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Thread: If N Korea goes too far and is attacked what airborne assets would be used

  1. #1
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    If N Korea goes too far and is attacked what airborne assets would be used

    This is posted soon North Korea seriously raised tensions in east Asia by routing a ballistic missile over northern Japan. It is reported that 3 missiles were launched, one of which malfunctioned and broke up early in its flight. What if it had been the one passing over Hokkaido and had crashed down onto Japanese soil? I believe that would have been an act of war (intentional or not).

    If North Korea does finally cross the line or USA/South Korea feel forced into starting hostilities, what air assets would be likely to be deployed against the enemy and how might they be used?
    Sum ergo cogito

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    If North Korea does finally cross the line or USA/South Korea feel forced into starting hostilities
    With North Korea armed with Nuclear weapons and Seoul right south of the border it would take something of seismic proportions to force the South Koreans to start hostilities.

    what air assets would be likely to be deployed against the enemy and how might they be used?
    Everything that can carry an ammunition or a recon capability?

    Cheers

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    James Clapper: For the first time I agree with Bannon on North Korea

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/30/po...ntv/index.html
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    If North Korea does finally cross the line or USA/South Korea feel forced into starting hostilities, what air assets would be likely to be deployed against the enemy and how might they be used?
    The most important question to be asked in the Korean theatre is basically to the Japanese and the South Koreans, and that is -----> Are they ready to die to keep America safe.

    A second Korean war would be as bloody as the first, if not more. But unlike the first, the second Korean war is likely to bring to the table a real possibility of the bully getting punched in face (read continental US). This is what has unsettled the muricans and the hawks inside murica would love to fight to the last Korean and Japanese to keep continental America safe, but is that what the Japanese and Koreans want? I guess not.


    The First Korean war is known as the Forgotten War in the US, the second Korean war, if it happens, wont be.

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    NKorea is shooting missiles off b/c it sees the USs shows of force and exersises the same way that we see its missile launches.

    NK is trying to force the US into negotitation.

    As for assets , Russia and China will not tolerate an attack from the US here. It would be a war with Russian and Chinese air forces and anti aircraft assest. It would be a gong show. Dog fights would break out. US tankers would be attacked ect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JangBoGo
    The most important question to be asked in the Korean theatre is basically to the Japanese and the South Koreans, and that is -----> Are they ready to die to keep America safe.

    A second Korean war would be as bloody as the first, if not more. But unlike the first, the second Korean war is likely to bring to the table a real possibility of the bully getting punched in face (read continental US). This is what has unsettled the muricans and the hawks inside murica would love to fight to the last Korean and Japanese to keep continental America safe, but is that what the Japanese and Koreans want? I guess not.
    Its a damned outrage that the US got involved in the Korean conflict in the first place. If they hadn't come in blundering with their neo-imperialistic arrogance, all of Korea might have had an opportunity to experience the joys of living under the guidance of the people's Dear Leader Kim-il-sung and his equally wise successors.

    The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests. - http://www.korea-dpr.com/
    Last edited by Vnomad; 2nd September 2017 at 06:20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB
    As for assets , Russia and China will not tolerate an attack from the US here. It would be a war with Russian and Chinese air forces and anti aircraft assest. It would be a gong show. Dog fights would break out. US tankers would be attacked ect.
    Russia would engage in full scale war against the US, dogfights and all... to defend Kim Jong Un and Juche socialism?

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    The Yankees will go home bombing Noko to hell but in kind they will be Nuke Soko and Japs ...with millions of refugees entering China and Russia and even South Korea.

    North korea is a artificially created crisis by Trump to divert attention from his domestic problems , Every president gets good rating domestically if he is a war president .....So I wont be surprised if Trump pushes for war.

    Hopefully Trump would listen to Bannon if not any one
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin
    The Yankees will go home bombing Noko to hell but in kind they will be Nuke Soko and Japs ...with millions of refugees entering China and Russia and even South Korea.
    The US has 30,000+ military personnel in South Korea, 40,000+ in Japan with another 5,000 in Guam. Plus the 160,000 people of Guam who are still US citizens. That should address the argument about US egging on a war from a 'safe' distance.

    With respect to the refugee argument - North Korea as a country is about as rural as they come. Bombing identifiable military targets is unlikely to cause a great deal of collateral damage. There will of course still be a sizeable refugee flow towards the south - for the simple reason that they are citizens of North Korea. The DMZ is the Korean equivalent of the Berlin wall, designed to keep the domestic population penned as much as it is to keep foreign forces at bay. The fall of the Berlin Wall led to an exodus to the West - that doesn't mean that reunification was the wrong thing to do.

    North korea is a artificially created crisis
    Not for the North Korean people, it isn't (though yes, Trump is a blowhard).
    Last edited by Vnomad; 2nd September 2017 at 09:50.

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    Originally Posted by Vnomad
    Russia would engage in full scale war against the US, dogfights and all... to defend Kim Jong Un and Juche socialism?
    you should check the definition of word "full scale". what about half scale and one fourth scale?
    I wouldn't be surprise Trump is doing this as favor to Russia by escalating in Korea. Already tourist and factories are fleeing Korea. hot war will make North Korea victory assured as people in South simply cant live in that standard of living. they don't have oil like Iraq.
    After the war only Russia can rebuild that new Korea with Turkish contractors help. Germany knows that result.
    https://www.thelocal.de/20170811/mer...r-trump-tweets
    Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Friday that she opposed any use of force to resolve the conflict with North Korea, after President Donald Trump said the US military was "locked and loaded"

  11. #11
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    The most important question to be asked in the Korean theatre is basically to the Japanese and the South Koreans, and that is -----> Are they ready to die to keep America safe.

    A second Korean war would be as bloody as the first, if not more. But unlike the first, the second Korean war is likely to bring to the table a real possibility of the bully getting punched in face (read continental US). This is what has unsettled the muricans and the hawks inside murica would love to fight to the last Korean and Japanese to keep continental America safe, but is that what the Japanese and Koreans want? I guess not.


    The First Korean war is known as the Forgotten War in the US, the second Korean war, if it happens, wont be.
    -----------------------------

    US has been very tolerant of North Korea's antics as long as they weren't a threat to the US mainland. US tolerated North Korea sinking a SK warship, tolerated the shelling of SK island, tolerated IRBM launches, tolerated NK building nuke weapons, and tolerated NK testing nuke weapons, all because they wren't a threat to the US AND because Seoul was 30 miles from thousands of NK artillery pieces.

    That all changed (after knowing they weaponized a nuke warhead and didn't tell us) when they tested a ballistic missile a few weeks ago that could very likely reach the US mainland. As long as NK could not reach us with a nuke tipped missile, US was restraint, but now the game has changed and NK crossed a line that President Trump said the US would not tolerate. This is not about South Korea anymore but the security of the US, and if Seoul has to be sacrificed to take out NK's capability to hit the US with a nuke tipped missile, then so be it and too bad for Seoul for not moving its capital after the Korean war. I predict Trump will take action in early 2018 only because of the whispers I'm hearing at work (I'm a civilian tech for US Navy). I will not blame Trump for the mess that we're about to get in, i blame the previous administrations for kicking the can.

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    I will not blame Trump for the mess that we're about to get in, i blame the previous administrations for kicking the can.
    It looks like there is no more road to kick the can down. According to reports N Korea has just tested a hydrogen bomb that can be delivered by its ICBM. Too late to stop N Korea developing that capability through military action against the country. I would say that "diplomacy"(how to hurt N Korea as much as possible by non-military means) is the only road to walk down now. Is king Kim mad enough (I mean crazy, not angry) to attack US territory or assets? I don't think so.
    Sum ergo cogito

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    Is king Kim mad enough (I mean crazy, not angry) to attack US territory or assets? I don't think so.

    I still wouldn't want to live in Guam right now!
    If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much space!

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    What threat is there to Guam?

    If North Korea launch their large atom bomb missile at Guam, their is a good chance it will fail and an even better chance it be intercepted.

    In 10 years time though....

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    Thanks to Ukraine, North Korea have working ICBM with thermonuclear warhead. If mad Trump attack North Korea, than Kim will do his best to sink California to the Pacific ocean. Thermonuclear ICBMs are the best guaranties, that US will not attack North Korea and to secure peace there.

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    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

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    That link is basically Yuzmash saying "we didn't do it, believe us".
    Last edited by TR1; 3rd September 2017 at 20:02.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

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    @Vnomad

    They did last time. Both China and the USSR went to war with the US over Korea. Russia in more of an advisory position but China proper attacked last time.

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    @Spudman

    Thanks to the Ukraine precedent, ( the US not respecting neutral, non aligned status of countries, as stipulated in Budapest Memorandum), China and Russia must defend NK at all costs. Because the US will try and make a colony of it at any chance. Then comes color revolutions and the missile shields ect

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    It looks like there is no more road to kick the can down. According to reports N Korea has just tested a hydrogen bomb that can be delivered by its ICBM. Too late to stop N Korea developing that capability through military action against the country. I would say that "diplomacy"(how to hurt N Korea as much as possible by non-military means) is the only road to walk down now. Is king Kim mad enough (I mean crazy, not angry) to attack US territory or assets? I don't think so.
    ---------------------------------

    The US is more than capable in taking out NK's nuclear missile capability and program by conventional means. Of course Seoul would be hit by thousands of NK artillery rounds and rockets.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB
    They did last time. Both China and the USSR went to war with the US over Korea. Russia in more of an advisory position but China proper attacked last time.
    Maoist China came to the rescue of communist Korea with outside support from the Soviets.

    Thanks to the Ukraine precedent, ( the US not respecting neutral, non aligned status of countries, as stipulated in Budapest Memorandum), China and Russia must defend NK at all costs. Because the US will try and make a colony of it at any chance. Then comes color revolutions and the missile shields ect
    Even if that means condemning the North Korean people to another few decades under Kim-il-Sung's dynasty.

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    JSR said;
    you should check the definition of word "full scale". what about half scale and one fourth scale?
    I wouldn't be surprise Trump is doing this as favor to Russia by escalating in Korea. Already tourist and factories are fleeing Korea. hot war will make North Korea victory assured as people in South simply cant live in that standard of living.


    LOL

    The replies here are bizarre at best.

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    They already one time admitted illegal export of missiles from year 2000 to 2005. these are full missiles not just paper technology transfer. They had that joint development of An-140 with Iran also. who want to give leadership to Ukraine to built a plane.
    https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2005_05/Ukraine
    Ukraine Admits Missile Transfers
    Ukrainian officials have acknowledged that a total of 12 Kh-55 medium-range, air-launched cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads were transferred from Ukraine to Iran and China in the last five years
    now they are building similar project with Saudis. military doctorine around Antonov with technology transfer when basically every subsystem to make the plane fly is imported from west.
    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/busi...nufacture.html
    “A Saudi plane with Ukrainian partnership would contribute to the development of the military doctrine of the armed forces of Saudi Arabia,” according to Retd. Major General Mohammed Alqbeban.
    Nevertheless, Ukraine has a desire for partnership and to open up to the Middle East, and most of all, the desire for transfer of technology. It was something of a challenge when dealing with Western countries.”

    Thanks to Ukraine, North Korea have working ICBM with thermonuclear warhead. If mad Trump attack North Korea, than Kim will do his best to sink California to the Pacific ocean. Thermonuclear ICBMs are the best guaranties, that US will not attack North Korea and to secure peace there.
    I doubt california has any worth. it is built on unstable desert geography with complete import based economics. i am very generous to use the word economic to include everything.

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    A war U.S. vs. NKorea is very unlikely. That said, things might still spiral out of control. And NKorea is now officially part of the thermonuclear club which means it is also a "legitimate" target for a nuclear attack. In which case - the worst case scenario - I'd say the U.S. go in with 20 to 30 nuclear weapons, most likely B83 dropped by B-2 and B61 dropped by F-22, all within a few minutes of a moonless night with easterly winds, targeting most likely both counter-value (B83 - political HQs) and counter-force (B61 - mil HQs, those known and suspected nuclear sites). Followed immediately by a massive all-out SKorean and U.S. air campaign, rolling from the DMZ northwards, and at the same time by an armored push north to get Seoul out of range of NKorean artillery. Should such a scenario happen it also means de-facto war with China. So the same scenario as 1951, Chinese troops racing south, and SKorean troops pushing north. Both trying to keep from hot fallout areas. Russia will keep out but go to their equivalent of DefCon 2 because with another use of nuclear weapons all bets are off and all treaties are dead. But lets not orgasm over doomsday scenarios ...

    Most likely outcome of all of this: no direct kinetic action will happen. The Kim Dynasty has reached a critical step. It is not in their interest to really start a war, they just had to keep the U.S. from attacking until they reached that weaponized thermonuclear warhead + ICBM capability. They won.

    But there will be fallout: This is the final proof that a sovereign country needs nuclear weapons. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, ... and counter-proliferation is officially dead.

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    North Korea would be aware their Nuclear Weapons would be under first strike and would have taken utmost precaution to hide it as possible from getting wiped out in first strike from US or others.

    Unless North korea strikes first with Nuclear weapons there is no reason to strike it with massive strike , There is no way to find out a BM coming towards South korea or Japan is nuclear armed or not.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    Jeffrey Lewis‏Verified account @ArmsControlWonk https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/...31967847931904

    How big was the DPRK nuclear test? Depends on the measurement of Mb and the equation you use. Here is a comparison.


    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    The general discussion section of this forum (found here) is probably a more appropriate place to share one's scholarly work and thoughts on geopolitics, arms control and history.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 4th September 2017 at 12:33.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

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    And it is moved to general discussion... Indeed, it is more fitting.
    Regards,

    Frank

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    The trouble is, they have all this rhetoric and bluster until he has the technology, and then you are screwed, you need to stop it getting that far, as the Isreali's did with Iraq's nuclear ambitions.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/09/wo...s.html?mcubz=3

    Job done...condemmed blah blah blah.. all forgotten and threat resolved. Trouble is they have now left it to late.

    so now what? I suppose you could blockade all the ports for a start to ensure no shipping traffic in or out, but that relies on China doing its bit.. you could try and lean on China over trade to get them to, but as China hold a significant amount of dollar reserves, you would have to be careful.

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    It might surprise those who know me as a 'Liberal Guardian reading Leftie' (I'm not really, but compared to John I suppose I might look like it), but...

    I believe the US with the full support of its allies should simply go in to North Korea in a simple old fashioned conventional assault with the aim of taking out the leadership or denying them the ability to lead. It was done that way in Iraq. it might be the only scenario in 70 years in which they were truly 'liberators' with no global economic motive. It will also head off a possible nuclear conflict - and even if its only a remote possibility it is worth doing, surely.

    It has to be better than looking back with 100% hindsight and saying 'We should have done something'...

    Would any other nation seriously oppose this and escalate? That is less likely than some nuclear catasrrophe triggered by Kim. NK is a little way from being able to respond with a nuclear strike - at least one that won't take weeks to prepare and which won't be shot out of the sky if not destroyed before launch - but that won't last forever.
    Last edited by Beermat; 4th September 2017 at 21:20.

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