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Thread: Joint BAE Systems/SAAB 6-Gen Fighter Program

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Joint BAE Systems/SAAB 6-Gen Fighter Program

    Not sure if this has been posted...

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-h...collaboration/

  2. #2
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    Ah you beat me to it.

    Great news and certainly something which could prove very good for both countries.

  3. #3
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    Not to break the ambiance, but i spoke one year ago with Sweden Chief of staff and SAAB representatives at swaf fans meeting (can't go this year, in England ). Saab did not think about any fiture plane as Gripen is not yet operational.

  4. #4
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    There was a similar sentiment around Rafale until recently .

    Unless the Swedish plan to keep the E in service beyond 2040, and aren't interested in the sort of systems the UK are looking at, I think there is something to it.

    UK interest in networked fighter UCAV fleets is in line with Swedish thinking too.

    It also promises greater workshare than the French and Germans will offer.

  5. #5
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    Not to break the ambiance, but i spoke one year ago with Sweden Chief of staff and SAAB representatives at swaf fans meeting (can't go this year, in England ). Saab did not think about any fiture plane as Gripen is not yet operational.
    Wrong. There have been loads of articles from Saab here in the Swedish press about the future. Saab is thinking heavily about what will come after Gripen and which project and studies they now will have take part in for being relevant. Both the UK and the Franco/German project have been talked about and Håkan Buskhe have said that he speaks with he's european colleuges about these things very often.

    Both Saab and SWAF is aware that Gripen E is only artificial breathing until a new generation can come to life, even if they will never admit this officialy.

    It also promises greater workshare than the French and Germans will offer.
    This is my thinking also. France have now been giving the leading roll it wanted for so long, no way they are going to let the UK in on a top level. The Franco/German thing will without doubt be a Thales and Safran creation.
    Last edited by JakobS; 5th July 2018 at 18:58.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    Not to break the ambiance, but i spoke one year ago with Sweden Chief of staff and SAAB representatives at swaf fans meeting (can't go this year, in England ). Saab did not think about any fiture plane as Gripen is not yet operational.
    SAAB has been working on a follow on capability for the best part of a decade, thats pretty much public.
    The Flygvapnet fields six front line sqns, ordered sixty "E" with a possible follow on order of twelve airframes, not enough to maintain their fleet, that means that the C/D's will soldier on untill being replaced by... something... circa 2040 (I supose)

    Cheers

  7. #7
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    Is it truly a 6th generation airplane?

    To determine if is a 6th generation airplane, you must be able to define the requirements for a 6th generation airplane.

    Is it intended to fly though an IADS equipped with the latest high end SAMs such as Thaad, S-400/500, Arrow/Stunner, or the inevitable PLA super SAM?

    Is it intended to fly missions from bases far beyond the reach of IRBMs which would devastate a nearby airbase?

    To do the above would require an airplane capable of Mach 3 at 28km altitude, possess a 3200km combat radius, and carry no less than 12 missiles with multi-mode sensors, a multi-purpose warhead and programmable fuze.

    Is Sweden really going to pay for such an expensive airplane whose purpose is to violate the airspace of a major power? Lol. I think not. It Saab/BAE posturing in an attempt to overcome lackluster sales and stand out in the marketplace when EU has no stomach for such things..

  8. #8
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    Don't be so hard. 6th gen is marketing bs obviously but more at the attention of taxpayers that were told for years that's stagnation was the new pinnacle of moving forward and 5th gen was LM propaganda. Now they want to build something that will stand a chance to better the then old f-35: a 5th+ gen aircraft called a 6th gen not to embarrass anyone*.

    Last, I wonder how BAE and Saab will re conciliate the expectations drafted in a UK/Japan cooperation: a large fighter is not a nimble low cost one. So, expect two different airframe (and some great synergies!) or an announcement that the joint UK/Japan effort is... Dead.


    *until it can prove to be a true dogfighter, for sure we can call it a dodge one!
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 6th July 2018 at 03:56.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcross View Post
    Is it truly a 6th generation airplane?

    To determine if is a 6th generation airplane, you must be able to define the requirements for a 6th generation airplane.
    Yes, it depends on your definition of fighter generations.
    In Swedens case, you have J 21, J 29, J 32, J 35, J 37, JAS 39. So that would make a hypothetical JAS 41 a 7th gen. plane. Probably better not to count the J 32 though since it was mainly an attacker (as the number 32 implies) / night fighter used alongside other fighters. So there you have it, the Gripen replacement is truly a 6th gen fighter jet.

    Or to put it in other words, this generations talk is nonsense.
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  10. #10
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    SAAB has been working on a follow on capability for the best part of a decade, thats pretty much public.
    The Flygvapnet fields six front line sqns, ordered sixty "E" with a possible follow on order of twelve airframes, not enough to maintain their fleet, that means that the C/D's will soldier on untill being replaced by... something... circa 2040 (I supose)
    I can only talked about i was told there. And i xas said (asking aout efcas btw) no, no follow on until Gripen E is operational. Whatever public says.

    WAnt a photo in pm?

  11. #11
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    I can only talked about i was told there. And i xas said (asking aout efcas btw) no, no follow on until Gripen E is operational. Whatever public says.

    WAnt a photo in pm?
    No need, i perfectly believe in you, and what i wrote complement your text above, they are not mutually exclusive. Thing is the Gripen E will be delivered next year, will get IOC in two years, the Swedes only ordered enough airframes to cover part of their Sqns and if they want to replace the rest this is the time to start looking for a possible follow on, all this dovetails nicely with the SAAB chaps talking with the likes of BAE, Airbus, Dassault and so on.

  12. #12
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    I don't think that it is right to rush into a 6th generation fighter just yet, we don't even know what the requirements of such a fighter would be.

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