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Thread: Spitfire Crash - 1941? France?

  1. #1
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    Spitfire Crash - 1941? France?

    This original print in my collection has me stumped.

    No serial number visible. Last code letter seems to be 'O' - so LO? (602 Sqn)

    Must be post Nov 1940 (Sky band) but foliage suggests summer.

    If 602 Sqn, must be post 10 July 1941 when squadron moved to Redhill from Ayr.

    (Note also: fabric covered ailerons.)

    Anyone out there have any ideas? Inscription looks like: Absturz bei Desvres...?
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  2. #2
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    Sorry...no idea why they loaded sideways?!
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  3. #3
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    Doesn't help much, but the last letter looks like a G.
    Daren Cogdon

    Spitfire fanatic

  4. #4
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    Yes, I agree. Possibly LO - G ?
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  5. #5
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    My first reaction based on the style of the G is 501 Squadron so SD-G.

    Mark P

  6. #6
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    That might work!

    Glad you know your P's from your Q's...or should that be G's?!
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  7. #7
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    Hmmm...can't find any losses to match, though?
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  8. #8
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    P9464, X4854 AB279, AB374 & BM238 all SD-G at some stage in their service life.

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  9. #9
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    I don't think any of those 'fit'.

    PS - are you sure about P9464?
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  10. #10
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    That is what it says in my compiled files. Source unknown but probably a photograph interpretation.

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  11. #11
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    The number plate looks German as does the vehicle?

  12. #12
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    The crop has come off looks wheat, so late summer I am guessing
    SMOKE SMOKE GO!
    TA out

  13. #13
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    How about 266 Sqn - UO code?

  14. #14
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    The oil cooler looks like Mk.I/II (or very early V) to me, which might help narrow it down- unless, of course, you've all figured that part out already, OR I'm wrong in my interpretation!
    Last edited by Seafire; 6th August 2017 at 13:43.

  15. #15
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    On the back is written as location "Absturz bei Amiens"

  16. #16
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    Ah! If you are sure about Amiens, then that potentially narrows the search a bit.

    Yes, German vehicle with emblem on mudguard but cannot work out what it is.

    Not sure if this was a crop (cereal) field - or hay?

    Surely fabric ailerons discount a Mk V?
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  17. #17
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    With the proximity of Amiens to Abbeville, I'm thinking the emblem could be the stylised 'R' of JG2 'Richthofen'.

    The more I look at the original, the more I'm convinced that is what I can see!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmere1940
    The more I look at the original, the more I'm convinced that is what I can see!
    Beyond reasonable doubt?

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  19. #19
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    Err...no.
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  20. #20
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    Another possible Sqn could be 452 Sqn - coded UD. Both 266 and 452 look to have been operational over northern France in the Summer of 1941.

  21. #21
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    Surely fabric ailerons discount a Mk V?
    Well, not entirely- some early Vs (including Vas) were built with early oil cooler AND fabric ailerons. (A little while after I posted I remembered the callout of fabric ailerons in the first post.) Still, the oil cooler might be a good corroboration. I don't see any evidence of cannon in the wing, though I'll put more faith in other people's interpretation of that detail.

    Also, is not the center "dot" of the roundel the proportion associated with Supermarine, and not Castle Bromwich? If so, that (likely) eliminates the Mk.II...

  22. #22
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    Interesting note on the roundel...never knew that. I do note that early 1941 a number of aircraft were being repainted in the grey and green camouflage scheme. Would this have retained the original roundels or were they a complete repaint? Difficult to tell what scheme the pictured aircraft is in?

  23. #23
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    I think mid-August 1941 is the correct date for the change of scheme. Looking at the photo, the dark appearance of the red in the roundel, and the overall dark appearance of the upper (or at least side!) surfaces suggest the earlier scheme photographed on orthochromatic film.

  24. #24
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    Its not orthochromatic film. Ortho film darkens yellows so that they come out black. This is not the case here.

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    145 Squadron Va ("SO") is a possibility?

  26. #26
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    Indeed so! Another possibility to check. Thank you.
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  27. #27
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    And don't dismiss any squadron codes ending in 'U', if there are any. That apparent curve near the ground indicating a D or O could just be a bend in the skin or a piece of wreckage in the way.

  28. #28
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    P7977 SO-G.

    Mark




    .
    Last edited by Mark12; 7th August 2017 at 13:38.
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  29. #29
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    That doesn't work as a loss with 145 Sqn, but it was lost near Gosnay with 485 Sqn (OU codes) on 19 August 1941. Spitfire IIa.

    Too much of a stretch, perhaps, to imagine that P7977 retained its 'G' letter when it went to 485? Seems unlikely. Plus, 485s pattern/style of squadron codes seems much different.
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  30. #30
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    A good point but Ortho darkens red - there just happens to be an orange tint to MAP Yellow. However, there are photos that show the same trend on the Red and Dark Earth yet leaves the Yellow light: whether this is caused by a filter that has much the same effect on the red as ortho film or a filter used with ortho that affects the yellow too, I can't say. It would be unusual, I grant you, to have ortho film in German use; it seems to have been more a British thing.

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