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Thread: 2018 F-35 News and Discussion

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by bring_it_on View Post
    • URF (minus the engine) estimate of the F-35A dropped from $67.7 Million (2012) to $67.6 Million, that of the F-35B increased from $77.1 Million to $77.4 Million and that of the F-35C increased from $78.1 To $78.7

    The URF estimate of the CTOL engine remain unchanged, that of the STOVL system went from $26.7 Million to $26.8, while that of the CV went from $11 Million to $11.1 Million. All in 2012 dollars.
    Interesting. That works out to a combined URF of $78.7 mil (2012) which adjusted for inflation is about $85 mil.

  2. #182
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    Do you have a link for the SAR?
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  3. #183
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    Spud - https://www.scribd.com/document/3757...port-FY19-2017

    Interesting. That works out to a combined URF of $78.7 mil (2012) which adjusted for inflation is about $85 mil.
    Roughly although this would be using standard inflation and not the DOD indices and formula. But URF here is that for the program so this was expected. The more expensive aircraft only made/make up 300-350 or so deliveries out of a total expected in the thousand because the average URF also factors in around 750 non US aircraft (FMS and partner) so if one looks at the bigger picture current LRIP deliveries which are $90 million or more only make up a very small percentage given the total aircraft produced # used for the estimate.

    The DoD average F-35 Aircraft Unit Recurring Flyaway (URF) Cost consists of the Hardware (Airframe, Vehicle Systems,
    Mission Systems, and Engineering Change Order) costs over the life of the program. The URF assumes the quantity
    benefits of 132 FMS aircraft and 609 International Partner aircraft.

    The current estimate for F-35 total procurement quantity increase from 2443 to 2456 has not changed from SAR 2016 to
    SAR 2017. This increase was the result of two changes: a USMC variant mixture change between the F-35B and F-35C (13
    additional F-35Bs and 13 less F-35Cs), and the Department of Navy (DoN) decision to continue to procure a total of 340 F-
    35C aircraft. This results in a net increase of 13 F-35B aircraft. The increase is reflected in both the aircraft and engine
    subprogram and results in a change from 680 to 693 in the DoN Aircraft Procurement accounts. The USMC validated their
    requirement through the Marine Corps Requirements Oversight Council (MROC).

    F-35A (Conventional Take Off and Landing) URF - $67.6M (BY 2012)
    F-35B (Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing) URF - $77.4M (BY 2012)
    F-35C (Carrier Variant) URF - $78.7M (BY 2012)


    The DoD average F-35 Engine Unit Recurring Flyaway (URF) Cost consists of the Hardware (Propulsion and Engineering
    Change Order) costs over the life of the program. The URF assumes the quantity benefits of 132 FMS engines and 609
    International Partner engines.

    The current estimate for F-35 total procurement quantity increase from 2443 to 2456 has not changed from SAR 2016 to
    SAR 2017. This increase was the result of two changes: a USMC variant mixture change between the F-35B and F-35C (13
    additional F-35Bs and 13 less F-35Cs), and the Department of Navy (DoN) decision to continue to procure a total of 340 F-
    35C aircraft. This results in a net increase of 13 F-35B aircraft. The increase is reflected in both the aircraft and engine
    subprogram and results in a change from 680 to 693 in the DoN Aircraft Procurement accounts. The USMC validated their
    requirement through the Marine Corps Requirements Oversight Council (MROC).

    F-35A (Conventional Take Off and Landing) URF - $10.9M (BY 2012)
    F-35B (Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing) URF - $26.8M (BY 2012)
    F-35C (Carrier Variant) URF - $11.1M (BY 2012
    )
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 7th April 2018 at 11:34.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  4. #184
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    Thanks for the link. One thing that I noticed is that the USMC is shifting 13 F-35Cs to F-35Bs.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  5. #185
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    Yeah I noticed that too but I just assumed that this happened in the previous SAR given that no one really mentioned it during the hearings or in the media.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  6. #186
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    Last year's only mentioned the additional 13 F-35B and not that they were changing the version form the C

    The current estimate for F-35 total procurement quantity increased from 2443 to 2456. This is the result of an increase of 13 F-35B aircraft to be procured by the United States Marine Corps (USMC). The increase is reflected in both the aircraft and engine subprogram and results in a change from 680 to 693 in the Department of Navy Aircraft Procurement accounts. The USMC validated this requirement through the Marine Corps Requirements Oversight Council (MROC). The additional aircraft are fully funded and the funding is reflected in the FY 2018 President's Budget submission. The additional aircraft were added after the completion of the congressionally directed Department-wide fighter mix study.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  7. #187
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    It helps the Navy to ramp-up their in-service number IMO (Given that the Marines have reverted from their priority to phase out the classical Hornet, their only airframe doing the Navy carrier mission).

  8. #188
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    MacDill Air Force Base, Fla., April 4, 2018. The purpose of the two-day visit was to inform CENTCOM senior leadership on the capabilities and limitations of the F-35B platform before it enters the CENTCOM area of responsibility.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  9. #189
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    Raytheon’s Joint Standoff Weapon integrated into the Navy’s F-35


    NATIONAL HARBOR, Maryland — Raytheon is set to announce that its Joint Standoff Weapon’s C variant has been successfully integrated into the internal weapons bay of the the Navy variant of the F-35.

    A recent test of the JSOW C demonstrated that the weapon could be toted inside the F-35C and deploy seamlessly. The weapon will move directly into an operational test, a step before being declared ready for use in combat, said Mark Borup, with Raytheon’s Missile Systems division.

    The weapon was integrated with the F/A-18 Super Hornet and achieved operational status in June of 2016. Because of the existing test data on the weapon from the Super Hornet tests, the Navy was comfortable hurrying along the integration process.

    “The Navy deemed that, with all of the other tests on other platforms ... that the one test would be sufficient to certify it to move on to operational test,” Borup said. “Because it is a mature system, with lots of recent test data ... what they really needed to do was make sure that it could operate from end-to-end from an F-35 without any issues and it passed all of those tests.”

    The JSOW C has a 70-plus mile range and is used for medium-range engagements with anything from air defenses to reinforced concrete structures.

    The weapon integrates both GPS-targeted and an infrared seeker.

    The Navy’s F-35C has a number of weapons lined up that its supposed to be able to operate with.

    Once configured with 3F software that enables full warfighting capability, an F-35C will be able to carry five different weapons inside of its internal weapons bays: JSOW, GBU-31/32 Joint Direct Attack Munitions, AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) and GBU-12 Paveway II bombs.

    The F-35 program itself could be headed towards a shake-up, moving away from a highly centralized joint program office and towards service-specific offices.

    In a March 27 letter to Congress, the Pentagon’s top acquisition official acknowledged that splitting up the F-35 management into smaller offices is likely the way to go for the future of the Pentagon’s largest acquisition program.

    But exactly when such a transformation will occur was not defined in the letter written by Ellen Lord, undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, and the expectation in the Pentagon is that it could happen within the next several years.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  10. #190
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    ..
    The amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1) steams in formation during bilateral drills with the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force.
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    Last edited by bring_it_on; 11th April 2018 at 00:31.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  11. #191
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    One thing to keep in mind about the JSOW integration is that it's the full JSOW-C1 version and not the baseline JSOW-C that was previously planned for 3F. The JSOW-C1 was originaly planned for Block 4.x
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  12. #192
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    Exclusive: Pentagon stops accepting F-35 jets from Lockheed over repair cost dispute
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...mpression=true

  13. #193
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    Secretary Mattis hired a tough AT&L and given she is from the industry she knows that optics do matter in forcing public companies to take notice. If prior contract negotiations weren't making headway, stopping deliveries having aircraft rapidly pile up will make Lockheed reconsider its position.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  14. #194
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    Remember, back then the rumors were that the F-35 was a pig. The first time the opponents showed up [in the training area] they had wing tanks along with a bunch of missiles. I guess they figured that being in a dirty configuration wouldn’t really matter and that they would still easily outmaneuver us. By the end of the week, though, they had dropped their wing tanks, transitioned to a single centerline fuel tank and were still doing everything they could not to get gunned by us. A week later they stripped the jets clean of all external stores, which made the BFM fights interesting, to say the least…
    So what I'm reading is it took a clean F-16 for it to be able to compete with F-35 in a dog fight... amazing.

  15. #195
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    F-35 Completes Most Comprehensive Flight Test Program In Aviation History

    NAVAL AIR STATION PATUXENT RIVER, Md., April 12, 2018 - The F-35 program has accomplished the final developmental test flight of the System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase of the program.

    “Completing F-35 SDD flight test is the culmination of years of hard work and dedication from the joint government and industry team,” said Vice Adm. Mat Winter, F-35 Program Executive Officer. “Since the first flight of AA-1 in 2006, the developmental flight test program has operated for more than 11 years mishap-free, conducting more than 9,200 sorties, accumulating over 17,000 flight hours, and executing more than 65,000 test points to verify the design, durability, software, sensors, weapons capability and performance for all three F-35 variants. Congratulations to our F-35 Test Team and the broader F-35 Enterprise for delivering this new powerful and decisive capability to the warfighter.”

    The final SDD flight occurred April 11, 2018 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md., when Navy test aircraft CF-2 completed a mission to collect loads data while carrying external 2,000-pound GBU-31 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) and AIM-9X Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles.

    From flight sciences to mission systems testing, the critical work completed by F-35 test teams cleared the way for the Block 3F capability to be delivered to the operational warfighter. More than a thousand SDD flight test engineers, maintainers, pilots and support personnel took the three variants of the F-35 to their full flight envelope to test aircraft performance and flying qualities. The test team conducted 6 at-sea detachments and performed more than 1,500 vertical landing tests on the F-35B variant. The developmental flight test team completed 183 Weapon Separation Tests; 46 Weapons Delivery Accuracy tests; 33 Mission Effectiveness tests, which included numerous multi-ship missions of up to eight F-35s against advanced threats.

    “The F-35 flight test program represents the most comprehensive, rigorous and the safest developmental flight test program in aviation history,” said Greg Ulmer, Lockheed Martin’s vice president and general manager of the F-35 program. “The joint government and industry team demonstrated exceptional collaboration and expertise, and the results have given the men and women who fly the F-35 great confidence in its transformational capability.”

    Developmental flight test is a key component of the F-35 program’s SDD phase, which will formally be completed following an Operational Test and Evaluation and a Department of Defense decision to go into full-rate aircraft production.

    While SDD required flight test is now complete, F-35 flight testing continues in support of phased capability improvements and modernization of the F-35 air system. This effort is part of the Joint Program Office’s Continuous Capability Development and Delivery (C2D2) framework, which will provide timely, affordable incremental warfighting capability improvements to maintain joint air dominance against evolving threats to the United States and its allies.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 12th April 2018 at 17:16.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  16. #196
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  17. #197
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    Of course you have the naysayers

    "Perhaps more worrying is the fact that, despite gathering data on more than 65,000 test points, the F-35 program only met this much delayed SDD flight test schedule by deleting additional test points and accepting potentially flawed data. According to DOT&E, significant numbers of test flights involved aircraft with earlier editions of the critical, but troublesome onboard mission software, among other things, which may not reflect the actual capabilities of the stealth fighters as they exist now.

    Even with the latest iteration of the Block 3F software package, which Lockheed Martin and the Air Force both touted as providing “full combat capability,” there were dozens of known deficiencies remaining as of September 2017, which was when the reporting period for DOT&E’s most recent review ended. Some of those affect weapon accuracy, such as a persistent error that causes the F-35A’s internal 25mm cannon to reportedly still shoot to the right of the pilot’s point of aim."

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20 ... quirements

    "Lockheed Martin does not even expect to have finished installing production-representative software and other modifications on the entire fleet of 23 operational test F-35s until August 2018, according to DOT&E. In addition, thanks to a process known as concurrency, the U.S. military already owns hundreds of F-35s that could also need costly modifications or end up relegated to secondary, non-combat roles. Even then, problems with earlier systems mean that those older aircraft have some of the lowest availability rates. In March 2018, U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant General Steven Rudder, the service's Deputy Commandant for Aviation, told members of Congress that, on average, less than 40 percent of his F-35Bs with the older Block 2B were mission capable at any one time."

  18. #198
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    Lol... For those "they may never get updated" crowd.., 11 have been updated so far.

    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  19. #199
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    Test points are added and deleted throughout the test-program. The folks running the testing have the authority to do this and this is built in because it is not possible to accurately determine 100% of the testing requirements during the master plan development process. They are also not yet at a point where they want to think about outsourcing it out to the media or bloggers.

    Spud has shared the upgrade plan in the past as well and they are upgrading aircraft as we speak. Another point worth remembering is that the world does not operate on DOT&Es reporting cycle. Hundreds, if not thousands of folks do not simply go home after the DOTE writes his/her report. They continue to work through the process of fielding capability, debugging =and doing the testing required to assess this capability. This is exactly what they did here as the finished their developmental testing in support of 3F.

    During this process, they would have also determined which open orders and rectifications they could move over because they were either not critical, or if critical, would not impact the operational capability to such an extent that it had to be done in an urgent fashion. That will be rolled into the FOD just as it is on practically every other program since this is an iterative and continuous process. They end and move on when they have determined that they have done sufficient testing to ensure that the program clears IOT&E. It won't be perfect but no new block is..it always takes a little bit of time to hammer out and rectify things that pop up but as testers who work towards a schedule and objective (i.e. fielding a capability and handing it over to the ops testers) they end as soon as they are confident that they can demonstrate operational capability through the IOT&E. The next sub-blocks and software upgrades will hit the operational fleet even before IOTE is complete so they are only formally ending one chapter but not giving up on developing or refining capability.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 13th April 2018 at 18:56.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  20. #200
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    One of the things that came out recently was that there is a C2D2 drop coming this June. I'll try finding a source.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  21. #201
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    Yeah the plan is to do it every few months. Even ALIS 4.0 is currently scheduled to drop during IOT&E with 4.1 dropping a few months after IOTE has concluded. On the hardware side, the improved helmet will also drop while IOT&E is being held and there will likely be other minor upgrades elsewhere during this time. The complete of SDD flight testing is a milestone, and not the end of development..the developers and the dev. testers will continue to support the program in the short and long term.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  22. #202
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    UK F-35B Lightning conducts first air-air refuelling with RAF Voyager tanker over Eastern US.



    Source:
    Savetheroyalnavy.org via FB
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th April 2018 at 15:47.

  23. #203
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    ..
    PHILIPPINE SEA (April 12, 2018) The guided-missile destroyer USS Dewey (DDG 105) receives fuel from the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1) during a fueling-at-sea (FAS). Wasp and its expeditionary strike group (ESG) are operating in the Indo-Pacific region to enhance interoperability with partners, serve as a ready-response force for any type of contingency and advance the up-gunned ESG concept. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Taylor King/Released)
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    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  24. #204
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    UK re-forms 617 Sqn for F-35B era


    The Royal Air Force's 617 Sqn – the UK's first frontline unit to field the Lockheed Martin F-35B – has been officially re-formed during a ceremony in Washington DC.

    Staffed by a mix of RAF and Royal Navy pilots and support personnel, lead elements of 617 Sqn are currently involved in training at MCAS Beaufort in South Carolina, using the UK's current 15 short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) Lightning IIs.

    The Ministry of Defence says the UK's first F-35Bs will arrive at the type's home base at RAF Marham in Norfolk "this summer", with the service having previously outlined plans to transfer nine jets from the USA with support from Airbus Defence & Space A330 Voyager tanker/transports.Initial operational capability for the F-35B is scheduled to be declared in December 2018 for land-based operations and the Lightning II is also to be progressively cleared for use from the RN's two Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers by late 2020.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  25. #205
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    Lockheed Resists $119 Million in Fixes for Its $406 Billion F-35.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...6-billion-f-35

    All is not well in the Billion Dollar land..
    Thanks

  26. #206
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    These are negotiations and are a part and parcel of the back and forth between the OEM who represents the suppliers, and the customer (JPO). In the past both sides have used hard negotiation tactics to drive favorable decisions..LRIP-10 contracts for example, were forced upon Lockheed as they could not agree to a price. Lockheed did not like but there wasn't much they could do about it. The JPO is in a strong position and will likely come on top but these negotiations happen all the time and in all programs..it is just amplified given the sheer size of the F-35 program. "Escapes" and issues related to those are also normal in large production programs both commercial and defense. In this case, the issues were discovered, production halted, fixes designed and implementation scheduled. Now comes the question of who pays what percentage of the cost associated with the same based on the contracts which none of us are privy to.

    In the end the JPO will likely get its pound of flesh (which it should) and the lawyers will be happy. Also note that production is not being halted so the moment this is resolved (which will likely be in the next few weeks) they can deliver all the jets that they have been producing over this time so deliveries this year will likely be close to if not exceed 90 aircraft. One would also be naive if they think that these hard tactics by Ellen lord are just about the payment on these escapes..they are to squeeze Lockheed on other issues that are currently being negotiated such as LRIP-11 and other sustainment issues (rights to some of the software and hardware). From the US A&S's perspective, if she is buying more aircraft this year she should also be able to drive a harder bargain. Her predecessor actually started this by enforcing a unilateral contract award alongside a production/delivery increase.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 20th April 2018 at 12:36.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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    carbon + Aluminium : receipe for epic fail... junior engineer mistake easy to fix, ok).

  28. #208
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    The issue is not about the "Fix", that is already cut into production and was one of the reasons there was a production pause last year. The problem was because as a QC matter, Lockheed had not applied primer to some of the fastner holes on certain production jets. This was discovered on a fleet aircraft, and was further investigated. Lockheed then initiated the required training and workflow changes to make sure that this does not happen in future aircraft and drew up plans to conduct field maintiance/repairs to corect the affected production aircraft. This issue is about who pays for it. All that we are privy to based on the contract awards relates to discoveries and the cost arrangement regarding that. Only the two negotiating parties are privy to the full extent of the contract as it applies to quality escapes.

    This is likely the source of the legal dispute and why the government took the action of stopping to take deliveries in order to apply pressure. As I said earlier, these guys are accutely aware of what impact optics can have on a public company. They obviously hope that the optics of jets lining up and zero deliveries have some imact on the OEM when it gets negative media coverage. Execs also do not like it when they don't meet their delivery targets each quarter. All this impacts shareholder confidence and stock price. So the hope is to acheive a desired negotiated outcome using all the levers available to the government.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  29. #209
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    I understand that. µHonestly "a tempest inside a water glass". Bt however, in order to limit galvanic corrosion, better use titanium (e.g. ) fasteners with carbon fiber. titanium may rust, but better fastener than panel.

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    Loving this thread! sub'd

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