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Thread: Turkey's newly announced 300+ metre STOBAR Aircraft carrier

  1. #61
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glendora View Post
    If it’s really modfied to such a degree, good luck with the F-35B you referred in your limk, if Turkey will ever get them. I assume you know what is the maximum payload of the F-35B in Vertical take off.




    So your bombastic original post about a STOBAR (btw the links you provided referred just to the construction of a dry dock, which could be used i.e. for commercial and cruise vessels, nothing more) was incorrect?
    Now you talk about a 300+ m STOVL carrier. Such a pity, the QE class is just 280 m, I thougt that the most advanced shipbuilders and engineers in the world could have squeezed something more then UK with 20 m more in lenght.
    Reread the entire post before commenting.

    Reference was made to 3 separate vessels:

    TCG Anadolu (LHD/Light Carrier)- under advance stages of construction
    TCG Trakya (LHD/Light Carrier)- Contract to be signed
    300+ metre CV proper - (STOVL)- newly announced

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Dear Bayar, the problem is not that we don’t like the discussion, but merely that fact what you are presenting, the way you present these information and most of all that – I would say with a lot of nationalistic fewer included – a normal decent discussion is simply not possible:

    You are a presenting completely illusion plans, projects a country like the USA, Russia and China or multinational projects by the EU can barely manage with their budget and their vast expertise and experience and you even more present timelines and a budget, no one with the slightest sense of logic and understanding in aerospace matters would rate possible.

    You are presenting lists of projects ranging from stealth fighters, trainers, transports, helicopters, AUVS, UCAVs and carriers that even the biggest aerospace countries have issues to manage and finance and you are presenting them as it would be some sort of plug-and-play.

    One has to remember – and that’s not to diminish any Turkish achievements – but a fact: so far Turkey has not developed and fielded any significant major project on their own, none: No combat aircraft, no transport, no helicopter , … in fact NOTHING. All TAI so far has done was participating in local co-production and / or license manufacturing.

    So I beg you to stay realistic and accept that there are not few who remain most skeptical on what will ever happen.

    These projects – in fact – NONE could be taken seriously.




    Even more you are oversimplifying the political background: the current path president Erdogan follows is most likely wrong, this playing one side against the other with the UE, USA and Russia will never ever ease the situation and make such projects even more unlikely to come to fruition. And that’s my third point of concern …
    With respect Deino,

    (1) Lack of experience does not mean Turkey cannot have such programs nor does it mean that such programs will be a total and utter failure.
    (2) Co-production and licence production of platforms are achievements in and of itself which lead to indigenous programs.

    I'll show you how Turkey is doing this by giving Turkish Aerospace Industries and TUSAS Engine Industries as an example. Both the aforementioned companies were incorporated for licence production of the F-16 and General Electric F110. After the F-16 programs were completed both companies became OEM parts manufactures for other major defense companies. In the 1990's, the companies then moved onto licenced production and co-production of parts for major international programs such as the Airbus A400m. In the early 2000's, these two companies began to purchase intellectual property rights for existing disused platforms such as the AgustaWestland A-129 Magoosta and the upgrade them using subsystems designed, developed and produced by Turkish companies. With these programs these companies obtained experience with integration of sub-systems into complex platform. Subsequent to the success with this model, both Turkish Aerospace Industries and TUSAS Engine Industries commenced their own indigenous programs for combat aircraft and helicopter.

    The below shows how Turkey went from having zero experience with helicopter production to becoming and indigenous designer and producer of both rotary wing aircraft and turbo shaft engines.

    Turkey went from parts producer, to licence production of the T-120 (Agusta Westland A-129), T-70 (Sikorsky S-70i) and LHTEC T800 engine to indigenous platforms such as the T-130, T-625, 10 Ton Utility Helicopter and TEI TS-1400 Turbo-shaft engine!

    Licenced Production Programs

    T-129- Coproduction deal with AgustaWestland (now Leonardo)



    TURKISH UTILITY HELICOPTER PROGRAM- T-70 (Coproduction/Licence production deal with Sikorsky for S-70i)


    Turkish Aerospace Industries Indigenous Helicopter Programs

    TAI T-130 ATAK 2- See https://www.tai.com.tr/en/product/atak-2



    TAI 10 Ton Utility Helicopter- See https://www.tai.com.tr/en/product/10...ity-helicopter



    TAI 625- See https://www.tai.com.tr/en/products/helicopter



    Indigenous Turbo-shaft Engine Program and Development



    TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine for Indigenous Helicopters

    Last edited by Bayar; 27th May 2018 at 14:54.

  3. #63
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    Reread the entire post before commenting.

    Reference was made to 3 separate vessels:

    TCG Anadolu (LHD/Light Carrier)- under advance stages of construction
    TCG Trakya (LHD/Light Carrier)- Contract to be signed
    300+ metre CV proper - (STOVL)- newly announced
    I read and standed all the idiocy you wrote in this thread, which shows once again that you don’t know nothing about aerospace or military navy.

    The only thing useful was the link you provided to c4defence which was informative of Anadolu, twin ship, Trakya.

    Unfortunatelly you wrote after:

    Turkey’s TCG Anadolu is a highly modified derivative of the Juan Carlos class LHD designed as a light VTOL carrier- it cannot not operate STOVL aircraft.
    which contradicts the infromation from c4defence. Again, good luck with 2 ships only VTOL capable, which means basically helos.

  4. #64
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  5. #65
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    With respect Deino,

    (1) Lack of experience does not mean Turkey cannot have such programs nor does it mean that such programs will be a total and utter failure.
    (2) Co-production and licence production of platforms are achievements in and of itself which lead to indigenous programs.

    In return with the same respect ... and YES, I know but my point stands:

    That's the way it goes but not with the number of projects in parallel at the given budget and even more unlikely within that mentioned timeframe.

    Just look at the trainer T-X: when the first blurred image was leaked you were immediately jumping it is the prototype soon ready to fly, later it came out it was only a mock up and you replied that won't matter since the true prototype is also close to being finished ... now - several months passed by - nothing happened and it seems quite to the contrary the design was changed several times in the meantime, is still not finalised and all these announcements to see a maiden flight in 2018, flight testing ended in 2012/21 and service entry soon thereafter are nothing more than hot air.

    The same with the 6t heli and even more with the new 10t heli and combat type. ... these are all vapour ware; nothing more and IMO I expect either TAI concentrates on one or two projects or all will fail.

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  6. #66
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    Turkish Government issues formal tender for AIRCRAFT ARRESTING SYSTEMS (AAS) technology.

    It intends to begin development efforts for the 300+ metre Aircraft Carrier arresting system for STOL aircraft. This will most likely be for land based testing and development phase.

    See formal tender document in English: https://www.ssm.gov.tr/Images/Upload...0632000492.pdf
    Last edited by Bayar; 4th June 2018 at 04:55.

  7. #67
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    this is incorrect
    Turkey has stated it will aim for a catobar system

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Turkish Government issues formal tender for AIRCRAFT ARRESTING SYSTEMS (AAS) technology.

    It intends to begin development efforts for the 300+ metre Aircraft Carrier arresting system for STOL aircraft. This will most likely be for land based testing and development phase.

    See formal tender document in English: https://www.ssm.gov.tr/Images/Upload...0632000492.pdf
    You realize that some air bases have arresting systems too, right? Did you also note that the system is requested by the Turkish Air Force?

    But of course, Turkey, which is still a few years from launching it’s LHD (built with plans and technical assistance from Navantia) is ordering these arresting systems for a table model 300+ meter carrier. Got it.

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