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Thread: Mig 29A in offensive role ?

  1. #1
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    Mig 29A in offensive role ?

    The mig29 was designed as an defensive fighter in the Cold War era
    But was it possible in the 1980s to use the mig29A for offensive operations? I mean with the help off the awacs, the mobile ground-control interception and maybe using the mig 31 to transmit information to the mig29?
    Could mig29 be used to support offensive ground operations as was originally planned in Europe during the Cold War?

  2. #2
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    The main problem with the Mig-29A is its small range... it is a point defense fighter, made to take off, climb fast, fight the attackers in the vicinity of its base and land back...

    for offensive operations, you need range, endurance over target and so on.. as you can't base your fighters right on the frontline. Even if they do have rough field capability, it is not practical to bring tons of fuel and weapons so close and expose them to enemy artillery and whatnot. If you really wanted a fighter, in soviet inventory, able to support offensive operations with endurance that is needed to provide effective air cover, you'd use the Su-27 who carries a lot more fuel and has the range you'll need

  3. #3
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    It's a component of the front line aviation in the Soviet concept. Just like the Mig21 or the Yak 7 before, it is designed to operate above the battle field along its rolling FLOT line*. This is why it does not have long range. There is no place in this design for interdiction or long range escort/strike. The Soviet doctrine put the emphasis on low cost, rugged design, short field and performances.

    So, yes, it's an offensive weapon... Per essence.


    *Just like the Spad, Nieuport or Fokker of WWI
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 17th September 2017 at 17:11.

  4. #4
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    er, it is what you call "point defense fighter"... it is only in the NATO sphere (mostly to provide reason to keep increasing its might) that USSR military is considered as an agressor (offensive) army. when you look at its structure, it is first and foremost, a defensive military system. No force projection capability, no aircraft carriers, the aircraft are ground controlled, except the strategic assets which is all about deterrence (the idea being, show that you can hurt the other guy so he doesn't force you to do it). When they speak about front line aviation, the idea is to be as close as possible to the front line, yes, but in their doctrine, they aren't attacking other countries, they defend their country.

    If you look at an "offensive fighter" of, more or less, similar size, you have to look at the F-18 or F-16, for example, who both have much more range (of one looks at the ferry range, as it is more or less with the same flight profile, according to wiki you go from 2100km for the Mig-29A, up to 3300km for the F-18 and 4200km for the F-16)

  5. #5
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    Mig29A range is only 300 miles with full weapon load of 6 AAM?

  6. #6
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    something like that, can be much less if you scramble and need to climb fast in full AB.. basically, it's almost: "you take off, go up, fire and go back down..."

  7. #7
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    Mig 29A in offensive role ?
    oh man, that is just offensive!

  8. #8
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    With centerline tank it's 300 miles ?

  9. #9
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    The combat radius can be even less according to LW.

    http://www.migflug.com/jetflights/ge...9-fulcrum.html

    But, it's not like it was purposely built to have such a short range (i.e. to be "defensive" only).

  10. #10
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    So really in the far East mig 29 was just useful for point defence interceptor of naval and army bases
    Can be used as an escort for AVMF bombers as they cruise at high altitude and it may increase its range to maybe 300 to 400 miles.And at that time they will turn back to base and the bombers will launch their 250 mile range cruise missiles and return to base as well.
    Last edited by nastle; 18th September 2017 at 17:30.

  11. #11
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    MiG-29A, range without weapons
    without external tanks (3240 kg) - 1200 km, combat radius A2A <420 km, A2S <570 km
    1 PTB-1500, (1160 kg + 3240 = 4400 kg) - 1530 km, combat radius A2A <536 km, A2S <727 km

    MiG-29 +
    2 PTB - 1150, (955 * 2 = 1910 kg + 3240 = 5150 kg) - 1800 km, combat radius A2A < 630 km, A2S < 855 km
    3 PTB (1160 + 1910 + 3240 = 6310 kg) - 2100 km, combat radius A2A < 735 km, A2S < 998 km
    Last edited by paralay; 18th September 2017 at 19:34.

  12. #12
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    Thank you very much
    Can you please give me an idea of the source of these stats

  13. #13
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    manual

    on the ground (Н = 200м, М = 0,5) - 710 km
    -H = 12000m ... 13000m M = 0.8, without tank - 1 430 km
    Without weapons and external tanks - 1250 km / 1h.22 min.
    2хР-27 + 4хР - 73 - 900 km / 1 hour 10 min
    2хР-27 + 2хР-73 + 1хПТБ-1500 (without discharge) -1380 km / 1 hour 38 min.
    the maximum - 2,230 km / 2 hours 42 min

  14. #14
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    Let's just say that until the Soviet Union was standing NO ONE there would even think about multirole planes.
    Hunters will be Hunters and Attack planes would just be Attack.
    Neither Su-27 nor the same Su-30 were effectively tought to be used in such a role.
    Same for most of European Nato members, they never thought to split their own pilots preparation between the two roles.
    It was only way later than technological innovations, budget constraint and comletely modified international scenario allowed to effectively think about real multirole capability.

  15. #15
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    I agree but what do you think of mig29A capability in escort role even for short range missions of soviet bombers?
    I mean they can only escort out naval tu16 and tu 22 only 200 mile or so ,then they will have launch their missiles or risk going unescorted
    I know the flanker was designed for the escort role but they were so few that it is inevitable that the fulcrums will be asked to fulfill some of those missions

  16. #16
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    Thanks paralay
    So 1 PTB means one external tank combat radius in air to air role (im guessing 6 AAM) is 536 km ? Roughly 330 miles
    Just clarifying I'm just an amateur sorry
    Last edited by nastle; 19th September 2017 at 01:21.

  17. #17
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    2хР-27 + 2хР-73 + 1хПТБ-1500 (without discharge) -1380 km / 1 hour 38 min.
    air to air 1380 km * 0.35 = 483 km or 300 mies

    2xFAB-250 + 2хР-73 + 1хПТБ-1500 (without discharge)
    air to surface (1380 km - 5%) : 2 = (1380 km - 69 km) : 2 = 656 km or 408 miles
    5% - aero-navigational fuel stock
    Last edited by paralay; 19th September 2017 at 12:53.

  18. #18
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    Is this range of 300 miles with external fuel tank ? or without ?

  19. #19
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    Yes, with external tank PTB-1500

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