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Thread: Help please with early aircraft engine possibly 1920s or earlier

  1. #1
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    Help please with early aircraft engine possibly 1920s or earlier

    Hi again
    Would anyone have any ideas on this early designed radial possible rotary type aircraft engine? It is a 5 cylinder type but a part from that I haven't a clue. I was told possibly it could be 1920s.

    I intend to clean this over the coming weeks so hopefully I might come across some numbers that may help with its identity, also this is extremely heavy.

    So any engine specialists please help as It would be nice to identify this nice engine section with con rods, gears and main shaft.

    Thank you once again in advance.
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    Last edited by hawker1966; 8th July 2018 at 12:55.

  2. #2
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    My first guess is it's an Armstrong Siddeley Genet. Can you tell us where it's come from?

    John

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    Hi John Aeroclub
    Thank you for replying as im pretty stuck on this one, as the majority of the radials on the net do not appear to show the internals, i thought being a 5 cylinder engine it would help narrow it down.

    The propeller shaft does look the same splinding as the Armstrong Siddeley Ganet

    Not sure that this will help but i purchased it from an aero jumble in Peterborough.
    Last edited by hawker1966; 8th July 2018 at 18:40.

  4. #4
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    I feel John aeroclub has found its identity as these two links below show images that are pretty close to mine

    //static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/5/2/7/1/8/9/a8535136-228-as_genetmajor_front_right2.JPG

    //static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/5/2/7/1/8/9/a8529993-189-as_genet_1_parts.jpg

    Below is a list of aircraft powered by the Siddely Armstrong Genet, one other question was the major a similar engine or completey different?
    Avro 618 Ten
    Avro Avian prototype
    Blackburn Bluebird I
    BFW M.23
    Cierva autogyros. C.9 and C.10
    Drzewiecki JD-2
    Fleet Fawn
    Junkers A50 Junior
    Medwecki and Nowakowski M.N.5
    Saro Cutty Sark
    Southern Martlet
    Westland-Hill Pterodactyl
    DH.60 Genet Moth
    Last edited by hawker1966; 8th July 2018 at 20:17.

  5. #5
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    A month of 15/85 molasses followed by some Kroil would have that all loosened up
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  6. #6
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    Genet I, II or IIA? There are some useful photos of the I - but not the II or IIA - in Alec Lumsden's 'British Piston Aero-engines and their Aircraft'.

  7. #7
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    I think that it's the smallest of the five cylinder Genet's. Can you confirm that the Master con rod is a one piece unit, held in by a large gudgeon/crank pin. The early Genet had the top cylinder vertical and on the later Genet Major (available as a five or seven cylinder engine) the lower cylinder was vertical. It could be that it's a five cylinder Mongoose but I think that engine had a two piece master rod like the Lynx. If your Master rod has bolts at the base to hold the lower bearing cap into place then it's a Mongoose.

    The rear bearing does look a bit like that of the Mongoose. It's no good me asking for any dimensions as I don't have the manual or any internal data.

    John

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    Hi john
    Thank you for coming back to the thread it appears you certainly no what your talking about, would these photos help? If not I'm taking it to work to clean the dust etc of it, I could take some better photos in day light.
    Brad
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  9. #9
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    I'm sure that someone will be popping up, who is familiar with the Armstrong engines. I'm still thinking Genet 1. The bevel gear is the Magneto drive and the other planetary gears and lobes are for the valve timing.
    A photo with an object of known size would be interesting.

    John

  10. #10
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    A photo with an object of known size would be interesting.
    Most useful is the *UMD* .. Universal Measuring Device: A coke/pepsi can.
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  11. #11
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    Youngsters=grrr. Lay a ruler in the picture!
    old gitt

  12. #12
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    LOL! I'm 58 & a 1/3 & everyone knows the size of the coke can without having to work out if the ruler is 6in, 12in, yardstick or metric etc..

    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  13. #13
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    Im having trouble finding a coke can will a dr pepper do?

    Joking apart im have trouble uploading photos for some reason but will post with can at the ready as soon as im able.

  14. #14
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    Hi
    A few more photos as asked with a good old measuring aid,also some numbers on the weights
    Hopefully this may help towards confirming its identity
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  15. #15
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    I still think it's a Genet 1 crank and rods. The stamped words confirm that it's probably British. If you can measure the throw of the crank from the centre of the prop shaft to the centre of the Master rod gudgeon pin, then this will give us a bit more info. The Genet 1 had a 4" stroke and the Major was 4.5" and I think the Mongoose was 5.5".

    John

  16. #16
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    Given that a 12oz/355ml Dr Pepper can is not quite 5in tall (4 7/8th or 4.875in for you decimal types, or an RCH under 124mm) I'd say the crank throw is closer to 4in than 5
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  17. #17
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    The way those brass balance-weights are bolted to the crankshaft webs looks a lot like an Armstrong-Siddeley Cheetah balance-weight, but not a Cheetah, obviously!
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 12th July 2018 at 22:44.
    WA$.

  18. #18
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    Just to throw a spanner in the works the throw is 2 and a half inches
    Any ideas?

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    Which would make the stroke five inches; are you sure the throw isn't 2.25 or 2.75 inches?
    WA$.

  20. #20
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    Looking a little more accurate now I have a better measuring tool I would say it's 2 inches from the centre of the prop shaft to the centre of the master rod gudgeon, sorry for the confusion, so would that make it Genet 1?

    Interesting in regards to the Cheetah but I guess they are a part of the same family.

  21. #21
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    Cheetah balance-weight:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    WA$.

  22. #22
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    How similar is that thanks for sending the photo, so anyone have a final verdict or suggestions who to ask for help?

  23. #23
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    It is Armstrong Siddeley and I still back my first guess at a Genet 1. or as we don't have a precise crank throw a Genet II. Both engines were used in many UK light planes, many of which were scrapped during the war and i think that the post war Gatwick dump had some Genet engined types.

    It would be interesting to know where your vendor acquired it. Armstrong's used quite a bit of standardization, for instance the Mongoose, Lynx and Jaguar shared the same cylinder.. A Genet II engined Fleet Finch was stored in a garage on the A.1 at Closterworth. (between Peterborough and Grantham).

    John

  24. #24
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    It must be quite a rare beast; how many Genet I / Genet II engines were produced?
    WA$.

  25. #25
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    Hi Creaking Door
    Like you say i would imagine that it is pretty rare engine whether its Genet or Mongoose.

    The more i attempt to measure from the centre of the prop shaft to the centre of the master rod gudgeon it comes out different as attempting to do this with a rule is difficult to get its true reading, as the gudgeon pin hole is as you can see is slightly covered any suggestions on getting the correct measurement?

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