.

    Paul Nisbet, a Raytheon analyst with JSA Research Inc, said action against US arms sales to Pakistan was unlikely. "Politics very seldom has anything to do with changing the contract," he was quoted as saying by a newspaper.

    Raytheon's deal with Pakistan marks the largest single international AMRAAM sale. The deal will be completed in 2008. The US government will buy the missiles from Raytheon and then supply them to Pakistan under its Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme.
    Any defence purchases by foreign governments, such as Pakistan's, have to be cleared by the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency.

    The FMS programme, Nisbet said, is intended "to partly shield the company from the politics" and to help countries that don't have the "capability of monitoring these very complex contracts".
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  13. #133
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    http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=35836

    Updated at Monday, January 21, 2008 1410 PST


    ISLAMABAD: A joint production of Pak-China JF-17 thunder jet would be started at Kamra from tomorrow (Tuesday).

    Launching ceremony of JF-17 sub assemblies to be held at Pakistan Aeronautical complex Kamra tomorrow. Air Chief Marshal Tanveer Mahmood Ahmed will be the chief guest.
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  14. #134
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    PAF to induct 8 JF-17 Thunder aircraft by year-end: Air chief

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=12464



    KAMRA: The Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed on Tuesday said the PAF would induct eight JF-17 Thunder aircraft by the end of this year.

    Addressing the launching ceremony for manufacturing of JF-17 Thunder sub-Assemblies, marking formal assembling of the fighter aircraft, at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said around 60 per cent of the frame of the aircraft and up to 80 per cent of the avionics to be fitted in the aircraft would be manufactured in the country by 2010.

    He said the PAC had plans to make the JF-17 Thunder the world's first weapon system that will be able to carry all types of conventional weapons targeting from air to air, air to ground, air to sea and to pound from the air.

    He said this state-of-the-art, multipurpose, light combat aircraft, would be a complete combination of fighter and a weapon system, which would also have optional capability to carry non-conventional weapons. He said the PAF would induct 150 aircraft in its inventory in the first phase, in accordance with the already signed agreement with the Chinese company, cooperating with Pakistan in assembling and manufacturing the aircraft.

    "Still we will require some 100 aircraft, as the PAC envisages to take the yearly assembly and manufacturing capability of the aircraft from at present eight aircraft to 15, then up to 25 by 2011," he said. Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed said: "All JF-17 Thunders will be produced in Pakistan as the PAC has achieved the capability to assemble, paint the frame and aircraft besides conducting flight tests."

    He said on March 23, (Pakistan Day) the indigenously assembled aircraft would take part in the fly past, a routine feature of the Pakistan Day parade of PAF. He said around 40 to 50 aircraft would have avionics of Chinese origin while in the next batch these would have indigenously developed avionics. He said in the next decade, the aircraft would be available for re-export through China and the share in the financial receipts would be paid to Pakistan.

    After formal inauguration of the sub-assemblies of the aircraft, the air chief told media persons that the PAC in the next two years would achieve the capability to make the fighter a "warfare suite" that would match the needs of most of the countries in the sector.

    He said the alphabets "J & F" included as title of the aircraft denoting "Joint Fighter" and "we will prove that this Joint Fighter is the best available in the market." He thanked the friendly country of China for extending all cooperation enabling Pakistan to achieve the cherished goal towards manufacturing of a fighter aircraft.

    He said the JF-17 Thunder was a living example of Pakistan-China friendship and this will help further deepen the bonds existed between both the brotherly and friendly countries. Terming it a landmark achievement, he said it is not only a source of pride for Pakistan but also a measure of rare distinction for the country to have joined a selected group of nations having indigenous fighter aircraft production capability.

    The project launched in 2000 has already made major strides, including first flight of prototype in August 2003, then in April 2004, and on May 10 2006 with fully integrated configurations.

  15. #135
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    Nice to see some photos of this flypast happening today.

  16. #136
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    Another 6 JF-17's inducted

    Not sure if this has previously been posted but just came across this news item. Another 6 JF-17s delivered to PAF bringing the total count to 8.

    http://www.dawn.com/2008/03/15/top8.htm


    PAF gets six JF-17 Thunder aircraft
    By Iftikhar A. Khan
    ISLAMABAD, March 14: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has received another six JF-17 Thunder aircraft from China. Two such aircraft were received earlier.

    According to an official announcement, the aircraft have been inducted into the PAF for test and evaluation flight at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra.

    Four of the aircraft will participate in the Pakistan Day fly-past on March 23.

    JF-17 Thunder aircraft is an advanced multi-role light combat aircraft jointly developed by China and Pakistan under a strategic collaboration project.

    The aircraft is designed to be cost-effective and can meet the tactical and strategic needs of the PAF.

    A source in the PAF told Dawn that the serial production of JF-17 Thunder has already started and the production capacity would be gradually taken to 25 aircraft per year by 2011.

    He said that about 60 per cent of the aircraft’s frame and 80 per cent of its avionics would be manufactured in Pakistan by 2010.

    He said the first 50 aircraft would have avionics of Chinese origin while the next batch would be fitted with indigenously-developed avionics and European radars.

    Pakistan had begun negotiations with British and Italian defence firms over potential avionics and other systems for JF-17.

    He said the PAF would induct 150 aircraft into its inventory in the first phase, under an agreement with the Chinese company, and the total induction could go up to 250.

    The JF-17 will replace Pakistan’s MiG-21-derived Chengdu F-7, Nanchang A-5 and Mirage III/V currently in service.

    Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe have each placed orders as well. Nine other countries which have expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 are Bangladesh, Myanmar, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sri Lanka and Algeria.

  17. #137
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    Jf-17's on display in Islamabad -- 23-03-08
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  18. #138
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    those smoky RD-33s make it look like they were done specially for the show..

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Ankush View Post
    those smoky RD-33s make it look like they were done specially for the show..
    I'm sure the producers / developers are well aware of this issue - and will find solutions beyond the prototypes - perhaps using the Chinese engine that has been developed for the JF-17.-- Better to get planes in the air for weapons integration / training - with a smokey engine -- than keep the type on the drawing board waiting for a smokeless engine. The fact that these aircraft are flying over Islamabad - with Russian RD-33's, smokey or not - is an achievement in itself and has forced many a would be analyst to eat his words.

    The JF-17 looks like a vicous little fighter.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Ankush View Post
    those smoky RD-33s make it look like they were done specially for the show..
    Thats because they were. Past pictures of the JF17 have not shown anything like that level of smoke. In face, none of the pictures I have seen of the production version JF17 are showing exhaust smoke at all.

    What more, people who have seen the flypast live have reported that there was no smoke until just before the planes started its 'split' manuver.
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  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by plawolf View Post
    Thats because they were. Past pictures of the JF17 have not shown anything like that level of smoke.
    The smoke varies according to throttle setting.
    In face, none of the pictures I have seen of the production version JF17 are showing exhaust smoke at all.

    What more, people who have seen the flypast live have reported that there was no smoke until just before the planes started its 'split' manuver.
    But speaking in general terms RD-33 engines are smokier by comparison to others.
    Last edited by RayR; 25th March 2008 at 03:51.
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  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayrubik View Post
    The smoke varies according to throttle setting.

    But speaking in general terms RD-33 engines are smokier by comparison to others.
    The JF17 uses the RD93 not 33. And it has been widely reported that the improved version used in the JF17 is smokeless, and so far all pictures of production version Thunders would seem to back this up.

    Besides, your throttle setting explaintion just plainly doesn't make sense. The RD33 tends to smoke when flying at low speeds, but that picture shows the planes doing a 'split' manoeuvre, which requires a major increase in engine power. The engines would stop smoking when doing it, not start to smoke.
    the true power of religion does not lie with the deity, it lies with the priests.

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Ankush View Post
    those smoky RD-33s make it look like they were done specially for the show..
    Don't forget India also has Mig-29 using RD-33 engines, are u bashing yr own beloved country choice of fighter? Stop making senseless issue of FC-1 engine being smoky. Can't u see it an air show and smoke is neccessary to display the flight path. Smoky issue was solved long ago....
    Last edited by Showtime 100; 25th March 2008 at 06:23.
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  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by plawolf View Post
    The JF17 uses the RD93 not 33.
    I know.
    And it has been widely reported that the improved version used in the JF17 is smokeless, and so far all pictures of production version Thunders would seem to back this up.
    Smokeless is a relative term.
    Besides, your throttle setting explaintion just plainly doesn't make sense. The RD33 tends to smoke when flying at low speeds, but that picture shows the planes doing a 'split' manoeuvre, which requires a major increase in engine power. The engines would stop smoking when doing it, not start to smoke
    .
    The engines smoke towards the top end of dry thrust.
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  25. #145
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    I think the first Horizon for the PAF will be rolled-out any day now... thought I would post this pic of the self defense kit. Hope it's not a repost. Don't know if all of it is all on the PAF planes but according to Saab's webpage self-defense and EWS is standard on the Saab 2000 version.

    Also the PAF Horizons will be equipped with extra cabin fueltanks for even longer endurance. These tanks are integrated with the normal fuel system so there's no extra handling required.

    (Ps. Horizon is the Saab name for Saab 2000 with Erieye so maybe the PAF will rename it...)

    Last edited by signatory; 25th March 2008 at 16:41.

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime 100 View Post
    Don't forget India also has Mig-29 using RD-33 engines, are u bashing yr own beloved country choice of fighter? Stop making senseless issue of FC-1 engine being smoky. Can't u see it an air show and smoke is neccessary to display the flight path. Smoky issue was solved long ago....
    stop bull****ting..everyone knows that the MiG-29s engines are smoky..I just pointed out how smoky those FC-1s are as well..

    as for airshows, the smoke is from canisters on the wingtips, not the engine nozzle.. just accept the fact that the RD-33 series or its derivatives have smoky combustors..the newer RD-33MK3s on the MiG-29K are the only ones where a very conscious effort was made to take care of the combustor.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Ankush View Post
    stop bull****ting..everyone knows that the MiG-29s engines are smoky..I just pointed out how smoky those FC-1s are as well..

    as for airshows, the smoke is from canisters on the wingtips, not the engine nozzle.. just accept the fact that the RD-33 series or its derivatives have smoky combustors..the newer RD-33MK3s on the MiG-29K are the only ones where a very conscious effort was made to take care of the combustor.

    I seriously pity u that u never got a chance to attend an air show and never see an air show pictures. Now I show u something,ok?

    Btw, I know Indian know nuts abt Mig-29 and can't do any modification without Russkie help. That's why they can't get rid of the smoky trail of their Mig-29.. While FC-1 is totally done by Pakistan and China. That is the main different. Yr jet is smoky doesn't mean mine desoite using the same engine..
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    Last edited by Showtime 100; 26th March 2008 at 02:22.
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    you want to compare that Thunderbird F-16s smoke contrails to the smoky engine exhaust of the FC-1 ? I thought that it would be ridiculous if a Pakistani tried to pass off that exhaust as a deliberate show trick, but it turns out thats exactly what a dud like you would try to do !!

    As for Pakistani help on the FC-1, I'm guessing you're referring to the paint..best quality paint in the world !

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21Ankush View Post
    you want to compare that Thunderbird F-16s smoke contrails to the smoky engine exhaust of the FC-1 ? I thought that it would be ridiculous if a Pakistani tried to pass off that exhaust as a deliberate show trick, but it turns out thats exactly what a dud like you would try to do !!

    As for Pakistani help on the FC-1, I'm guessing you're referring to the paint..best quality paint in the world !

    I thought someone say air show smoke will only from wingtip and when proven, it can came from nozzle engine. He switches his tone. How can we trust such indecisive person words? I sense great sour grapes!
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  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showtime 100 View Post
    I seriously pity u that u never got a chance to attend an air show and never see an air show pictures. Now I show u something,ok?

    Btw, I know Indian know nuts abt Mig-29 and can't do any modification without Russkie help. That's why they can't get rid of the smoky trail of their Mig-29.. While FC-1 is totally done by Pakistan and China. That is the main different. Yr jet is smoky doesn't mean mine desoite using the same engine..
    What has Pakistan developed on FC-1? Are there any genuine Pakistani systems?

    Flamers say away, i want a serious explanation.

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