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Thread: Indian Air Force Thread 21

  1. #511
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    RIP.

    the NG-ARM air launched anti-radiation missile news is really welcome news. It is clearly based on the Astra BVRAAM design, but significantly larger. We're also likely to see the NG-ARM integrated with the Tejas fleet and in the future, the Rafale fleet as well.

  2. #512
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    The Teja would gain a fantastic attractivity.

  3. #513
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    Yes and the SAAW based air to ground munition is also very likely to be integrated with the Tejas. being a 120 kg class weapon, it can be carried on double racks, allowing for a good standoff PGM strike capability in addition to the existing LGBs.

  4. #514
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    It wasn't known earlier that the Spice 2000 PGM had been integrated and tested on the Su-30MKI as well. It was thought of as being integrated only with the Mirage-2000


  5. #515
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    Beautiful. Perfect platform for this weapon.

  6. #516
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    @ Blackarcher,

    The mockup of Drdo Ngarm that was shown some time back had the exact same dimensions as the Astra Bvraam. The actual missile also doesn't seem to be longer than the Astra.

    As for the Saaw, four will be carried per hardpoint. It will be integrated on the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI and Tejas besides Jaguar.

  7. #517
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    If you see the image of the Su-30MKI that was carrying the NG-ARM, it was obvious that it was significantly larger in diameter than the Astra BVRAAM.


    Astra BVRAAM on Su-30MKI


    NG-ARM on Su-30MKI
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 10th October 2017 at 20:02.

  8. #518
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    @BlackArcher, The Ngarm is significantly larger in diameter than the Astra. But it seems to be similar in length to the Astra.
    The Ngarm surely weighs more than 140 kgs. More like upwards of 200 kgs. I remember the IAF complaining about the missile being over weight. Now things add up.

    The missile was supposed to be launched for the first time in Sept. The Brahmos - A was supposed. To have its first launch in August. Things are beyond schedule now.

    How many Jaguar, Bison and MiG-27 squadrons do we have now? I am confused about the numbers.
    Is it 5 or 6 for Jaguars?
    3 MiG-27?
    And are there any M / MF squadrons active now?

  9. #519
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    As per this article that was written in March 2017, only 2 IAF squadrons now fly the MiG-21M, No.35 'Rapiers' and No.108 'Hawkeyes'. I would expect these squadrons to be re-equipped with new jets soon. Either Tejas or Su-30MKI.

    As per a BRF poster, No.18 'Flying Bullets' will be the second Rafale squadron, after No.17 'Golden Arrows'. No.18 squadron was number plated in April 2016, with their MiG-27MLs being retired. As of now, there are 2 MiG-27UPG (upgraded) squadrons, No.10 'Daggers' and No.29 'Scorpions', both being based at Jodhpur AFS. Am not sure if any MiG-27MLs still fly or not or have been moved to reserve status pending retirement. All MiG-27MLs and MiG-27UPGs are slated to be retired in the next 2-3 years.

    As for Jaguars, there are 6 operational squadrons.

    These are the IAF's Jaguar squadrons- No.5 'Tuskers', No.6 'Dragons', No.14 'Bulls', No.16 'Black Cobras', No.27 'Flaming Arrows' and No.224 'Warlords'. No.224 'Warlords' is the latest Jaguar squadron, having re-equipped after retiring its MiG-23MFs that were last used as target tugs. They also have the youngest Jaguar fleet in the IAF, having been equipped with the Jaguar IS that were built by HAL in 2009.

    No.6 'Dragons' squadron, based at Jamnagar, flies a mix of Jaguar IS and IM and are tasked with maritime interdiction as one of their primary roles.

  10. #520
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    Thanks Blackarcher.

    Most sources say there are 3 MiG-27 squadrons which are currently active. Either one of No 22 Swifts and No 222 Tigersharks is operational.

    Regarding No 224 Warlords, do they have the full complement of 18 Jaguars IS/IB? Jags manufactured in 2009 and after that are mostly the IB variant.

    Do you have any pictures of No 9 Wolfpack Mirage? If so can you post them?

    Regarding the news of 33 squadrons in IAF against the desired 42, I think the media and most news agencies are off by 1 or 2.

    The squadron count is -

    MiG-21 - 8 squardrons
    MiG-27- 3 squadrons
    MiG-29 3 squadrons
    Mirage 2000- 3 squadrons
    Jaguar - 6 squadrons
    Su-30- 11 squadrons
    Tejas - 1
    Total-35

    This pic is from 3 years back. It was uploaded by Prasun Sengupta in a post in Trishul trident on March 30,2014.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Arihant; 16th October 2017 at 14:35.

  11. #521
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    No.9 'Wolfpack' squadron was the first to receive the upgraded Mirage-2000TI and Mirage-2000I fighters. I was able to confirm this from a Vayu Aerospace article.
    Then this would be a No.9 'Wolfpack' Mirage-2000TI



    And Angad Singh had taken some spectacular pics of Mirage-2000s at their Gwalior home base. This was a Mirage-2000H from No.9 squadron



    incidentally, KT201 is the first two-seater that was built for the IAF.

    The pilot's stare suggests that nobody told him I was going to be shooting at the runway that day! This aircraft is from No. 9 Sqn "Wolfpack" at Maharajpur.
    Sadly, the squadron markings, which were so much a part and parcel of IAF squadron's camouflage schemes, are no longer done. Never understood why they stopped that tradition.

    Another interesting titbit- Squadron No. 51 'Swordarms' (which flies MiG-21 Bison today at Srinagar AFS) and No. 52 'Sharks' (now reformed as the 'Suryakirans') were formed to be the first fighter squadrons to receive the Mirage-2000s back in 1984. However, ACM Lakshman Katre, then Chief of Air Staff IAF, wanted the IAF's premier squadrons to be equipped with the Mirages and hence No.1 'Tigers' and No.7 'BattleAxes' ended up getting the Mirages and their MiG-21Ms went to No.51 and No.52 squadrons. Not coincidentally, ACM Lakshman Katre was former CO of No.7 'BattleAxes'.

    This seems to have been repeated now, with the first Rafale squadron, No.17 'Golden Arrows' being a squadron that ACM Dhanoa formerly was CO of.
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 16th October 2017 at 19:54.

  12. #522
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    Thanks Blackarcher.

    Groundwork for S-400 deal is complete. Deal will be signed in December.

    http://forceindia.net/decks-cleared-...adms-december/

    Decks Cleared For the Contract Signing of S-400 ADMS in December
    October 17, 2017 forceindia 0 Comment
    [​IMG]Pravin Sawhney

    India will purchase five regiments of Russian S-400 Triumf Air Defence Missile System (ADMS) valued at over six billion dollars. The contract is slated to be signed after two months in December in New Delhi as the Contract-Negotiation-Committee (CNC) comprising Russian and Indian officials, which has been working furtively since July, has wrapped up its work. The Union finance ministry has cleared the purchase and the file is with the Prime Minister’s Office.

    It will be a government-to-government purchase with no provision for transfer of technology. Russia has assured that the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) — Almay-Antey Air Defence Corporation — will deal directly with the user, the Indian Air Force, to ensure timely product support. At present, all product support including spares and overhaul is done through Rosoboronexport, which is the official Russian export agency for arms sales.

    Since India hopes for an early delivery of S-400, it has not considered Moscow’s offer of credit line for the purchase. Instead, cash will be given in tranches. The first, or perhaps two regiments, could be delivered by early 2020.

    Each S-400 regiment comprises two batteries with four launchers each; this makes a total of 40 launchers for five regiments. Interestingly, India has ordered a total of 1,200 missiles in the very long-range and long-range category, with none in the medium and short ranges category. There will be fewer very-long range category missiles as compared with the other category.

    S-400 can fire four different missiles: the very long-range 40N6 missile with a range of 400km; the long-range 48N6 missile with a range of 250km; the medium range 9M96E2 with 120km range; and the short-range 9M96E with 40km range. The 40N6 is ideal to kill enemy Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACA), while the 48N6 will be able to destroy all air objects including airplanes, helicopters, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles up to the speed of 4,800 meters per second. The ballistic missiles are killed 60km away from the target; this includes nuclear armed missiles which once destroyed will leave a thick nuclear haze over the target. The ideal ballistic missile for destruction could be Pakistan’s Nasr which has been touted as the answer to Indian Army’s Cold Start doctrine on the international border, and the sub-sonic Babur cruise missile.

    Five regiments of S-400 will protect two to three major Indian cities including the capital city of New Delhi. In terms of configuration, India would need two surveillance radars each with phased array and multipath radar with range of 600km across 180 degrees to track up to 100 targets simultaneously. Moreover, each regiment which comprises two batteries with eight launchers will require one sectoral radar to acquire hostile target and pass its coordinates to the sectoral command post. Each Tractor Erector Launcher (TEL) which houses the missiles can carry four 48N6 missiles or two 40N6 missiles.

    India and Russia had signed the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for the purchase of S-400 on 15 October 2016 on the side-lines of the BRICS summit in Goa where Prime Minister Narendra Modi had sought an early agreement on the missile system from President Vladimir Putin. The S-400 purchase had been cleared earlier by the Defence Acquisition Council in December 2015. On the occasion of the signing of the IGA, the head of Russian Roctec, Sergey Chemezov had said that he hoped that “the contract would be signed by the middle of 2017. I believe the delivery will begin somewhere in 2020.”

    There is a queue for purchase of S-400; while priority goes to the Russian armed forces — which have been inducting the system since 2008 —, China and Turkey have already paid for the purchase. China has sought just one regiment of S-400, perhaps to cover its Taiwan flank. Moreover, there are reports that Algeria too have paid for two regiments of S-400. According to Russian officials, Saudi King Salman, who was recently in Russia on the trip with deep geo-political significance, spoke with the Russian President for an early purchase of S-400.

    The purchase of S-400 ADMS — which is known as SA-21 Growler by its NATO name was previously called S-300 PMU-3 — by India has signalled two things. One, India, which has adopted strategic and operational defensive posture against both Pakistan and China needs to protect its metropolitan cities and other high value targets from hostile AWACS (which have the dual purpose of air defence and offensive air operations), ballistic and cruise missiles. China has plenty of these assets and given its inter-operability (ability to fight together for common mission) with Pakistan, has transferred a large number of these to its closest ally.

    That India is willing to purchase the S-400 by cash payment is testimony to the hope that Russia might place India ahead in its exports queue. Moreover, India, which was keen that Russia integrates indigenous Akash short-range anti-missile system with the S-400 has now decided to save time by first going ahead with the procurement. In the Russian armed forces, the S-400 has been integrated with the TOR system for short range target destruction. Russia was, therefore, keen that India buys its TOR system too; but this has not made much headway at this juncture.

    The second clear signal from India is this: the Defence Research and Development Organisation cannot be trusted with real things. In a detailed conversation with me, the then DRDO chief, Padmashri Dr V.K. Saraswat had said in March 2010, “I will have all needed systems for Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) Phase-I (meant to hit medium-range ballistic missiles at ranges of 2,000km) including missiles, radars and all other elements required for strategic defence ready to protect New Delhi by 2013.” He had added that, “after that we will start work on Phase-II to cover ranges up to 5,000km.”

    The BMD missiles, according to him, would be able to hit and kill hostile ballistic missiles both outside (exo-atmospheric) and inside (endo-atmospheric) during its trajectory which re-enter the atmosphere after first entering space on its launch. The purchase of S-400 ADMS underscores that India has little faith in the indigenous BMD. Given this, it is time that technical audit be done on all DRDO strategic systems including the BMD, Agni series of missiles, and of its claimed anti-satellite capability to hit satellites in all orbits — low, polar and even geo-synchronous. Dr Saraswat had told me that unlike China which has repeatedly demonstrated its anti-satellite capability by killing of its own legacy satellite, “We will have no technical benefit by actual flying test of anti-satellite capability.” It should be remembered that unlike conventional war systems which are tested by the users before induction in their inventory, the strategic systems meant for nuclear weapons deliver are not tested. India has little option but to trust its DRDO on this crucial aspect.

    Regarding the total no of Tel, I guess there is some inconsistency. 40 TEL for 5 regiments with each regiment having 2 batteries and each battery having 4 TEL is too small a no considering how much we are paying. The seal is worth between 5-6 billion dollars.

    1200 missiles of the 40N6 and 48N6 type. Both of them can intercept missiles having a velocity of 4800 m/s. That's bm of the 3000-5000 km class.

    Also to be noted is that the Drdo developed BMD shield is being deployed to protect NCR and Mumbai. Radars are to be installed or are being installed at Alwar and in another village in Rajasthan for this purpose. So phase 1 of BMD is at last getting operationalised. Read somewhere that PMO is very eager to have the BMD shield operationalised and deployed. In this regard they wanted to do an audit of the entire BMD project.

  13. #523
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    HAL's Sukhoi engine division hands over 50th AL-31FP engine built from raw materials to IAF

    BENGALURU, OCT 24:
    The 50th AL31FP engine manufactured from the raw material stage by the Sukhoi Engine Division of HAL (Koraput) has been handed over to the IAF in Delhi as part of the 70th year celebrations of the India Russia diplomatic relationship.

    “The AL31FP engine powers the Su30 MKI and has been manufactured from the raw material stage by HAL. All the components, including heavy forgings, are manufactured at HAL,” said T Suvarna Raju, CMD.

    He handed over documents related to the 50th Raw Material Phase Engine of the Su-30MKI to Air Marshal S.B. Deo, VCAS.

    On the occasion, a coffee table book to commemorate 70 years of co-operation between HAL and Russian companies was also released by A. K. Gupta, Secretary (DP).

    Speaking on the occasion Gupta said India has received whole-hearted support for the Russian platforms and such support was important for strengthening bilateral ties.

  14. #524
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    IAF C-130J, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar fighters landed on a stretch of the Agra-Lucknow expressway to demonstrate readiness to land on stretches of road in case of conflict.
    C-130J




    Upgraded Mirage-2000I



    IAF Garud commandos disembarking from the C-130J to secure the strip





    Mirage-2000H


    Upgraded Mirage-2000TI







    Su-30MKI





    Jaguar
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 24th October 2017 at 19:26.

  15. #525
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    Pics cred: Angad Singh

    Jaguar IB


    Su-30MKI


    Mirage-2000TI


    C-130J

  16. #526
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    Here is something that will positively impact the availability of the IAF's huge Su-30MKI fleet.

    HAL to invest upto $615 million for Su-30MKI spares

    India’s state-owned aircraft manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will be investing up to Rs 4,000 crore (US$615m) initially to set up components store for maintaining the air force's Sukhoi fleet.

    “Availability of Sukhoi fighter aircraft is more important. The existing system is that the customer (IAF in this case) places an order on HAL which we either buy or manufacture and then supply it. It is not an efficient way of doing things. Now, if we can order in bulk and store it, we get a bulk discount too. We are looking at an initial investment of Rs 2,000 crore to Rs 4,000 crore as an initial investment depending on what one stocks,” T. Suvarna Raju, chairman and managing director, HAL told reporters on the sidelines of an event to mark the 70th anniversary of establishment of diplomatic relations between India and Russia, The Asian Age reports monday.

    A long-term agreement with Russia for the supply of spare parts and the rendering of technical assistance for five years for India's Sukhoi Su-30MKI aircraft was signed on March 17. The agreement will enable HAL to procure required spares directly from the original equipment manufacturers authorized by Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation.
    HAL has been manufacturing Su-30MKI under license from Russia since 2004.
    HAL is also responsible for after-sales support, snag disposition, on-site repair and rectification, aircraft modification, and upgrade and obsolescence management of the Indian Su-30MKI fleet.

  17. #527
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    Foundation stone for Dassault-Reliance Aerospace Park to be laid this week

    NEW DELHI, OCT 24:
    French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation and Anil Ambani-promoted Reliance Aerospace Ltd will this week lay the foundation stone of an aerospace park which will manufacture aircraft components for the Indian and the global market.

    French Defence Minister Florence Parlay, top officials of Dassualt Aviation and Chairman of Reliance Group Anil D Ambani are scheduled to attend the event in Nagpur on Friday, an official said.

    The Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace Park (DAAP) is being set up in the city’s Mihaan Special Economic Zone.

    The joint venture is being set up as part of Dassault’s offset obligations for the Rs. 58,000 crore deal to supply 36 Rafale fighter jets to India. The deal was signed in September last year.

    Spread over 289 acres, DAAP is touted to be the largest greenfield aerospace project in India. The joint venture will be the leading entity to execute the Rafale offset programme.

    “The aerospace park will have assembly lines and manufacturing facilities for fixed wing aircraft and will produce aircraft components for global markets,” said the official.

    The Dassault–Reliance partnership will bring in not only high level transfer of technology but also help develop the eco-system of the domestic aerospace sector and feed into the global supply chain, he said.

    A large number of Indian MSMEs are also expected to set up facilities at DAAP.

    The Dassault–Reliance JV has already shortlisted large number of vendors, mostly small-and medium-size enterprises, to be part of the supply chain at DAAP.

    “Production at the facility is expected to start in the first quarter of 2018, phase one will be fully operational by the third quarter of 2018,” said the official who wished not to be named.

    The Rafale combat aircraft will come with various India-specific modifications.
    This aerospace park will form a big part in the Make In India Program for Rafales that the French and Reliance Defence are now pushing, in place of the Single Engine Fighter program.

  18. #528
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    @Blackarcher

    Thanks for the pictures and the articles.

    If some posters at DFI and BRF are to believed then the IAF is aggressively pitching for more Rafales. It is now being said that more priority is being given to the Make in India Rafale program than the SE deal. There is a lot of chatter on the Rafales the past couple of days.

    It would indeed be great if another 54 to 72 Rafales are purchased for the IAF alone and the SE fighter program is scrapped all together. Then it is also being reported that Dassault is experimenting with detachable wingtip for Rafale M so that it fits into the 10m width of the aircraft lifts on IAC-1. Don't know whether this idea of detachable wing tips is feasible or how much of this is true.

    If we are to import Rafales off the shelf or even as SKD kits then the unit price will be significantly less. Assembling CKD kits and building the Rafale from ground up will certainly drive up unit costs. I remember reading an article where Eric Trapper states that an order of at least 100 Rafale is necessary for significant ToT and building the jets here in India.

    As of now two things are certain.
    -We are going in for more Rafales
    - Kaveri K9 will have the M88 core or a core designed by Safran based on the M88. The M88 fan and max Dia are lesser than those of the K9. The Kaveri is heavier, lengthier and has a bigger Dia than the M88. So we won't be having the same power plants for Rafale and Tejas but we will have an indigenous power plant whose majority components will be made here in India. I hear we will hold the IPR for the Safran designed core.

    54 more Rafale F3R, F4 and another batch of 42 - 50 Su-30MKi and we won't be needing any new single engine. A batch of 50 Pak-fa can also be acquired off the shelf to augment the nos.

    The SE MII program won't be significantly cheaper than hthe option for going for more Rafales. 54 IAF +57 IN and the unit price will also come down

  19. #529
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    Some pics from Indra 2017
    Looks like our boys flew in their Su-30M2.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #530
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    It would indeed be great if another 54 to 72 Rafales are purchased for the IAF alone and the SE fighter program is scrapped all together. Then it is also being reported that Dassault is experimenting with detachable wingtip for Rafale M so that it fits into the 10m width of the aircraft lifts on IAC-1. Don't know whether this idea of detachable wing tips is feasible or how much of this is true.
    I can affirm this part is true. (btw, present wingtips are only fixed using two screws)

  21. #531
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    Make in India for Rafale makes most sense if the IN also goes in for the Rafale M. The scale that could be then brought to a Rafale assembly line in India would be enough to make the Single Engine Fighter program moot. And best of all, it would give impetus to the IAF and HAL to push for the Tejas Mk2, which has slid into the background with the SE fighter program coming into the foreground.

    Meanwhile, Saab has organised a Gripen India Partnership Summit to bring together various suppliers of the Gripen, with various suppliers for a proposed MII program.

    link

  22. #532
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    ^^ What would most likely happen is in next 3-5 years MOD will place a repeat order of 38 more Rafale like the first order in an around the same number taking the squadron strength to 4-5 Squadron and let Reliance/Dassault facility do the MRO/Maintenace/Repairs stuff for Rafale in India possibly later even upgrade.

    There is an outside chance that Rafale might win the 50 odd contest for the IN and that would add to Reliaance portofolio but thats still a long shot.

    Had they completed the MMRCA deal within 5 years from RFP to Downright selection to signing of agreement then we would have seen Rafale lic built in India at the cost prevaling 10 years ago but due to long drawn out process for downright slection and equally longer time to sign the deal Rafale price have sky rocketed something now MOD cant afford irrespective of the lower cost that is now peddled in the media , Military inflation gallops
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  23. #533
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    Today was layed the first stone of DRAL. Except of Dassault communiqué

    DRAL will manufacture components for the Legacy Falcon 2000 Series of Civil Jets
    manufactured by Dassault Aviation and thus will become part of its Global Supply Chain.
    These first steps are expected to achieve in the coming yearsthe possible setting up of final
    assembly of Rafale and Falcon Aircraft.

  24. #534
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    2 short videos of a daring CASEVAC by pilots of an Indian Army Aviation Dhruv.

    Video part 1
    Video part 2

  25. #535
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    Video of the recent Mi-17 crash:

    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

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    Another successful test of the Smart Anti-Airfield Weapon (SAAW), from an IAF Jaguar, tested out to 70km range.


  27. #537
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    ndia's Nirbhay ( निर्भय ) cruise missile - flying test

    (nice piloting skills b/w)

  28. #538
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    Unbelievable! the MoD and its byzantine processes will likely lead to the last C-17 being sold to some other customer, not the IAF

    India on the verge of losing last available C-17 due to red tape

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    Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/t...1/1086425.html

    ocuments accessed by India Today reveal that the IAF has told the government that the "endurance" of Tejas in combat is just about 59 minutes as against 3 hours of Gripen and nearly 4 fours for the F-16. Also, Tejas can carry a pay-load of about three tons against nearly six tons and seven tons by the Gripen and F-16 respectively.

    "In other words, for target that needs about 36 bombs to be destroyed, one will have to deploy six Tejas as against just three Gripen or F-16," the IAF has told the government.

    The IAF has also said Tejas needs 20 hours of serving for every hour of flying as against six hours for Gripen and 3.5 hours for F-16.

    The cost of maintaining the Tejas is much higher than the other fighters. Also, both the F-16 and Gripen has a life-span of 40 years against just 20 of Tejas. And, in some areas the vintage Russian made Mig-21 is better than Tejas, the IAF is understood to have told the government.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  30. #540
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    Funny. Who wrote the requirements ?

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