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Thread: Su-57/T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA News/Discussion 08/2017

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    Su-57/T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA News/Discussion 08/2017

    So, a new thread for Russia's latest and now officially designated fighter.

    No idea what iteration this is, and as the previous one is AWOL, no link either.

    Let's hope this one will not disappear, and attempt to increase its chance of survival by keeping speculation reasoned and the tone civil.

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    I honestly have no idea what got the last thread deleted. Really nothing in there had any kind of behavior that hasn't been seen here before, or even recently, and not even a warning from moderators either.
    Last edited by RadDisconnect; 4th February 2018 at 14:19.

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    Moderators dont care about anything on here, they dont give us any explanation cause they dont think they owe us anything.

    But anyway, hopefully this one wont be as a dumpster fire of a thread unlike the previous one. T-50-9 landing in Kubinka to be showed off to Shoigu;


    https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/d...2/view/1398997

    Open in a new tab for original res. Note atleast one KS-O is back.

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    The su 57 is Russia's flagship fighter. These threads will always run a little hotter than most because it is relevant to the new cold war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkut
    T-50-9 landing in Kubinka to be showed off to Shoigu
    Interesting details on the inlet (brace supporting the upper outer corner, already seen on 058, having checked back) - also first instance of 101KS-P (not installed, but the aperture is clearly there)?

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    Good eyes Trident (inlets bracing)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (before)

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    I didnt spot it previously either, T-50-7 (and most likely 6-2 too) has it too;



    And yeah, forgot to mention KS-P, looks like a very basic mock up.

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    What is that small circular opening right above the fuel probe?
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

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    Berkut's pic above gives a really detailed view of the BLC on the inlets. Several vents on the sides, above, and below.

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    also first instance of 101KS-P (not installed, but the aperture is clearly there)?
    What is the function of 101KS-P? The IRST is gone this time. A dummy is there instead.

    The maws,laser emissions warner suite on the Su-35S is much more compact and occupies less volume compared to the KS-U. Still instead of going for a proven solution like the maws suite for the Su-35s, Sukhoi opted for w whole new design for the Pak-fa. Is it possible that the KS-U offers more functionality than that suite. Like rather than just being a maws suite,it provides IR imagery of the surroundings and increases the situational awarness of the pilot in the manner of AAQ-37.
    Last edited by Arihant; 24th August 2017 at 07:03.

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    The fact that the definitive suite have both IR than UV sensors could allow such a theory: using a two band detection mode instead of the IIR sensor of the american system.

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    India should co-produce stealth fighter with Russia, says top panel

    “We were given a task and we have submitted our report to the government. That’s all I can tell you,” Varthaman told HT, refusing to share the details of the report. The committee has pointed out that India would significantly gain from partnering with Russia through the transfer of cutting-edge technology, sources said. The four-member panel looked into various aspects of the project for around five months.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    TomcatViP
    Good eyes Trident (inlets bracing)

    Attachment 255402
    (before)
    Where is this bracing you're talking about? I see the main landing gear door actuator/link, but I don't see the inlet support. Do you mean the bump at the upper right inside the inlet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundog View Post
    Where is this bracing you're talking about? I see the main landing gear door actuator/link, but I don't see the inlet support. Do you mean the bump at the upper right inside the inlet?
    In the upper BL diverter gap, on the outboard corner:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for pointing that out, I see it now.

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    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

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    @Sundog

    Yeah I didn't know either. These guys with the sharp eyes gotta point these things out a little better.

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    Hey, is there any sort of official page (user, manufacturer) or official claim (high ranking official cited by name in an interview) which offers thrust figures for 117 engine for Su-57? I recently realized 117S engine has such sources, but 117 variant is more elusive... But I could be just looking in the wrong places.

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    Im looking for it too. and apparently there is more to 117 differences to 117S. 117S for Su-35S already feature "non oxygen" plasma ignition system

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    From what I remember from official sources , I dont have the link now

    117 engine has thrust of 14.5 - 15 T , It is 150 Kg lighter compared to Al-31/117S series engine and has 80 % new components compared to 117S engine .....All this has been mentioned in different official interview by designer from time to time.

    I am posting link with Interview with Chief Designer UEC and ex Chief of UAC Mikhail Pogosyan
    Some links

    http://www.russiandefenseblog.org/ru...ady-installed/
    Russia’s fifth-generation stealth fighter jet will have a custom made new engine, Sukhoi General Director Mikhail Pogosyan said.

    “Claims that the fifth-generation jet allegedly has an old engine are wrong. Such claims are made by people with limited knowledge,” he said
    .

    The Saturn Research and Production center made digitally-controlled engines of Project 117 for the new jet. The engine thrust was enlarged by 2.5 tonnes, as compared with the AL-31 engines, while the engine weight was cut by 150 kilograms. That allowed the new jet to move at a supersonic cruise speed, Pogosyan said.


    “This engine meets the client’s requirements. This is not an intermediate product made particularly for test flights. The engine will be installed in jets, which will be supplied to the Russian Air Force and prospective foreign clients,” he said.

    There will be another engine in the future, but it will take ten to twelve years to develop, Pogosyan said.
    http://vpk-news.ru/articles/8228

    interview with "MIC" Yevhen Marchuk, chief designer and director of the Scientific and Technical Center named after a . Swinging IV - branch of JSC "NPO" Saturn "United Engine Building Corporation.



    Here is the engine for the PAK FA will surpass even though all the parameters already established motors, however will be made using the already available scientific and technical base. Of course, there will be new ceramic materials can withstand very high temperatures. High-pressure turbine can operate without cooling blades, bearings - no lubrication. Inlet temperature exceeds the temperature of the combustion theater kerosene at 2300 degrees. This will limit opportunities to improve the parameters of modern aircraft engines. The current shape of the engine will continue for fifteen to twenty years. Much depends on how quickly begin to improve material properties.


    Q- This is a more distant prospect. Let's still talk about our time. What is the current engine for the PAK FA?


    Now for the PAK FA engine is made with the symbol "product 117". He is at the stage of preliminary test - bench and flight, which take place successfully. Some elements borrowed from developments in the creation of the engine "117S" for the Su-35, in particular the methods and design calculations, process technology complex structural elements.


    Engine "117C" - is by no means an easy upgrade of the AL-31F, as sometimes you can read in the press. Thrust on his two tons higher than the AL-31F. Get these two tons in the same dimensions is not easy. The engine is a new low-pressure compressor. Substantially upgraded high-pressure compressor. The new combustion chamber. The new turbine. Almost all new units. The engine is 80 percent of new parts.

    And the "product 117" for the PAK FA first stage (T-50) pull more than the "117C". In addition, it is a fundamentally new system of automatic control system (ACS) - fully digital, with full responsibility. For the first time it will be built at the Russian element basis. Architecture of the system, the control algorithm and its Russian counterparts. We want the cell and the base was Russian, although we have a list of permits for the use of foreign bases. Such a domestic engine building was not yet. To solve this problem of the Russian Federation Industry and Trade Ministry allocates funds. Carried out research work under the name "ACS promising products." Selected a good team of designers ACS, there is a certain reserve, and we are confident of success.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    Thanks! I don't see why such interviews could not be cited in wikipedia articles.

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    totoro , Can you or anybody here update wiki with that information , Thanks
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    https://vpk.name/news/191114_minobor...rd_rublei.html

    The defense Ministry has filed a lawsuit to "Dry" more than 5 billion roubles

    No details. Does anyone have any idea what this may be about?

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    @ Austin- how do you get 80% new components compared to the -117S? The interview said "80% newer components to the AL-31F" not AL-41F1S.

    I thought the primary difference between the -41F1S and the -41F1 was newer FADEC, slightly more thrust.

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    Military engines has more science involved. it is not just upgrade of previous engines like civil engines.
    https://www.plm.automation.siemens.c...mponent=204766
    Launching the PAK FA ahead of time
    The T-50 fifth generation multirole fighter is a milestone project for the Russian aerospace industry. NPO Saturn is participating along with other companies of United Engine Corporation. The primary developer is the Lyulka Engineering Center’s Moscow office. “Product 117” is the in-house name of the engine intended for the advanced front-line stealth aircraft, the PAK FA.

    According to Zelenkov, Siemens PLM Software’s technologies have helped NPO Saturn to significantly reduce engine development time. “Military developments are more science-driven than commercial ones,” he says. “For example, materials science plays an important role. That is why it takes more time. Still, Product 117 has been developed ahead of time thanks to digital modeling and early engineering analysis.”

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    @FBW Check the interview he mentiones the following differences between 117 and 117S

    there will be new ceramic materials can withstand very high temperatures.
    High-pressure turbine can operate without cooling blades, bearings - no lubrication.
    Inlet temperature exceeds the temperature of the combustion theater kerosene at 2300 degrees.
    The engine is a new low-pressure compressor.
    Substantially upgraded high-pressure compressor.
    The new combustion chamber.
    The new turbine.
    Almost all new units

    Add to that a weight reduction of 150 kg which is no small achievement , reducing 1 Kg of weight is a challange
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    Last edited by Scar; 10th September 2017 at 11:49.

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    And they are supposed to have a missile launched from an oblique trapeze out of this canoe?!

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    yes

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    the massive EFT on a short pylon does not appear to offer much margin...

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