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Thread: Su-57/T-50/PAK-FA/FGFA News/Discussion 08/2017

  1. #1201
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by RALL View Post
    oh yes, it is very big successful fight against Syrian rebels without any air force for protect to them.But last week Wagner mercenaries saw how RuAF protected to them from coalition airforce, jeje.
    How is that any different from most if not all Western interventions since 1991?

    Quote Originally Posted by soyuz1917 View Post
    The entire Russian campaign in Syria is pretty much the most successful major foreign intervention in the entire post WW2 period. Give credit where it is due. They understood the local politics and culture. They won the right proxies. They applied the right amount of force. They never strategically overextended. They fought like professionals and in many respects rewrote the textbook. With a Force of between 4-6000 men and an air arm pretty much never exceeding 42 fast attacks they retook half the country for Assad, lost historically trivial numbers of men and material in the process , and showed up the US to the point of driving US policy makers and fanboys to near hysterics over it. And we all know how east Syria is going to go. Iran and Russia are going to lobby Iraq to close the border and starve out the FSA elements and Iraq will ultimately do it after extracting sufficient economic concessions because at the end of the day the Iraqis want the Americans and the YPG/FSA gone the hell away and with Kurdistan being totally landlocked that's the end of it. That the American are dragging this out and letting so many people die in a bid to delay the inevitable says all that needs saying about them....
    If you consider Russian geopolitical strategy smart (and it bears mentioning that not thinking so is not the same as thinking US perspective is any more constructive!) then yes, for the moment things are going well. I'm hesitant to tot up a score at this point however, it's far too early to draw a conclusion from a situation which is after all ongoing because...

    Quote Originally Posted by J-20 View Post
    speaking of Syrian operations

    It seems inevitable Syria will clash with Turkey.
    Recently Turkey invaded the Kurdish area, and the Kurds asked Syria for support which they did.

    Where will Russia stand on this. side with their long time ally? or side with their new friend that they can pull away from the US?
    This kind of thing is the crucial issue. This conflict is such a complex mixture of interests that there always remains a risk that various alliances might fracture, leading to the whole thing getting out of hand.

    And that could hardly be considered clever or successful.

    Let's keep the more general geopolitics of the Syrian war out of this topic however - this is the PAK-FA thread!
    Last edited by Trident; 24th February 2018 at 19:55.

  2. #1202
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    hmm, i'm highly sceptical about this..
    Sputnik probes another two Su-57 arrived in Syria.

    Personally i think Sputnik is mostly full of crap.

  3. #1203
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Russia's Su-57 Deployment in Syria Is a Dangerous Farce:

    -Russia's Su-57 Deployment in Syria Is a Dangerous Farce

    Late in the evening on Feb. 21, 2018, a photograph appeared on social media purportedly showing two Russian Sukhoi T-50 prototype stealth fighters — also known as PAK-FAs or Su-57s — in the sky over Hmemmem air base in western Syria.

    While the photograph was rather blurry and could not be precisely geo-located, by the morning of Feb. 22 two videos appeared on the same social media depicting almost the same scene. A pair of T-50s escorted by an Su-35 interceptor. The authenticity of the photo and videos is still in question.

    But if T-50s are in Syria, it’ll be interesting to see how the Kremlin spins the deployment. Back in November 2017, Russian president Vladimir Putin ordered most of the Russian military contingent in Syria to withdraw, two years after Moscow intervened in the ongoing regional war.

    Despite Putin’s order, two T-50s appeared in Syria along with a Russian air force A-50 radar plane, four Su-25 attack planes and four Su-35s fighters. The warplanes arrived in Syria following weeks of intensive air strikes by Russian planes targeting areas controlled by anti-regime rebels in Idlib and East Ghouta.

    In other words, the T-50s’ deployment could be further proof that Putin’s withdrawal order was a lie.

    The T-50 program has suffered a number of long delays since the type’s first flight in 2010. Early on, Russian officials announced that the type would undergo state acceptance trials in 2013 and enter operational service in 2015. That didn’t happen. By 2013, the plan was for the T-50 to enter production in late 2016.

    To that end, in 2016 the Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design completed seven N036 radars designed for T-50s, three of which were installed on prototypes T-50-3, T-50-4 and T-50-5. All of these were in so-called “reduced configuration,” which means they had only a front-facing antenna and lacked the side-looking arrays. There has been no testing of the T-50’s fire-control system nor any kind of live weapons trials for the type.

    On the contrary, the T-50 has suffered one failure after another. Most of the first five prototypes have developed severe structural problems, engine breakdowns and mishaps with cockpit glazing. India had agreed to co-finance the T-50, but well-placed Indian sources reported that the T-50’s engines were unreliable, its radar inadequate and its stealth features badly engineered.

    Unsurprisingly, Moscow and Sukhoi failed to agree on further Indian financing. The Indians have instead asked for information from the United States regarding its F-35 stealth fighter.

    Sukhoi rushed five available T-50 prototypes to the air force’s State Flight Center Base No. 929 at Akthubinsk in September 2016 to have them flight-tested by Russian military pilots. Rumor has it that in the same year, one of the T-50s released a weapon of unknown type from one of its internal stations for the first time. However, no testing was ever confirmed. The prototypes have only appeared carrying dumb bombs or dummy R-77 air-to-air missiles on underwing pylons.

    In early 2017, Sukhoi launched development of an entirely new integrated avionics suite for the T-50 designated IMA BK. The original integrated avionics suite, under development since 2004, proved insufficient. The IMA BK suite is years away from entering service.

    Later in 2017, Mikhail Pogosian, CEO of United Aircraft Company – the consortium controlling Sukhoi and all of the Russian aviation industry – left his position. Pogosian was the only UAC director with industrial management skills. To say that this collapsed the entire T-50 project would be an understatement. The Ministry of Defense in Moscow in late 2017 slashed T-50 procurement to just 12 copies for now.

    These 12 prototypes are supposed to undergo further research and development … by 2025. Considering that Sukhoi has already assembled at least 10 of these, this means that production has essentially been terminated.

    In reportedly deploying T-50s, the Kremlin is outright gambling with precious prototypes and their pilots’ lives. It has sent into an active combat zone two supposedly “stealth” fighters that are anything but stealthy, that possess inadequate and incomplete sensors, incomplete fire-control systems and self-protection suites, no operational integrated avionics and are powered by unreliable engines. They have undertaken hardly any weapons-separation testing except for two types of free-fall dumb bombs and lack any other operational weapons bar their 30-millimeter internal cannons.

    On the top of that, the aircraft are then going to be flown by pilots who lack any kind of doctrine or tactics for the type and who cannot really depend upon the planes’ avionics and other systems.

    'Rumor has it that in the same year, one of the T-50s released a weapon of unknown type from one of its internal stations for the first time. However, no testing was ever confirmed. The prototypes have only appeared carrying dumb bombs or dummy R-77 air-to-air missiles on underwing pylons.'

    Weapons bay test has never been confirmed.

  4. #1204
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Hurry, someone pls notify the Russian MoD, that they must withdraw their Su-57 from Syria ASAP! Lives depends on it!

    Best Regards Quora

  5. #1205
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by FalconDude View Post
    As far as the argument that the planes are in Syria to be tasted in a saturated EM environment, I think it is laughable and dangerous to consider t as a reason. First of all, the Russians will have no idea what kind of signature the plane will show to the radars there! Unless you want to suggest that the US planes/radars in the area will share their data!
    I think Trident has been provided a good explanation for Reseach and Development of the STEALTH fighters .

    Just to add something, then there are two developments has been occurring simultaneously with the program PAK-FA (Su-57): the first are the fighters itself with its systems and weapons, and the second are the tactics that will be used by Su-57. Both developments has been connected each way, and one way or another should be necessary to estimate the capabilities of the T-50 (Su-57) against systems that could be used against the Su-57 for tactics development, as well as improvements in prototypes before serial production .

    Indeed the US as well as NATO and Israel will not share the data of their radar systems with Russia about the performance of the Su-57 (T-50), but these data could have been obtained by other non-diplomatic means.In reason of that I could complement with others means to obtain data from non cooperatives nations under the perspective of Russia, like that:

    Indirectly, Russia can obtain data on the detection capabilities T-50( Su-57) by Western radars has been using the SIGINT (Signal Intelligence), ELINT (Electronic Intelligence) and COMMINT (Communications Intelligence) methods.

    In summary, the Su-57 (T-50) would have been used as bait for Western radars, or other systems as IR sensors, so that radars would initiate appropriate (and remain secret) search modes for detecting STEALTH fighters, and when it has been registering the operation of these radars as well as the reactions of the adversary's defense system, it could be possible to estimate the capabilities of those sensors.

    Another more direct approach to obtain information about Western radar systems about the detection capabilities from Su-57 (T-50) are through the HUMINT (Human Intelligence) method, this method has been working for thousands of years, since this method has been described in detail in an entire chapter of The Art of War.

    After all people talk, as well as: pilots, radar operators and analysts. Although many speak in encrypted communication channels, eventually someone always ends up talking outside them, or on some other channel encrypted by the Russia.

    Anyway, the main mission of the Su-57 (T-50) may have already been completed before it even landed in Syria, so I would not be surprised if the T-50s won a return trip to Russia in the first class area from heavy transport An-124.

  6. #1206
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    all of you are silly , we all know the pak fa will never perform any combat and will suffer gigantic problems until 2025, that is of course because the internet (absolutely relibale sources , that is) says so , as for the "planes" seen transfered to syria , well those are just holograms made of solid light , projected by RT and spitnook to make articles and cash in , you have been deceived by propaganda.

  7. #1207
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Trident
    That would imply they have been flying a LO aircraft design for the better part of a decade without putting a model on a pole or testing the actual prototypes against real radars in all those years. Apart from computer modelling the configuration in computational EM software before it even first flew, to find out if they were even on the right track. THAT seems laughable to me.
    I didn't suggest the russians didn't test the plane. I suggested that the deployment has no grounds, and the justification that it's because it needs to be in an EW saturated environment is a joke!

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