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Thread: Miles Kestrel/Master drawings

  1. #1
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    Miles Kestrel/Master drawings

    Is anyone on the forum a Miles affecionado? If so, I’d be interested to know if any construction drawings exist for the above mentioned Miles Kestrel? Many thanks in anticipation of your replies.

  2. #2
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    Try the RAF Museum, they had a number of Miles metalwork drawings on microfiche.
    Also might be worth trying the guys at Redhill Wings, I believe they had/have some Master wings etc.

    Bob T.

  3. #3
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    Ok thanks Bob T.

  4. #4
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    Might be worth trying the Museum of Berkshire Aviation at Woodley - they have been recreating a Martinet there for some years and possibly will have some Master related drawings etc ?
    Lovely little museum to visit anyway
    Last edited by bazv; 17th December 2017 at 13:08.

  5. #5
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    Actually the Martinet at Woodley is fitted with stbd wing from Master DK964 - the port wing had already been fitted and sprayed during our last visit so not 100% sure it is from the same Master.

    rgds baz

  6. #6
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    I am a lurking in the shadows afficianado ever since I understood that the Master was the key step up from Tiger Moths in the FTS system for those selected for fighter pilot training. My father, who went on Oxfords, in the bomber pilot stream, was stationed in a Polish RAF training school with Oxfords and Masters where he once remarked that he had the task of identifying the remains of a friend who crashed in a Master. This lost pilot would, I think, be completely forgotten, if not for the quiet recollection of a 100 year old man in Australia. Last year, in between a visit, I found the airfield, now an unmarked industrial park, and, despite all the discouraging no trespass signs, stood on the end of the grass and spoke the dead pilot's name.

    I think the great untold story of WW2 is how many pilots died in training.

    The Master, being timber, would be eminently buildable, if you had an eccentric with a little space and a lot of time. There are some quite wonderful photographic essays on Master construction in various editions of Aircraft Production. I think I have decided that I do not have enough lifetime left to get drawn into a Master project, and it is essentially a British story, from the industrial and wartime perspective. I could probably focus on providing a Kestrel XXX, if somebody else focused on the matchwood attached to it. It would be a good way to remember the forgotten pilot who went in at RAF Newton.

  7. #7
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    Probably twenty years ago a well known restorer /operator gathered parts together to build a Kestrel Master. For whatever reason he decided not to proceed

  8. #8
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    Just needs a nutter to do it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerandpassion View Post
    Just needs a nutter to do it.
    Correction-

    Just needs a nutter with money to do it...Which counts me out lol

    Bob T.

  10. #10
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    Yes I would love to do it too, but again the money would be the problem. Here’s hoping someone does one day as it is a lovely looking aeroplane. Thanks again for all your replies.

  11. #11
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    I thought the Museum of Berkshire Aviation was the one planning a Master during the eighties but then went for a Martinet instead.
    Cheers
    Cees

  12. #12
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    The Martinet remains were recovered from Iceland so I imagine it was logical to rebuild that.

  13. #13
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    The Museum of Berkshire have a superb carpenter and draftsman; Ian Simmonds. He started with the remains of the Martinet, and very few original drawings. With assistance from members of the museum, they have rebuilt a superb exhibit.

    Ian told me once, that lack of many drawings for extinct, or fragmented Miles aircraft in general will prevent accurate, if not flying restorations in the future.

  14. #14
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    Ref Drawings.

    I do have a large collection of Falcon and Hawk (Sparrowhawk / Speed Six ) drawing which came from the Factory and PPS.

  15. #15
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    The pilot who went in at RAF Newton around 1943-44 was surnamed Szwede. He took off in a Master, banked too early and the wing tip caught the ground. I wonder if anybody has the smarts to try and correlate this to official records. I don't know where to begin to search these records, and don't have the aptitude for it.

    I have some Master documents, a 'sales catalogue' and what looks like the draft of an AP, largely dealing with Master hydraulics. These are Lockheed, which are common to Oxford, but more usefully Mosquito, in terms of current know how. I have a Master-Oxford hydraulic reservoir and enough Mosquito hydraulics to outfit most of the anonymous hydraulics of a Master. I would happily donate these to any nutter with money that wanted to put together a flying Master.

    There are a few piles of grey lumber that are Master IDs and it looks like there are some key remains to reverse engineer from. Every time somebody says there are no drawings I have found, in time, and after climbing blizzard crowned peaks, fording great rivers and crawling through barbed wire, that this is not true.

    I would be happy to assist the nutter to thin their wallet if they wanted an operating Kestrel XXX, so an engine isn't a problem, although the prop setup might require some thought. A radial Master might be easier. It really is all about building a timber airframe. 'Aircraft Production' 1940 shows the Master I being built, with a lavish photographic record, which I can arrange to copy in high resolution. It kind of lends itself to a skilled wood worker in a garage.

    So, nutter with some time and money, where art thou? Every pilot who flew a Spitfire or Hurricane must have begun their journey in a Master. It's a big missing piece in the historical record.

  16. #16
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    I agree and the best thing would be to build a static one first to find out how it all fits etc. Using the same tooling an airworthy airframe might be constructed.
    Cheers
    Cees

  17. #17
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    I expect the easiest way forward regarding engine and prop would be a Master III, with a P&W Twin Wasp Junior and a Hamilton Standard RH 3D40 / 6010 prop,'off the peg'. You could of course put the 6010 on the Kestrel, only the propellerheads like me would complain.
    Last edited by Beermat; 21st December 2017 at 00:09.

  18. #18
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    I think that you'll find that there were pilots in Hurricanes and Spitfires who never saw a Master from the inside, but did their advanced training in Hart-family aircraft or Harvards. However, surely for beginning their journey a Tiger Moth or Magister?

  19. #19
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    RAF Newton

    RAF Newton 2017
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  20. #20
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    More
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  21. #21
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    Even more
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  22. #22
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    And more
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  23. #23
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    Not finished
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  24. #24
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    Not yet
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  25. #25
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    No Sir
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  26. #26
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    Not off topic, there were Masters in those hangars and Master pilots were there from 1939.
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  27. #27
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    Used as Industrial park today. Always was a grass strip, on a plateau.
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  28. #28
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    The Master is another great favorite of mine and I would love to do a drawing of this type for model purposes if I can put together enough info.

    I remember the tower and hangars at Newton, as it was the first B of B airshow I attended in 1954 when I lived in a village not far from there (In fact I'm not much further away now). I later did my SNCO management training course at Newton. Newton was one of the few remaining grass airfields, There's another Master crash site on the A610 just inside the Valley (Ring) road where a Polish chap crashed after aerobatting a Master over his girlfriends house. The site is still visible today by virtue of a tree missing from a kerbside row of trees.

    John

  29. #29
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    Pilot Officer Tadeusz Szwede, 23, dived into ground from 50ft. on air-test in Master III DL938 of 16(P)SFTS Newton. Also killed was his passenger, Sgt. William Henry Brown, engine fitter. Sat 25th March, 1944.

  30. #30
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    I have 74 accidents/incidents listed to Masters in Nottinghamshire (so far!)
    Master III DL890 spun into ground during aerobatics somewhere in the Nutall Rd./Whitemoor Ave. area, 9th June, 1944. That the one? Is the gap in the tree visible on Google Earth Street View?

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