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Thread: Is the Twin Pioneer G-APRS at Coventry being scrapped?

  1. #1
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    Is the Twin Pioneer G-APRS at Coventry being scrapped?

    I've just been sent a message by a friend who pointed me to the Fighter Control site and they have a report on there (secondary to a main report on the Shack engine run) with pictures of the Twin Pin having its props and engines removed.

    The suggestion is that it is being cut up. Is this true? If so, it is regrettable - but it has a nice cockpit on it which someone should save - hint; BDAC?

    Anon.

  2. #2
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    Isn’t it off to be a ‘glamping’ tent?!

  3. #3
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    If someone knows what is happening can they let me know as I can pass on the details to the owner of the Oz Twin Pin and see if he is interested in parts etc. If it is being scrapped need to move fast.

  4. #4
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    I passed the details of the various adverts for this on to the Oz TP owners some months ago.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."(Mary Baker Eddy)

  5. #5
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    Thats a terrible end to a lovely aircraft. Was there anything (except money and the will) preventing it being restored to flight? Shame it couldn't atleast have made the hop over the fence to MAM? Assume the offer was too good to refuse?

  6. #6
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    I read something earlier saying it has appeared on G-INFO as having been returned to or re-registered. Although I have yet to check....

    Having found the post on Facebook, it would appear to have been de-registered sadly.
    Last edited by Binbrook 01; 7th December 2017 at 18:42.

  7. #7
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    I am sure Mike Collett has done all he can to find a home for her, shame as she would be great at Newark.
    pb::

  8. #8
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    Gone are the days of trying to save every one!
    Find out what's happening at newarkairmuseum.org
    Please help move Chinook ZA717 to Newark Air Museum

  9. #9
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    Indeed 'saving' whats already been saved against the British climate is enough of a job!

  10. #10
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    G-APRS has not been owned by Air Atlantique / CAF for some time now. The gentleman who purchased it retained it in its dismantled state at Coventry and almost immediately put it up for sale again. It was advertised on various platforms including Gumtree and eBay.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."(Mary Baker Eddy)

  11. #11
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    Gumtree?!?!?! I'm sure he was beating away offers with a stick.

    While I appreciate that you can't save 'em all, there is still something mildly frustrating about a historic aircraft that has gone from being a flyer to a dismantled heap of parts. Especially given that another Twin Pioneer was bought and parted out purely to keep this one a flyer.

  12. #12
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    That explains it as I am sure she would have gone to a good home otherwise.
    pb::

  13. #13
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    A company did make an offer on it that would have seen it return to flight, but sadly the current vendor declined that offer, and it arrived on eBay shortly after.

    FB

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    Gumtree?!?!?! I'm sure he was beating away offers with a stick.

    While I appreciate that you can't save 'em all, there is still something mildly frustrating about a historic aircraft that has gone from being a flyer to a dismantled heap of parts. Especially given that another Twin Pioneer was bought and parted out purely to keep this one a flyer.
    This is the scenario where forum dwellers really ought to try joined up thinking. Save something by actually getting of ones **** and throwing in some dollar. This forum has amongst its membership all the attributes required to purchase, store, restore, legislate and operate an aircraft such as the Twin Pioneer. But that needs leadership, teamwork and positivity. How pitiful that the jeering, I don’t like Spitfires/Duxford threads, nothing to do with me attitudes pervade.
    Those old aeroplanes will continue to decline, what are YOU doing to stop that happening?

    (Before I get flamed, I work professionally on 50’s jets, trying to help keep them airworthy, rectifying faults and combating the corrosion that just keeps coming).

  15. #15
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    Is it still up for grabs? Could a crowd funding campaign be set up to try to save it if it was known how much was being asked for it? or is it another case of people getting silly ideas of making lots of money from aircraft parts on the internet?

    Such a shame as it would seem to be in relatively good condition. I'm still horrified at the loss of the complete Catalina in Ireland a few years ago.
    It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

  16. #16
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    I suspect that whoever is dismantling it is in the employ of the new owners to some degree. Its been for sale on Ebay for ages -unfortunately that often means that a high price reduces the chances of preservation .

  17. #17
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    I've often thought that we should get organised as a forum for such eventualities as this, assuming the asking price is not prohibitive. Several things would need organising to be ready to be available at shortish notice such as finding a viable storage site, a list of sympathetic transport companies and a group of willing enthusiasts to do the initial saving. The down side is that it would have to be set up to cover the entire UK and consideration needs to be given to the long term future of what's been saved plus a multitude of smaller things that would probably crop up.

    BTW, What happened to the Forum Shackleton nose section?
    It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston
    This is the scenario where forum dwellers really ought to try joined up thinking. Save something by actually getting of ones **** and throwing in some dollar.
    Apologies for obviously triggering you. In future I will endeavour to get of (sic) my **** (sic) and throw in some dollar (sic) rather than commit the cardinal sin of having an opinion on the Internet.

    The point of a discussion forum is that opinions are shared and things are discussed. This forum seems somewhat unique of the few I visit in that a fairly large, somewhat toxic corner of the membership want neither discussion to take place or opinion (especially dissenting) to be shared. Case in point the Cranfield Lightnings thread last week; the thread starter was roundly chastised and told to simply conduct their research elsewhere. If that is the case, why bother with a discussion forum at all?


    Quote Originally Posted by Piston
    Those old aeroplanes will continue to decline, what are YOU doing to stop that happening?
    I've donated to aircraft projects and museums/collections, but that is largely irrelevant. I've thrown some dollar at various projects. My name is written somewhere on that Shackleton at Coventry, to name but one. Your argument here is about as cogent as those who counter criticism of a musician or actor with "well, can you do any better?" Is it imperative that one has to be the shining example of something before one can criticise others carrying out similar work?

  19. #19
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    Don’t be so touchy man, I wasn’t directing anything at you in particular. I know not to go sabre rattling with someone who goes by the name “meddle”...
    Last edited by Piston; 8th December 2017 at 19:16.

  20. #20
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    There's plenty of people on here doing plenty of good work on a multitude of aircraft types, but the less glamorous ones such as the Twin Pin are always going to play second string to the more popular and valuable warbirds.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piston
    Don’t be so touchy man, I wasn’t directing anything at you in particular.
    Try some joined up thinking and don't quote one of my posts verbatim then.

  22. #22
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    Does anyone else not think this is a tragedy that it may be scrapped bearing in mind the rarity of the type these days. Added to that, the fact she was airworthy up until recently will mean she is a far better condition than a lot of those sitting in museums, regardless of how pampered they have been.

    I can totally understand the price it was listed at on eBay, because it was more or less airworthy or potentially bar the struts I believe, the tragedy in that was it then put it out of the price range of those hoping to preserve her, however I would imagine her scrap value would be minimal, the value being in her parts, such as engines instrumentation and props etc.


    ..
    Last edited by TonyT; 9th December 2017 at 01:29.

  23. #23
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    The strut issue would be a kicker though. A fairly obscure part to try and replace, which would translate into a major financial outlay for whoever picked up the project.

    Perhaps the simple truth is that the Twin Pin is a somewhat ugly, unloved aircraft with a fairly limited appeal as a result. It is also pretty well represented; there is a cockpit section and complete airframe in Scotland (which is impressive given that we have a handful of aviation museums at most). Outwith Scotland it isn't too hard to imagine that the interest dwindles pretty quickly. Cosford have a nice example stored safely indoors, so do we need others? Had G-APRS been restored to flight then it would hardly be filling the Vulcan-shaped hole on the airshow circuit.

    East Fortune might have been the best shout for purchasing G-APRS (Scottish museum with both space and money), but they already have G-BBVF.

  24. #24
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    I think that was the problem, the only thing you could probably do would be to manufacture new struts and that would be mega expensive.

  25. #25
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    Yes it's more than a shame it's a tragedy that it wasn't saved, but 30K that's a lot of money in anyone's book. Yes we all like fast,loud and sleek but everything has its place in our aviation heritage, remember as we get older we need to inspire the future generation and what better way than seeing an aircraft in the sky. How safe is the Pembroke that is listed on ebay or is this now destined to become some more holiday accommodation or such like.
    Perhaps now is the time to try to create an organisation like the ones in America or across Europe and keep as many of these planes where they belong..in the air.
    Also more display slots for transports and liason types need to be found, remember slower planes in the air can stick in a childs memory better than fast and noisey, then that child pesters it's parents to see more aircraft ,more museums are then visited and we all need that.

  26. #26
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    The passage of time must be a factor, as eventually these aeroplanes become really quite old. Ten, even twenty years into retirement they may be in reasonable shape, but after thirty or forty, all the systems, seals, etc are properly tired, and fatique life, corrosion etc, are probably all becoming an issue. An aged Leonides engine , not rebuilt in forty years, was cited in the fatal Provost crash a few years ago. Sadly , when a major rebuild is needed, often the sums just do not stack up.

    Seemingly the Twin Pin will go the way of the Varsity, the Bristol Freighter and perhaps the Heron soon. Rapides have a better future because they can make money, and the DC-3 probably has some staying power, being a historic icon.

    The historic aircraft scene is shrinking, with a lot of types once familiar now absent, like the P.38, Tigercat, Thunderbolt, Mosquito, B-25, and even Mustangs falling in number. The jet scene is a shadow of its former self, having lost the Vulcan, Sea Vixen, Sea Hawk, T33, Sabre, most Hunters, all the Venoms, almost all the Vampires, the Canberra and most of the Meteors.

    On the up are Hurricanes, and of course Spitfires, especially the two seaters and their potential to make money. As a trend, I would guess that the 'Battle of Britain' glamour will continue to keep these types in demand and valuable, thus justifying the high cost of rebuild.

    The light end of the spectrum could also do quite well, with historic reproductions of types like Chiltons and Comper Swifts within the budget of the comfortably off, but ordinary enthusiast.

  27. #27
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    Best post PS on this subject, hitting the nail on the head, food for thought but not enough money!
    http://www.flightmemory.com/ I have been round the world 11.83 times!

  28. #28
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    Yes we all like fast,loud and sleek
    No we don't Merlin Power, and I'm sure a number on this forum would agree with me, but I do agree with the jest of your reply.

  29. #29
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    We don't need Merlin power, and appreciate the other less romantic types, but WE, i.e. those of us on this forum are not that many in number compared to the great unwashed. Unfortunately Spitfires, Hurricanes & Lancasters are what the public know about, as was the Vulcan, so they get all the money. I've often been the only aviation enthusiast in various places I have worked and have really had to explain/educate people that there is more to historic aviation in this country than the aforementioned types. You have to stir peoples passion to get cash and/or time out of them to keep things going.
    It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

  30. #30
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    So, do we know what is actually happening to the Twin Pin - Glamping pod? Private dwelling? Bits in a skip?

    They've salvaged the engines and probably other bits as well though I'd surmise, if it's going to be a Glamping Pod or similar that the new owner would want the cockpit pretty much intact.

    Anon.

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