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Thread: Please Identify This Plane

  1. #1
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    Please Identify This Plane

    Photo maybe taken in Spain around summer 1941, but unconfirmed. Any idea?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    It's not unlike a Northrop Gamma.
    Ken

  3. #3
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    Or a Lockheed Sirius. But it's neither.

  4. #4
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    Could it be the Mitsubishi Ki 15 Kamakaze round the world flyer?

  5. #5
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    Not. It´s a different plane...Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
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    The scenery in the first photo looks more like that of a Pacific island than Spain.

    I'm wondering if, and why, an aircraft in a civil/racing scheme would be kicking around in Spain in 1941. I'm also trying to work out the letters on the underside of the port wing. SCA?

  7. #7
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    Cockpit and tail look Russian somehow.

  8. #8
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    Some rather 'odd' types went to Spain during the Civil War period. I recall a while ago working on the history of a '30s Lockheed or Northrop long distance record breaker that called at Speke, then a while later ended up in Spain during the civil war there and indeed survived until the 50s. Wish I could find my notes - it was bigger than the aircraft in the photo though!

    Found it! I'm referring to 'Lady Peace' a Vultee V-1A Monoplane (OK a Vultee, so my little grey cells are growing older) NR-13770 which called at Speke in September 1936. I researched a caption for the 'Chesterwalls' historic photo website which has a photo of it at Liverpool/Speke. In 1938 it was sold in Spain and involved in the Spanish Civil War. This is most certainly not the aeroplane in the photo shared on the OP of the thread - just mentioned as a comment to balance 'Meddles' query as to why an American racer (or in my case a long distance record breaker) could be in Spain in the early '40s. I'll politely point out to 'Stratosaurus' that Spain has palm trees too! While I'm at it, 'Beermat', I recall the Air Britain Merseyside Branch monthly meetings (although only a teenager at the time) in the Stork Hotel, Liverpool during the '60s - or at least I assume that is the intended connection between avatar and aviation forum!

    Interesting. I just love these 'what/why/where/when is it' threads, even though I rarely have knowledge enough to butt in!
    Last edited by viscount; 26th October 2017 at 08:48.

  9. #9
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    I can confirm it's not a Northrop.
    Its cockpit is too far forward for the Gammas and too far back for the 2Es.
    Overall it almostmatches the 2L sold to Bristol as an engine test bed.
    The cockpit location and landing gear fairings are close, but the few photos I have of the Bristol ship show a cowl with many aft cowl flaps, a large snorkel air intake and doesn't show the large prop spinner.

    And as previously stated, it isn't a Lockheed either.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 26th October 2017 at 00:23.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  10. #10
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    Really odd one. It looks very American, but the landing gear fairings (and scheme) look very Yakovlev:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I was toying with the under-wing lettering being Cyrillic, but I can't make it match anything.

    Are we sure this isn't a clever photoshop? Stratosaurus, what is the source of this image?
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    It's all good. Probably.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for all replies. The photo is currently for sale on this spanish site. The seller has a group of photos of aircrafts of the spanish air force capted in 08-1941 at San Javier AB as stated almost in one reverse. Really very rare plane, i still search info... https://www.todocoleccion.net/milita...erra~x99699239

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    scotavia...
    Look at the photo again....the cockpit is further back than the Northrop 2E image you linked to. Also, the photo shows bullet-like fairings on the landing gear "trousers".
    Finally, the prop spinner.

    If it's a Northrop it's one not seen in my books about them.

    Likewise, it doesn't seem to be a Vultee. While it's broadly similar to the V11, they had retractable gear.

    If the photo is from Spain, that tells us something, but at the same time doesn't narrow down the possibilities a great deal since so many aircraft of the period ended up there during the civil war.

    Perhaps a long forgotten prototype that was sold...or one off modification of an established type.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 27th October 2017 at 02:21.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  14. #14
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    Viscount, there's more to the Stork Hotel thing - was a bit of a running joke on here a while back - all related to some wild claims about a certain legless pilot. I'll not go into it here.. but if you search the forum you'll find it. I do have Scouse connections, though.

  15. #15
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    Beermat wrote:
    Cockpit and tail look Russian somehow.
    No, it is not Russian plane anyway.

  16. #16
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    Have you something that rules it out?

    It doesn't 'look' Russian, but I presume you have more to go on than that?
    Last edited by Beermat; 26th October 2017 at 19:01.

  17. #17
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    Perhaps the I.A.R. 24? (I dont see photo of this plane)... Wikipedia says it has spanish Hispano Suiza engine... maybe the plane was in Spain some time... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR-23

  18. #18
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    Gee Bee QED II

  19. #19
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    The landing gear configuration looks different on the Gee Bee QED... gear legs are closer together and mounted further back.
    A Little VC10derness - A Tribute to the Vickers VC10 - www.VC10.net

  20. #20
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    Local customisation of a Northrop Gamma?

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by STRATOSAURUS

    Perhaps the I.A.R. 24? (I dont see photo of this plane)
    There is a pic online in google images - side view only
    I think that the IAR 24 is the most likely contender posted thus far,it even has a similar paint scheme.
    Although for absolute confirmation would need to see landing gear configuration from head on,and of course a higher resolution image of the tail unit on the mystery pic would help.

    rgds baz
    Last edited by bazv; 26th October 2017 at 22:06.

  22. #22
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    IAR.24 isn't beefy enough. It does resemble parts of the Gee Bee also, but it's none of the above. It looks like some kind of racer or long-distance record type but so far it's really annoying.

    Doubly annoying because it's handsome machine and I'd love to know more!

  23. #23
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    The flaps distort the view of the wing trailing edge. My first thought was it was of the Seversky 3XAR family as it appears to have an elliptical tailplane although the U/c fairing is different. The port aileron appears to be up, thus straightening the trailing edge further as we are seeing the flatness of the aileron and not the trailing edge.

    John
    Last edited by John Aeroclub; 6th November 2017 at 21:57.

  24. #24
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    For what it's worth, it also looks like the Aichi D3A IJN dive bomber (aka "Val")...some of which had similar prop spinners which aren't found on most types.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 28th October 2017 at 05:26.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  25. #25
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    Could this be something made from the unfinished Spanish built Fokker DXXI's?, has some similarities. http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Fokker_D.XXI

  26. #26
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    Manfred Weiss WM-23 with fixed undercarriage?
    Under my gruff exterior lies an even gruffer interior...

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  27. #27
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    Too many differences: this is a beefy-looking machine and apart from the Sirius, Gee Bee and Gamma they're all too puny-looking.

    That colour scheme makes me think that this is a famous aircraft (or should be) and probably along-distance racer. But I'm out of suggestions. It does look like a Granville Brothers-inspired type though.

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  29. #29
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    I really hesitate to suggest this in such illustrious company but how about a Fokker D XXI?

    Fokker DXXI (1) 99699239_69453475

    FOKKER DXXI DANISH

    Apparently Spain did have some.

    The shrouding looks very close, the cockpit is well back with a flat front screen. There is a tail wheel as apposed to a skid. I do not think you can see a tailplane (what initially is taken as a tailplane would be very large and I think it is something in the background) in the OP pictures which means it is mounted high up which fits the XXI.
    The pitot tubes are in different positions.

  30. #30
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    Paul1867 wrote:
    The shrouding looks very close, the cockpit is well back with a flat front screen. There is a tail wheel as apposed to a skid. I do not think you can see a tailplane (what initially is taken as a tailplane would be very large and I think it is something in the background) in the OP pictures which means it is mounted high up which fits the XXI.
    No, that unknown plane is more huge and "fat" than D-XXI, and D-XXI have the tailplane in upper position, and "our" plane - in lower position. Main wings of "our" plane are much bigger.
    Maybe, this is one of French or Italian special planes, which were made in single examples for air races or long distance flights ?
    Last edited by Flyer; 28th October 2017 at 18:06.

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