Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: He shot down a Mig15 with a Sea Fury.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    743

    He shot down a Mig15 with a Sea Fury.

    At Duxford today was Brian (Schmoo) Ellis who saw a MiG-15 for the first time since August 1952 when he defeated one in air combat over Pyongyang. Flying a Sea Fury of 802 Naval Air Squadron, he is believed to be the first pilot to down a MiG jet in a piston-engined fighter.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC_6484.jpg 
Views:	949 
Size:	135.4 KB 
ID:	255830

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,473
    Wasn't 'Hoagy' Carmichael the first?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,320
    I heard recently that there has been some question over who actually got the kill. I can't remember the details, but it was something about a reconstruction of the dogfight profile which indicated that another member of the formation, not Carmichael, was responsible.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Stamford Lincs
    Posts
    9,870
    If ever there was someone deserving of a back seat flight in a Sea Fury !

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    newcastle
    Posts
    82
    There was an article in the Times a couple of months ago which basically said it had been unclear who had shot it down, so it was credited to Carmichael as section leader, which, it said, was a common method of attributing uncertain kills. Recent research had shown it was Ellis that had fired the fatal shots. in the report in the Times today, Ellis is said to have only been credited with the kill last year.

    Paul

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    8,605
    when he defeated one in air combat over Pyongyang.
    The way things are going, if he is up for it, he may get another chance to increase that score.
    Last edited by TonyT; 19th September 2017 at 15:12.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Street, Somerset, UK
    Posts
    712
    I don't know who did this 'research', what source documents they used, nor why it took so long to come to this conclusion, but the general consensus amongst most of those around at the time was that Hoagy was simply credited as Flight Leader on behalf of the others. The popular press grabbed hold of this and attributed the kill to Carmichael.

    It sounds to me, with Winkle Brown now gone, as if someone is seeking out a new 'hero', regardless of whether in the course of doing so history gets slightly massaged.
    The views I express are PURELY my own. Please respect that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    newcastle
    Posts
    82
    http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...php?p=10166388 (if that link works) recites the article in the Times. Not, as I mis-remembered, new "research", so much as Ellis giving "his side of the story".

    Paul

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Street, Somerset, UK
    Posts
    712
    ....by Paul Beaver......I'll say no more...
    The views I express are PURELY my own. Please respect that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    104
    I first came across Brian Ellis’s account of events back in 2010 while looking for details of his aircraft WJ223 for a profile after meeting him and Peter Davis at a signing in 2009

    And after a quick search it seems FlyPast carried an article around 2001 by Rowland White - see link below on the subject

    http://archive.is/2s51P


    cheers
    Chris

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    8,274
    Not a fan of Paul Beaver?
    Fox-4!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Street, Somerset, UK
    Posts
    712
    Well Rowland White managed to make a mountain out of a molehill with Phoenix Squadron, regardless of how good a 'dit' it might be. I'd still like to see what hard evidence was unearthed to underpin this particular claim. And again, why did it take this long?
    The views I express are PURELY my own. Please respect that.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Dunfermline
    Posts
    1,707
    I first came across Brian Ellis’s account of events back in 2010 while looking for details of his aircraft WJ223 for a profile after meeting him and Peter Davis at a signing in 2009

    And after a quick search it seems FlyPast carried an article around 2001 by Rowland White - see link below on the subject

    http://archive.is/2s51P
    Chris, did you manage to establish the side code? Would make an interesting model subject (with a new Sea Fury kit on the near horizon!)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    104
    Hi Dave F

    For WJ223 I had code '106' which I think Brian Ellis told me (was a while ago so not 100% now where details came from). Peter Davis, one of the other pilots that day, gave me serial WE724, Code 119 although not checked this one

    cheers
    Chris
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Dunfermline
    Posts
    1,707
    many thanks that looks good!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    743
    And then a Sea Fury turned up.....

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC_6900 copy.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	131.7 KB 
ID:	255891

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Where you wish you were.
    Posts
    9,246
    Shows what a good pilot can do with an outclassed aircraft.
    The following month a Corsair shot down a MiG.
    And in Vietnam, I believe a Skyraider was credited with a MiG-17.
    And remember unlike a Sea Fury or Corsair, a Skyraider wasn't a fighter.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,017

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    8,274
    What's wrong with Paul Beaver?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES