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Thread: Su-57/T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA News/Discussion 08/2017

  1. #271
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    Mig-31bm , blogs are most definitly not always reliable sources for information since you are in most cases listening to other peoples opinion , but if someone had copy pasted an interview in a blog then i dont see where is the problem.
    You seem to have some red mark on blogs, but it really depends.
    i think it would not refer as side + main arrays because at this point it will be ~1500(maybe even more as of now) + 400 + 400 = 2300 , i dont thin getting it off by a whole 300 modules would count as around 2000 ,plus the fact that the 1500 has most likely increased , the number really seems to be away from around 2000 taking all details into consideration, but that is my opinion , you may be right.
    Last edited by meme expert; 29th September 2017 at 00:33.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by moon_light View Post
    Su-24 made some close pass over the Donald Cook, that is all. The rest are tabloid nonsense.
    Yep, I've even seen a video of it.. Few high speed passes in low altitude.. The ship crew seemed quite delighted as they got an airshow for free..

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by mig-31bm View Post
    Why do you keep linking to random blog? also, it sounds like they are referring to both the side array and the main array.

    we knew the weight of new engine already?
    sdelanounas isn't a random blog. Actually, it has become one of the largest index of made in Russia or Russian development. It talks about all pure agreements, development, exports, manufacturing etc. It also has a spot on one of Russia's TV programs as they have a segment of a weekly update. They always link the source from where they get it from, and when interviews are done and names are named (no anonymous sources) then it becomes very trust worthy.

    Essentially sdelanounas became one of Russia's largest in reporting of development. They were expanding to Ukraine prior to maiden in 2014 and also doing one for Kazakhstan and other CIS nations.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by meme expert
    Mig-31bm , blogs are most definitly not always reliable sources for information since you are in most cases listening to other peoples opinion , but if someone had copy pasted an interview in a blog then i dont see where is the problem.
    You seem to have some red mark on blogs, but it really depends.
    i think it would not refer as side + main arrays because at this point it will be ~1500(maybe even more as of now) + 400 + 400 = 2300
    Some blog could be decent for you to skimmed for information, but most are only as reliable as Wikipedia. Sometimes authors rephrase interview to fit his agenda, so if an official source is available, it is better to quote them directly.
    I think they referred to total arrays because they talked about how AESA operates in the previous sentences and both frontal and side arrays are AESA.
    Quote Originally Posted by shependox
    It also has a spot on one of Russia's TV programs as they have a segment of a weekly update
    Indeed, I wasn't aware of that, what program is that
    Last edited by mig-31bm; 29th September 2017 at 04:50.

  5. #275
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    sdelanounas - sdelano u nas - done with us or made by us

    T-50 will be rated at 12 G max most probably
    I doubt that the manned supersonic fighter will exceed 10 G
    Last edited by paralay; 29th September 2017 at 06:03.

  6. #276
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    what is meant by fineness ? what is its formula?
    All the formulas in the cells can be viewed

    fineness - I do not know how it is in English, lift : aerodynamic resistance = ...

    the combat load is given as 6000 kgs for T-50
    the combat load of a modern fighter is not more than 26% of the maximum take-off weight: 34257 kg * 0.26 = 8907 kg
    Last edited by paralay; 29th September 2017 at 18:11.

  7. #277
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    we knew the weight of new engine already?
    In different interviews and the Tvzvezda documentary the chief designer of NPO has mentioned about the reduced weight of Item - 30 over AL-41F1. As for 150 kgs I assumed it to be the most likely reduction in weight since 117 weighed 150 kgs less than AL-31FP. It's a guess. The actual reduction can be a bit less or more.

    The main and cheek aesa arrays together have a total of 1552+404+404=2360 which isn't around 2000. So for certain that around 2000 is for the nose array only.

    I doubt that the manned supersonic fighter will exceed 10 G
    .

    Yes, but sometimes in a dogfight you unwillingly pull more than 9 Gs for a few seconds. More like instantaneous G pulling. So almost all fighter acs are rated at more than 9Gs. I remember reading somewhere that although the MiG-29 is rated at 9G,the airframe can sustain 14 G turns all day long. The Mirage 2000 is stressed for 11G but the official specs will say - 3/9 G. There's always some extra Gs which is accounted for. In a Dogfight documentary, probably on Desert Storm I remember a F-15C pilot saying something about pulling 12Gs. But even the Eagle is rated at 9 Gs.

    the combat load of a modern fighter is not more than 26% of the maximum take-off weight: 34257 kg * 0.26 = 8907 kg
    It doesn't apply any more. Take the Rafale for instance. It's max weapons payload is 9.5 t. Mtow is 24.5 tons. 38.77 percent of the Mtow.
    Last edited by Arihant; 29th September 2017 at 07:21.

  8. #278
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    @arihant
    On a general level, Paralay is correct about max weight, its called MTOW. What room for shifting such numbers, is you take flight with less fuel and more ordinance.

    And the max weight for ordinance is often a matter of teoretical rather than practical figures. It is very depending on each hardpoints certified weight tolerance.

    The 9.5ton on Rafale is more on the Teoretical side of this max weight. That goes for all fighters. Its just not what you do when you plan your Pre-Flight mission. How ofte did F-16 Take-off from Italia on the Libya conflict with 8ton of Ordinance? Never.
    I'm willing to bet the Rafale never did combat mission with 9.5 tons of ordinance eighter.
    Last edited by haavarla; 29th September 2017 at 09:21.
    Thanks

  9. #279
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    @MiG-31BM
    it may be Russia24 if I am correct. Maybe Vesti.

    Video Strana seems to be their own actual broadcast as well.

    A lot of professionals and experts post articles on the site. I had the pleasure to talk to some of them regarding about microprocessor development like Elbrus and Baikal development, use, integrations, so on so fourth. It really is probably one of the best Russian websites I ever been to regarding collecting information on the countries development. I am not nearly as knowledgeable outside of the semiconductor field, so I like to talk with them about it. But they have really good segments on Army and Navy (which translate to Airforce as well). I wouldn't say they keep up with every bit of news on it, but the more critical points they talk mention.
    Last edited by sepheronx; 29th September 2017 at 14:46.

  10. #280
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    Name:  IMG_1521.PNG
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    What is this supposed to mean? Any one has an idea about this?

  11. #281
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    Buy one get one free Wednesdays at Rosel Pizza.

  12. #282
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    What is this supposed to mean? Any one has an idea about this?
    http://www.myshared.ru/slide/1263159/

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vnomad View Post
    Buy one get one free Wednesdays at Rosel Pizza.
    thanks, I needed that. Gave me a good laugh.

  14. #284
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    @Paralay, Do you happen to have the no of sorties and hours logged by the different Pakfa prototypes?

    @Haavarla, Haven't seen a Rafale take off on an operational strike sortie with 9.5 tons of payload.
    But am certain Dassault wouldn't quote 9.5 tons weapons payload if it was at the expense of internal fuel load. This 9.5 tons load is with the full internal load of 4.7 tons.

    The mtow of Rafale is 24.5 tons. This has been arrived at by taking 9.5 tons payload. 10.5t empty weight+4.7 the internal fuel+9.5 t=24.7 tons. Rafale C weighs around 9.5-10 tons empty. The M weighs a bit more.

  15. #285
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    @Paralay, Do you happen to have the no of sorties and hours logged by the different Pakfa prototypes?

    @Haavarla, Haven't seen a Rafale take off on an operational strike sortie with 9.5 tons of payload.
    But am certain Dassault wouldn't quote 9.5 tons weapons payload if it was at the expense of internal fuel load. This 9.5 tons load is with the full internal load of 4.7 tons.

    The mtow of Rafale is 24.5 tons. This has been arrived at by taking 9.5 tons payload. 10.5t empty weight+4.7 the internal fuel+9.5 t=24.7 tons. Rafale C weighs around 9.5-10 tons empty. The M weighs a bit more.
    Not that i do not believe you. But do you have any sources on that?
    Each Stationed certified max weight and what kind of ordinance would make up for 9.5tons.
    Last edited by haavarla; 1st October 2017 at 11:12.
    Thanks

  16. #286
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    Haavarla, I do not have info of each station certified max weight. I only know about the mtow, empty weight, internal fuel and weapons payload.

    https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en...formance-data/

  17. #287
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    Rafale

    Takeoff weight:
    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) = 15260 kg

    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 740 kg (4 Meteor) + 448 kg (4 MICA) = 16,448 kg. Radius of 700 km, the range of 2000 km. Fuel consumption 2.35 kg / km

    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 740 kg (4 Meteor) + 448 kg (4 MICA) + 2,200 kg (EFT, 1765 kg of fuel) = 18 648 kg, the total weight of 4700 kg of fuel + 1765 kg = 6465 kg.
    Radius of 840 km, range 2440 km. Fuel consumption 2.65 kg / km

    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 740 kg (4 Meteor) + 448 kg (4 MICA) + 2750 kg (2 EFT, 2200 kg of fuel) = 19 198 kg, the total weight of fuel 4700 kg + 2200 kg = 6900 kg.
    Radius of 910 km, range 2600 km. Fuel consumption 2.65 kg / km

    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 740 kg (4 Meteor) + 448 kg (4 MICA) + 2540 kg (2030 kg CFT 2) = 18 988 kg, the total weight of 4700 kg of fuel + 2030 kg = 6730 kg.
    Radius of 945 km, range 2700 km. Fuel consumption 2.5 kg / km

    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 896 kg (8 MICA) + 2200 kg (2 EFT, 1765 kg of fuel) + 2750 kg (2 EFT, 2200 kg of fuel) = 21 106 kg, total weight of 4700 kg of fuel + 1765 kg + 2200 kg = 8665 kg.
    The range of 1050 km, the range of 3000 km. Fuel consumption 2.89 kg / km

    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 740 kg (4 Meteor) + 448 kg (4 MICA) + 4125 kg (3 EFT, 5295 kg of fuel) = 20 573 kg, the total weight of fuel 4700 kg + 5295 kg = 9995 kg.
    The range of 1155 km, the range of 3300 km. Fuel consumption of 3 kg / km

    Ferry configuration:
    10,460 kg (empty) + 100 kg (pilot) + 4700 kg (fuel) + 2750 kg (2 EFT, 2200 kg of fuel) + 4125 kg (3 EFT, 5295 kg of fuel) = 22,135 kg. fuel weight 4700 kg + 2200 kg + 5295 kg = 12,195 kg
    Flight range of 4,000 km. Fuel consumption of 3 kg / km


    6 AASM * 340 kg = 2040 kg, 112 кг * 4 = 448 kg, 2040 + 448 = 2488 kg
    6 GBU-12/22 * 230 kg = 1380 kg, 4 * 112 kg = 448 kg, 1380 + 448 = 1828 kg
    3 GBU-10 + 4 MICA = 3489 kg + 448 kg = 3937 kg - max. weight weapons
    Last edited by paralay; 1st October 2017 at 17:58.

  18. #288
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    @Paralay, Do you happen to have the no of sorties and hours logged by the different Pakfa prototypes?
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1298197....ly#add_comment

  19. #289
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    Each Stationed certified max weight and what kind of ordinance would make up for 9.5tons.
    2 SCALP EG missiles (1300 kg each), 3 fuel tanks (2000 l each) plus 4 MICA AAMs should be pretty close to that if you include weight of pylons, tanks, ammo, countermeasures and pilot.

    This load has been used in Operation Chammal, with only one MICA though:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  20. #290
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    2*1300 kg + 4 * 112 kg = 3048 kg

  21. #291
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    plus 6000 l of fuel = 4800 kg
    weight of pylons and tanks unknown, let's assume same as F-16's 600 gal tank: 3 x 300 lbs (pylons) + 3 x 400 lbs (tanks) = 2100 lbs, or about another 1000 kg.

    add another 2 A/G pylons, 2 AAM pylons plus expendables, thats at least another 500 kg.

    3048 + 4800 + 1000 + 500 = 9348 kg. Leaves just enough room for a pilot.
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  22. #292
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    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  23. #293
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    The metallic grey paint is missing at some areas at the front of the wing. Is this portion coated with Ram?
    Why did Sukhoi leave this area unpainted?
    Is the final layer of paint applied over the Ram treated surface or the Ram itself forms the final layer?

  24. #294
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    That is not unpainted....

  25. #295
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  26. #296
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    Nice pic:

    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  27. #297
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    Pakfa release weapons in public.. when ;w; ?

  28. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthflanker View Post
    Pakfa release weapons in public.. when ;w; ?

  29. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthflanker
    Pakfa release weapons in public.. when ;w; ?
    If I were a gambling man, I'd wager this hasn't happened once so far, not even in secret.

  30. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    If I were a gambling man, I'd wager this hasn't happened once so far, not even in secret.
    Concur. There's no reason whatsoever for weapons release to be classified. The pak fa is as much a political/propaganda weapon as it is a military one. A show of strength would be to demonstrate capability at the first opportunity and broadcast in full 4K glory.

    They simply haven't done it. Internal weapons is a roadmap item and they're going operational with an evolutionary improvement over the flanker rather than revolutionary.

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