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Thread: Slovak Air Force thread

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijmeijer

    And something about the L-39. Aero rebuilt six Slovak L-39 aircraft. The old airframe was replaced by a new airframe (c/n 5251, 5252, 5253, 5254, 5301 and 5302). Which six Slovak L-39 aircraft where involved?
    And any tie-ups?


    Regrads,
    Jeroen Nijmeijer
    Holland
    Almost all L-39C "White Albatrosses" got new airframes during the overhaul in 1996/97. Because of irreparable cracks which were found in their airframes. The bort numbers remained the same. AFAIK no tie-ups exist, the parts were bought from Aero.


    What would you like to know about the Slovak Mig-29?


    Regards
    Martinez
    <Find a job you like doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life>

  2. #32
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    The 6829 prior to going public at Sliac Open Day
    The 4401 immediately after overhaul (do not touch, the paint is still fresh!)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinez
    Almost all L-39C "White Albatrosses" got new airframes during the overhaul in 1996/97. Because of irreparable cracks which were found in their airframes. The bort numbers remained the same. AFAIK no tie-ups exist, the parts were bought from Aero.

    What would you like to know about the Slovak Mig-29?

    Regards
    Martinez
    What I'd really love to know is, what is the current status of the MiG-29UB 1303 Tiger. I got no more access to Slovak AF since my moving to Germany but the machine seems to have disappeared from public somehow.

  4. #34
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by flex297
    7501 - 1st batch of 9.12A, ex-Czechoslovakia, 2. SLP, 4-tone brown/green/dark green/sand camo, later white/red/blue stripes, it is probably this machine, that has been damaged beyond repair whilst being pulled over 10 g
    8003 - 1st batch of 9.12A, ex-Czechoslovakia, 2. SLP, 4-tone brown/green/dark green/sand camo

    etc.

    4401 - 1st batch of 9.51A, ex-Czechoslovakia, 2. SLP, 4-tone brown/green/dark green/sand camo, overhauled at LOT Trencin, given new white/grey livery
    1303 - 2nd batch of ex-Russian 9.51, 1. SLP, 2-tone green/grey camo, later painted in Tiger scheme
    5304 - ex-Russian 9.51, stars still visible under Slovak badges, green/grey camo, the green is somewhat darker than usually seen

    All machines of 9.12 standard (2nd batch) can carry underwings bags, the 9.12A can only use underbelly tank
    Thanks
    But I have some corrections and additions

    First the orignal Czechoslovak MiG-29:
    Code:
    S/n	        Del     C/n   	        L/n
    7501		jun89	2960526375	3901
    7702		jun89	2960526377	
    8003		jun89	2960526380	
    8304		jun89	2960526383	
    8605		jun89	2960526386	
    8906		jun89	2960526389	
    9207		jun89	2960526392	
    9308		jun89	2960526393	
    3709		jun89	2960532037	4202 ?
    3810		sep89	2960532038	4203
    3911		sep89	2960532039	4204
    4012		sep89	2960532040	4205 ?
    5113		sep89	2960532351	4212
    5414		sep89	2960532354	4214 ?
    5515		sep89	2960532355	4215
    5616		sep89	2960532356	4301 ?
    5817		sep89	2960532358	
    5918		sep89	2960532359	
    4401		apr89	N50903013244	
    4402		sep89	N50903014528
    And the ex Czechoslovak and new Slovak machines:

    Code:
    S/n	        Del     C/n   	        L/n
    7501		jan93	2960526375	3901
    8003		jan93	2960526380	
    8605		jan93	2960526386	
    9308		jan93	2960526393	
    3709		jan93	2960532037	4202 ?
    3911		jan93	2960532039	4204
    5113		jan93	2960532351	4212
    5515		jan93	2960532355	4215
    5817		jan93	2960532358	
    0619		dec94	2960535406	4713 ?
    0820		dec94	2960535408	4714
    0921		dec94	2960535409	4715 ?
    2022		dec94	2960536020	4801
    2123		dec94	2960536021	4802
    6124		dec95	2960536061	
    6425		dec95	2960536064	4905
    6526		dec95	2960536065	4906
    6627		dec95	2960536066	4907 ?
    6728		dec95	2960536067	4908
    6829		dec95	2960536068	4909
    6930		dec95	2960536069	4910
    4401		jan93	N50903013244	
    1303		dec94	N50903028113	
    5304		dec95	N50903028253
    But what about the yet unknown linenumbers, exact delivery dates and mfd info :diablo:


    Regrads,
    Jeroen Nijmeijer

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by flex297
    What I'd really love to know is, what is the current status of the MiG-29UB 1303 Tiger. I got no more access to Slovak AF since my moving to Germany but the machine seems to have disappeared from public somehow.
    Currently staying at the TOP and undergoes the SLEP program. The SlovakAF want to use all three trainers for a certain time period.

    Regards
    Martinez
    <Find a job you like doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life>

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinez
    Almost all L-39C "White Albatrosses" got new airframes during the overhaul in 1996/97. Because of irreparable cracks which were found in their airframes. The bort numbers remained the same. AFAIK no tie-ups exist, the parts were bought from Aero.


    What would you like to know about the Slovak Mig-29?


    Regards
    Martinez
    So, someone has to check the c/n plates in the rear cockpit :diablo:


    Rgd,
    Jeroen Nijmeijer

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinez
    Currently staying at the TOP and undergoes the SLEP program. The SlovakAF want to use all three trainers for a certain time period.

    Regards
    Martinez
    What about the Israeli and Russian workers, are they still on Sliac?
    What exactly is being upgraded at the time?

  8. #38
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    Thumbs up Slovak Fishbeds

    Great thread, Guys, and some really interesting info: thanks, Flex, Jeroen and Martinez.

    Jeroen, what was the thought behind the list of Fishbeds you posted as I thought the current whereabouts/fate of almost all of those was pretty much known?

    The Fishbeds that I'm not aware of recent sightings for are the following:

    7706 MiG-21MF
    7715 MiG-21MF
    9404 MiG-21MF
    9406 MiG-21MF
    9710 MiG-21MF
    9714 MiG-21MF
    9813 MiG-21MF
    9814 MiG-21MF
    9815 MiG-21MF

    3176 MiG-21UM Sold Abroad (but to where?!)

    Most of the MiG-21MF I've listed above are the ones that raised suspicions in certain people who follow such movements of hardware around the globe as much as they can.

    Any info you have on any of these would be very much appreciated, Martinez: many thanks in advance.

    Keep up the good work, Chaps!


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijmeijer
    So, someone has to check the c/n plates in the rear cockpit :diablo:


    Rgd,
    Jeroen Nijmeijer
    Didn't Aero assign the same c/ns to the aircraft though? i think that's what Martinez means by his post too....

    I didn't realise that Aero "manipulated" their c/n series until a large number that I had seen at Vodochody that were due to go to Nigeria finished up with the Algerian AF and were all given "new" c/ns for the changed customer.

    If there are two sets of c/ns for the Slovak L-39s that were rebuilt then, yes, it would be great to have them both.

    Best regards


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Touchdown
    Great thread, Guys, and some really interesting info: thanks, Flex, Jeroen and Martinez.
    Lets hope this is a start for some good research work

    Jeroen, what was the thought behind the list of Fishbeds you posted as I thought the current whereabouts/fate of almost all of those was pretty much known?
    I had no "fate" of these Slovak MiG-21 aircraft in my database

    The Fishbeds that I'm not aware of recent sightings for are the following:

    7706 MiG-21MF
    7715 MiG-21MF
    9404 MiG-21MF
    9406 MiG-21MF
    9710 MiG-21MF
    9714 MiG-21MF
    9813 MiG-21MF
    9814 MiG-21MF
    9815 MiG-21MF

    3176 MiG-21UM Sold Abroad (but to where?!)

    Most of the MiG-21MF I've listed above are the ones that raised suspicions in certain people who follow such movements of hardware around the globe as much as they can.
    I Am not yet up-to-date with all the new Mil, MiG & Sukhoi movements

    Any info you have on any of these would be very much appreciated, Martinez: many thanks in advance.
    Keep up the good work, Chaps!
    And not forget the mfd, del, wfu info etc. :diablo:

    Regards,
    Jeroen Nijmeijer

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Touchdown

    The Fishbeds that I'm not aware of recent sightings for are the following:

    7706 MiG-21MF scraped 1998, photo evidence exists.
    7715 MiG-21MF scraped 1998
    9404 MiG-21MF Private gatherer in Presov 1999, photo evidence exists, sold abroad.
    9406 MiG-21MF scraped 1998, photo evidence exists.
    9710 MiG-21MF scraped 1998, photo evidence exists.
    9714 MiG-21MF scraped 1998
    9813 MiG-21MF scraped 1998, photo evidence exists
    9814 MiG-21MF Private gatherer in Presov 1999, photo evidence exists, sold abroad.
    9815 MiG-21MF scraped 1998, photo evidence exists.

    3176 MiG-21UM Sold Abroad (but to where?!), two double seaters went to Australia, this could be the first one, I`ll check it again.

    Most of the MiG-21MF I've listed above are the ones that raised suspicions in certain people who follow such movements of hardware around the globe as much as they can.

    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
    I hope not to dissapoint you guys, but you are making an elephant from a fly!...
    <Find a job you like doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life>

  12. #42
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by martinez
    I hope not to dissapoint you guys, but you are making an elephant from a fly!...
    Many thanks for the information, Martinez, but I think you misunderstand the thought processes behind it if you think any of us might be "disappointed"!

    I'm happy to accept completely that all of those Fishbeds were scrapped at Sliac during 1998, but there are two things that still remain 100% illogical:

    1) Why scrap the last-built/lowest hour Fishbeds when, during 1998, the Air Force were actively seeking buyers for them?!

    2) The Slovak MoD made a statement themselves saying it would cost something like $3,000 per aircraft to scrap the surplus MiG-21 fleet, which was money they didn't have: so why do it, what was the point?

    Maybe I just don't understand contradictory statements and illogical use of scarce funds when it serves no purpose except to a beer can manufacturer :diablo:

    Sad as seeing any dissected fighter jet is, I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who would love to see the "photo evidence" if it's available!

    Best regards


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

    p.s. I guess that, yeah, I'm a little disappointed there are a few less Fishbeds in the World when I think of it that way, as they're are definitely one of my favourite aircraft

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijmeijer
    Lets hope this is a start for some good research work
    Agreed!


    I had no "fate" of these Slovak MiG-21 aircraft in my database
    Best answer there could possibly be! Scramble's database is always worth checking for their Slovak stuff as that is kept pretty much up-to-date.

    Keep up the good work!


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Touchdown
    Agreed!

    Best answer there could possibly be! Scramble's database is always worth checking for their Slovak stuff as that is kept pretty much up-to-date.

    Keep up the good work!
    Maybe we could start a special MiG & Sukhoi "c/n-thread"
    There is still much to reaserch in those former WP countries.
    And of course all those other MiG and Sukhoi countries in the world :diablo:

    Lets start with Iraq?


    Regards,
    Jeroen Nijmeijer

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Touchdown
    Many thanks for the information, Martinez, but I think you misunderstand the thought processes behind it if you think any of us might be "disappointed"!

    I'm happy to accept completely that all of those Fishbeds were scrapped at Sliac during 1998, but there are two things that still remain 100% illogical:

    1) Why scrap the last-built/lowest hour Fishbeds when, during 1998, the Air Force were actively seeking buyers for them?!

    2) The Slovak MoD made a statement themselves saying it would cost something like $3,000 per aircraft to scrap the surplus MiG-21 fleet, which was money they didn't have: so why do it, what was the point?

    Maybe I just don't understand contradictory statements and illogical use of scarce funds when it serves no purpose except to a beer can manufacturer :diablo:

    p.s. I guess that, yeah, I'm a little disappointed there are a few less Fishbeds in the World when I think of it that way, as they're are definitely one of my favourite aircraft

    Come on Steve, you have been speculating about Slovak Fishbed deals since beggining, haven`t you?....
    If I told you that they had gone to North Korea. Wouldn`t you be happier anyway?
    Surely I would be happier if they could fly the next decade somewhere.

    Yes, you are not aware of many things, therefore it sounds illogical to you. From technical point of view your`re not even right when you said "last-built/lowest hour Fishbeds".
    <Find a job you like doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life>

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Touchdown
    Agreed!




    Best answer there could possibly be! Scramble's database is always worth checking for their Slovak stuff as that is kept pretty much up-to-date.

    Keep up the good work!


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

    Guys, have you ever seen (photos of) those fishbeds at Sliac? You would know things, even the Scramble doesn`t know....
    Anyway ,those guys at Scramble are the craziest I have ever seen. I met them once on an airshow. Simply put, maniacs.
    regards
    Martinez
    <Find a job you like doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life>

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Touchdown
    Many thanks for the information, Martinez, but I think you misunderstand the thought processes behind it if you think any of us might be "disappointed"!

    I'm happy to accept completely that all of those Fishbeds were scrapped at Sliac during 1998, but there are two things that still remain 100% illogical:

    1) Why scrap the last-built/lowest hour Fishbeds when, during 1998, the Air Force were actively seeking buyers for them?!

    2) The Slovak MoD made a statement themselves saying it would cost something like $3,000 per aircraft to scrap the surplus MiG-21 fleet, which was money they didn't have: so why do it, what was the point?

    Maybe I just don't understand contradictory statements and illogical use of scarce funds when it serves no purpose except to a beer can manufacturer :diablo:

    Sad as seeing any dissected fighter jet is, I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who would love to see the "photo evidence" if it's available!

    Best regards


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

    p.s. I guess that, yeah, I'm a little disappointed there are a few less Fishbeds in the World when I think of it that way, as they're are definitely one of my favourite aircraft

    Some of those Fishbeds we are talking about were extensively flown at the 9.slp, 5.slp, 4.slp, 1.lsp and in early nineties they ran out time to overhaul. The other dozen were freshly overhauled in LO Kbely during 1992-93, before Czechoslovakia splited. The LO Trencin could not overhaul Mig-21 and the closest factory overhauling Migs was the LO KBELY(Czech republic). The overhaul should become expensive. All those Fishbeds were produced in 1974. The lifetime was declared up to 30 year. For example the 7706 was grounded in 1994 as a faulty aircraft while the others were grounded in 1995-1997. Also they had to scrap some "flightworthy" Fishbeds to fulfill CFE Treaty. Selling military aircrafts is an arkward....a different story.
    But at first you must realize the major problem in Slovak AF since 1993. Very small number of pilots, technicians and a lot of Fishbeds.

    regards
    Martinez
    <Find a job you like doing, and you'll never have to work a day in your life>

  18. #48
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    Thanks, Martinez, that all makes perfect sense: I wasn't aware of the finer details of Slovakia's CFE obligations as I assumed they were well below the limits of combat aircraft that they were entitled to maintain.

    Quote Originally Posted by martinez
    Guys, have you ever seen (photos of) those fishbeds at Sliac?
    Sure, I've seen quite a few photos of the withdrawn Fishbeds parked at Sliac. I've also seen them with my own eyes twice, but the first time was in 2000, by which point the ones I asked about had gone.

    Have I seen photos of any Fishbeds in the process of being scrapped at Sliac? No, and hadn't realised there was "photo evidence" until you mentioned it so, yeah, I'd love to see it if you have copies please

    Speculating is a healthy aspect of this hobby! Do I actually believe that ex-Slovak Fishbeds finished-up in Korea? No, I actually don't. Tom Cooper and I had some correspondence over these same MiGs before he published his African MiG book though, in 2002 if I remember correctly. At the time I had a feeling that some may have found their way to Angola, as with the Fitter sales.

    As you are no doubt well-informed about the activities at LOT then you'll also know about ex-Kyrgyz Mi-24 Hinds, although I'm sure many her may not:

    http://hrw.org/reports/2004/slovakia0204/2.htm

    Going back to an earlier posting in the thread, one thing I would really appreciate greatly are the bort numbers for the ex-Bulgarian L-29s if they are known. Thanks in advance!

    Best regards


    Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

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