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Thread: Aerobatting AN2 crashes in Moscow show- 2 crew lost

  1. #1
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    Aerobatting AN2 crashes in Moscow show- 2 crew lost

    An Antonov An-2 crashed at an airshow in Balachikha near Moscow. The two pilots were killed in the accident, but no members of the public were hurt. The scene was filmed from many angles and appears to show the pilot attempting a hard left turn to avoid the public before losing control and hitting the ground, following a barrel roll.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=5XDDHfwevOY
    Last edited by Propstrike; 3rd September 2017 at 13:10.

  2. #2
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    The aircraft appears to be in control - it looks like a misjudged turn

  3. #3
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    Video deleted, is this the one?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOBpDOFCHn0

  4. #4
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    Same incident, different angle
    Królewska Moc Powietrza nie jest lot cyrku.....

  5. #5
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    It looks to my untrained eye that with a few more feet he would have got away with it.

  6. #6
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    There is no 'getting away with it'. Could have been avoided by reducing angle of bank. Pulling hard in a steep turn does not reduce the rate of descent markedly. Rolling off some bank angle and then pulling does.

  7. #7
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    RIP and blues skies to the aircrew. Condolences to the families and friends effected.

  8. #8
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    Beware these are graphic in showing the crash etc. it looks like an AN2 event, judging by the impact they didn't suffer and it would have been quick... I suppose if you can say anything it is they went out doing something they loved, we can all hope for that. The trouble with rolling out as suggested is you are then probably heading for the crowd and aircraft display line while still descending.

    https://youtu.be/CC-fuRydob8

    https://youtu.be/Bfp5_gcgLtI




    Blue Skies and RIP, my condolences to those left behind in this tragic event..
    Last edited by TonyT; 4th September 2017 at 12:55.

  9. #9
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    R I P

  10. #10
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    Rolling out early might well have involved overflying the crowd but it would have quickly arrested the rate of descent and the aircraft would not have hit the ground. Overflying the crowd is far preferable to dying. Pulling hard to stay within the display axis cannot arrest the rate of descent. What it does is increase the effective weight of the aircraft, the drag and the stall speed.

  11. #11
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    What a horrible thing to witness, but with its origins in the utter folly of aerobatting such an aeroplane.

    I hope the poor co-pilot knew what he was getting into, not just a hapless passenger taken to his fate.

  12. #12
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    Is the An2 concidered suitable for aerobatics? Most displays I've seen with the type have been slow, sedate and to demonstrate it's STOL capabilities.
    Just wondered if it's been used for full on aero's before?

  13. #13
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    Not the first time they are aerobatted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VKjPf1SjpI

  14. #14
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    there are several companies reviving the An-2 by fitting turbines to them; one new version has no lower wing.

  15. #15
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    Plenty of airspeed and altitude coming out of the barrel roll in my opinion. I think he just misjudged his height in the turn.

  16. #16
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    Airspeed and altitude, but the aircraft was on a downward trajectory coming out of the roll which continued into the turn. Aerobating an An-2 is one thing but doesn't this look more like a straightforward misjudgement?
    Last edited by Beermat; 5th September 2017 at 11:04.

  17. #17
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    Probably of theoretical interest only after the sad event, and knowing widespread usage, but according to the An-2 Flight Manual

    http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/...2irengine.html

    "Acrobatic flights" are forbidden (page 79). On page 81 we see that bank limitation in turn is 45 degrees.
    Last edited by l.garey; 5th September 2017 at 10:19.
    Laurence

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    There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots................

  19. #19
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    ... but no .....

    RIP
    Laurence

  20. #20
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    that was a spiral dive, he came out too low, banked to avoid the crowd and "stalled" the inner wings without actually stalling them, the only correct but impossible action at that alt would be to roll wings level and then pull up. its like a high speed stall but only on one side with the aircraft locked into an ever increasing yaw.

  21. #21
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    A sad event. Indeed the flight manual should have provided a clue that this was not a wise thing to do. The problem is that, if done correctly, you can get away with a lot in aircraft not specifically designed for aerobatics. Just look at the 707 that was rolled or the spectacular displays that Matt Younkin puts up with his Beech 18. It takes a lot of practice though and leaves no room for error. Apparently this was one of those days where the margins were reduced to zero.
    A Little VC10derness - A Tribute to the Vickers VC10 - www.VC10.net

  22. #22
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    Just an observation, but why so much speculation with this tragic accident? Normally we would try to dissuade people from speculating until an official report came out? Things are rarely what they seem.

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    Because its not in the U.K

  24. #24
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    Ah yes, the Good old ' stop speculating ' breast- beating ritual. Must remember to fit that in.

    The cause, effect and outcome are there for all to see.

    More useful than dissuading people from speculating is dissuading people from aerobatting 3 ton antique utility biplanes.

    Mindful of complacency, I think that the UK display environment has now become much tighter recently in all aspects, certainly a different landscape from the Don Bullock/Jeff Hawke era of the 70's, and whilst we have seen mishaps of various kinds , that willful sheer reckless bravado of flying to the very edge of disaster is not publicly seen in the UK.

    It may be that the AN2 crew were not a display item as such, but performed some sort of fly-by, for the Antonov gathering and then got carried away, and out of their depth. That is just speculation.............

    It is appalling, the videos are unsettling to watch, but some good may yet come out of the attention which this event as attracted.

  25. #25
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    I couldn't have worded that any better Propstrike..... thank you
    Pete Buckingham
    Former RAF Engineer
    Volunteer in Aviation
    http://hunterxf382.weebly.com/

  26. #26
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    OK, I am now aware that it was a display act, had been performed before, and this video shows how it was meant to have been.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud1RFzJ34sw


    Funds are being raised to support the families of Dmitry Sukharev and Boris Tylevich - the two pilots who tragically died in the accident during the airshow in Moscow on September 2, 2017.

  27. #27
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    Comparing Propstrikes video with some of the tragic ones above it makes me realise the thin margins between success and failure, and the results of such a fine error of judgement.

    Those that fly know the risks. I feel for those left behind

    I'm just into RC these days and the costs are just broken expanded foam and hurt pride for me!

  28. #28
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    The "smoke on" from takeoff was an indication it was a display item.

    Bit scary how low the exit and subsequent high energy turns were performed, pretty much zero room for error.

    Still tragic though

  29. #29
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    From Flight Global...
    Russian investigators have disclosed that the Antonov An-2 which crashed at an air show at Balashikha, killing both pilots, should not have been flying as its airworthiness certificate had expired nearly five years earlier.

    Its left wing struck the ground, after the An-2 (RA-35171) descended and banked steeply at low altitude. The wing was torn off and the aircraft rolled inverted before igniting.

    While federal air transport regulator Rosaviatsia says the inquiry is continuing, it has sharply criticised the organisers of the 2 September flight, which took place at a show to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the An-2.

    The crashed aircraft "was not supposed to [fly] at all", it says, because the validity of its airworthiness certificate had expired in November 2012.

    Although both crew held pilot licences, there is no evidence of official authorisation to fly the An-2, states Rosaviatsia, and the aircraft type is "not intended" to engage in the aerobatics undertaken during the flight.

    Rosaviatsia accuses the flight's organisers of having a "totally irresponsible attitude", stressing that the crash occurred just in front of the spectator line, risking fatal injuries to dozens of attendees.

  30. #30
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    No breast-beating ritual from me Propstrike. I just found some aspects of this thread distasteful and at variance to how some forum people normally cover accidents in the west. First and foremost, two people tragically lost their lives.

    Many accidents do look to have obvious causal factors. Flight safety and learning from experience (ours and others) are key cornerstones of my everyday work life.

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