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Thread: Critique Of TIGHAR By Ex-member/Donor

  1. #1
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    Critique Of TIGHAR By Ex-member/Donor

    For the past few decades, TIGHAR (The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery) has called itself a group dedicated to the recovery of historic aircraft, but is best known for its focus on finding Amelia Earhart. More recently, it took up the cause of a P-38 buried on a UK beach, where it remains...despite the group's well publicized taking on the project and raising funds for it. Likewise, it involved itself with the possible recovery of TBD torpedo bombers from the Pacific (also unsuccessful) and the recovery of a B-17E from a New Guinea swamp (the aircraft was eventually recovered by another group seemingly without any TIGHAR help). More recently, the group announced an effort to try to find the plane famous USAAF bandleader Glenn Miller disappeared in.
    In short, after about 30 years and raising millions of dollars as a tax free charity, they haven't recovered a airframe or found what they have looked for.

    Here, Monte Fowler, a 18 year ex-member and substantial donor gives a concise overview of the group. While not a fan of the group, his comments are balanced and objective. Particularly interesting are his comments on the salary and estate paid to the group's founder (and sole employee) and the group's seeming intolerance of any criticism.

    Interesting reading..
    http://myplace.frontier.com/~monty.f...r_analysis.htm

    If nothing else, it takes a big man to admit he gave a group a lot of money without much to show for it.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 5th January 2018 at 20:37.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

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    It does read as in any other sense of gaining funds through deception, ie. Gaining them for specific tasks by donations and spending them elsewhere and reading it, it appears on themselves.... A true example of a self licking lollipop.

    They appear to jump on any bandwagon to self promote themselves, gain revenue, With a load of false / fantastical promises then move on.
    Last edited by TonyT; 5th January 2018 at 21:05.

  3. #3
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    So that is where that crass Maid Of Harlech name came from
    Officially now a pensioner

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    Just as I read it, my opinion from that.

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    Confirms what many already knew or suspected. It would appear from Fowler's statements that many activities would be classed as unlawful or illegal.

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    Tom Delonge,the drummer for the Band "Blink 182" is doing the same with UFO,s..
    https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com/
    "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
    http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

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    A very intereting read. You have to wonder though, how as he go away with it for so long ?
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

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    It's like bad restaurants in tourist locations: plenty of new customers and no repeat business. In this case I think the new customers are snared by a constant drip-feed of 'new' projects.

  9. #9
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    and yet a Lincolnshire farmer has been ripped to bits for doing the same thing but putting his own money up, hats off to him
    SMOKE SMOKE GO!
    TA out

  10. #10
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    That's quite a conceptual leap to link those two.

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  11. #11
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    Not really Moggs just pointing out a man went looking for missing aeroplanes without begging for handouts and actually doing it, thats the link or maybe im an idiot

    (answers on a post card to)
    SMOKE SMOKE GO!
    TA out

  12. #12
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    Why would you be an idiot?

    I think the defining difference is that one is a conman and one just very gullible
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

  13. #13
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    Possibly in a way that was my point, the man with his hands in his pocket gets out there the other just pockets.

    and my main point was all the flack he took doing his own thing with his own money not someone elses hard earned.
    SMOKE SMOKE GO!
    TA out

  14. #14
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    I think we'll leave that as the last word?

    Moggy
    "What you must remember" Flip said "is that nine-tenths of Cattermole's charm lies beneath the surface." Many agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QldSpitty
    Tom Delonge,the drummer for the Band "Blink 182" is doing the same with UFO,s..
    https://dpo.tothestarsacademy.com/
    Alas Tom is the guitarist, rather than the drummer, of Blink 182. The mistake is understandable though, as his bizarre fascination with UFOs and conspiracy theories puts him safely into drummer territory.

    Even in my very limited experience, being in a band is boring. You spend 3% of your time playing music, and the rest of the time is either spent plotting your business strategy or twiddling your thumbs waiting for things to happen (and drummers to turn up). Quite what unique insight into 'Engineering space-time' or 'Beamed energy launch systems' Delonge gained from sitting around waiting to soundcheck is beyond me.


    As for TIGGER, they've done very well for achieving nothing.

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    Ex-guitarist of Blink

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    So that is where that crass Maid Of Harlech name came from

    Actually not. The people of the Kingdom of Gwynedd in Harlech coined the name Maid of Harlech. Gillespie claimed it as if he had named it.

  18. #18
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    Hi All,
    scam
    /skam/
    noun
    informal
    noun: scam; plural noun: scams
    1. a dishonest scheme; a fraud."an insurance scam"
    synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick, diddle; More
    informalcon, con trick, flimflam, gyp, kite;
    informalramp, twist; nformalhustle, grift, shakedown, bunco, boondoggle; informalrort "the scam involved a series of bogus reinsurance deals"

    verb
    verb: scam; 3rd person present: scams; past tense: scammed; past participle: scammed; gerund or present participle: scamming
    1. swindle."a guy that scams old pensioners out of their savings"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fraud/frɔːd/
    noun
    noun: fraud; plural noun: frauds
    wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."he was convicted of fraud"
    synonyms: fraudulence, sharp practice, cheating, swindling, trickery, artifice, deceit, deception, double-dealing, duplicity, treachery, chicanery, skulduggery, imposture, embezzlement; also:- informalmonkey business, funny business, crookedness, hanky-panky, shenanigans, flimflam;
    informaljiggery-pokery; informalmonkeyshines; archaicmanagement - knavery - "his business partner was arrested for fraud"
    •deception, trick, cheat, hoax, subterfuge, stratagem, wile, ruse, artifice, swindle, racket;
    informalscam, con, con trick, rip-off, leg-pull, sting, gyp, kite, diddle, fiddle, swizzle;
    informalbunco, boondoggle, hustle, grift; informalrort - "they were accomplices in a fraud"
    •a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
    "mediums exposed as tricksters and frauds"
    synonyms: impostor, fake, sham, pretender, hoodwinker, masquerader, charlatan, quack, mountebank; More

    The above rings bells just like the bloke who realised to late what was ALLEGDLY really happening, Well meant misguided if flawed activities at best, at worst Fraudulent could be alleged some would say, reading that report of the activities makes for very sad reading indeed......

    Just saying!

    Geoff.
    Last edited by 1batfastard; 6th January 2018 at 21:24.

  19. #19
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    I must admit that I joined Tigar in 1984 as they played up Le Oiseau Blanc search, but after the years membership expired I had seen the light and never renewed.

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    I have been told by someone more familiar with the group than myself, that according to tax records, the group has taken in about $11 million over the years. (If someone has better information, I'm willing to be corrected.)

    Aside from the pity that the group has never recovering a complete aircraft, or even project, let alone finding AE, think what aircraft that money could have saved.
    There are many groups that could have really put that kind of funding to use.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 6th January 2018 at 22:03.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  21. #21
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    I echo those sentiments J Boyle.
    Think of what could have been funded by that money.
    I think R.G. operates under the guise that there is a sucker born every minute.

    Andy

  22. #22
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    Let's hope this thread is seen by journalists and the public when the group starts it's next round of PR/hype/fund raising for their announced search for Miller.

    Too many writers have just accepted the group at face value and forwarded their claims/theories unchecked to the public.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  23. #23
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    Exactly what they count on.
    Prey on the ignorance of the interested but uninformed.

    Andy

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    The TIGHAR Shell Game

    TIGHAR in full flight was a never ending Shell Game.... you would never, ever, find the pea. Looks to be right now though, that the shells might be broken and the pea permanently lost. Monty Fowlers "tell it like it is" has been known to a lot of people for a long time but it takes guts to come out and say you have dropped $50,000 on the Tighar Scientific Methodology shell game only to find that it was all a bunch of crap. Monty left them some time back when the light bulb went on.

    Disagreement with the TIGHAR Leader has always only had one pathway and that was towards the door. Paying Members have been denigrated in public, had their Log-ins cancelled and "moderation " applied until they gave up in disgust.

    Other former members have just bitten their lips, taken the pain and mainly stayed silent, except for a few on another "Mystery" Forum. I have been reading the TIGHAR Forum since 1994 and what has really, really, surprised me out of this whole fiasco is that I have always thought Americans were terrified of the United States Internal Revenue Service.... and here we have a perfect example in TIGHAR where the IRS should be interested in this "Non-profit" organisation but nothing has happened.

    Of late, since TiGHAR made it compulsory to be a paying member in order to "post"on the Forum, weeks go by without any posts at all as if the organisation is mummified, maybe it is. Certainly, it looks as if the search for Earhart , Noonan and the Electra has dropped off in favour of the Glenn Miller attempt at gaining funds and members. Surely an act of desperation

    Fowler's expose says it all. Well done...

    RPM...

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    The International Gillespie Holiday And Recreation fund

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    Speaking of money/renumeration...

    Over on the Aviation Mysteries forum, the group's finances were discussed courtesy of their tax records.

    They seem to show that RG was paid about $200,000 a couple of years ago.
    That is a great deal of money for such a small group, and I believe it's close to what the many times larger EAA pays its leader (who manages many employees and several publications, airshows, museums, etc).

    http://aviationmystery.com/index.php?topic=193.0

    Here is a link to a discussion on their 2016 filing. It seems to indicate what Fowler alluded to in his critique...that on top of a handsome salary, the leader then charges the group rent to keep its files there...

    http://aviationmystery.com/index.php?topic=316.0

    Interesting stuff.
    It should be noted that The group has not disputed anything posted on the Aviation Mysteries forum on this topic.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 9th January 2018 at 03:32.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  27. #27
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    TIGHAR and AVIATION MYSTERIES

    J Boyle says:
    "Interesting stuff.(in regard to TIGHAR's finances and the latest expose...)
    It should be noted that The group has not disputed anything posted on the Aviation Mysteries forum on this topic."

    Nor will He/They respond. Usually there appears a roundabout way of attempting to deflate criticism, usually done by the chief acolyte.

    On the Aviation Mysteries there are two former Moderators, from the TIGHAR Forum, one who criticised the statement that the "Pelvic bone remnant is from Earhart" because the person's Medical Training in the U.S. Forces told him the Dr. Hoodless sketch and dimensions were "Male" and the second because of the "Aluminum patch " which he had been showed proof that it could not be from the Electra even though he had promoted it as such to start with... this led to disagreement with "You know who" and he resigned.

    Both of these persons know what goes on within TIGHAR. TIGHAR May whine a bit and if it becomes too much to bear advice from a lawyer will be sought... Modus Operandi No. 1. That happened at WIX, when the thread "Is tighar still at it ?" got too much to bear... and was on the ball. "AM" has quite a lot of ex-TIGHAR Members, most of whom (Like Monty Fowler) left in disgust.

    Regards,
    RPM...

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    But how long before someone brings a case against Gillespie? There must be some evidence of taking money under false pretences?

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    TIGHAR versus The IRS ?

    Sabrejet asks: "But how long before someone brings a case against Gillespie? There must be some evidence of taking money under false pretences?"

    Already been done... Under one of the links posted by J Boyle (at post #26 above), you will find depositions and witness statements from the Court Case where one donor to TIGHAR (involving $1 M) took TIGHAR to court. The donor named Mr. Mellon also sent a complaint to the IRS (also viewable in the link)..... Nothing has happened as yet. Hence my comment in a post above where i said I had always thought Americans were terrified of an audit by The IRS... maybe the fear of the IRS is a Myth after all.

    At about the time of the Court Case being sprung by Mr. Mellon, a video appeared on YouTube under "Lochaber Equestrian". Lochaber is a place in Scotland where Gillespie's family originally come from and his "leased farm" in Pa. is named "Lochaber Farm" as described by Monty Fowler in the Tell All.... The video is called "Saber Drill " and can be viewed at this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urdi...IYu6Q&index=12

    The connotation that may be drawn, between the target in the video "Saber Drill" and the nominee plaintiff in the Court Case, is amazing....! Happy viewing.... There is also a Flintlock Pistol display to be seen which is somewhat enlightening.... "I like his collection of hats.... he has a thing about hats !"

    Regards,
    RPM...
    Last edited by RPM, FF, TGT...; 9th January 2018 at 16:30.

  30. #30
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    What happened to J Boyles post ?

    J Boyle posted after #29....Whidego ? J Boyle affirmed that US Residents are terrified of IRS Audits.... Is that still correct JB ?

    Rgds,
    RPM...

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