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Thread: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread

  1. #2311
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    Like the french administration knows what respect is.

  2. #2312
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    the exact same aproach that LM took to the Indian Navy RFI for a Naval Fighter.
    Did the Indian Navy ask LM for an RFI on the F-35B/C or did LM just offer info outside of an RFI without being asked? (Source?)

    It sounds like the RFI was an open invite with no list of companies listed ahead of time.

    Here is the RFI (Jan 2017)
    http://tenders.gov.in/viewtenddoc.as...28&wno=1&td=TD

    4 companies responded but their names not released (May 31, 2017)
    http://www.ptinews.com/news/8754463_...r-jets-to-Navy

    Given that the names of the 4 have not (to my knowledge and 5 minutes of Google searching) been released, how can you say that LM is trying to go around the RFI process?

    Also, if LM did talk outside of the RFI process it would still not be the same as what the French are trying to pull as it's the "French Armed Forces Minister, Florence Parly" that is trying to go around Belgium's RFP and not just Rafale. That would be like SecDef James Mattis talking on behalf of LM.
    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 8th September 2017 at 18:23.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  3. #2313
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    It is exactly the same as Germany for Norway submarines for example.
    Dassault/French gov. consider that the RFGP was biased (eg no A2sea mission, extremely low weight for ToT and offsets...) . As they consider (like boeing and saab did) that rules are unfair, they try to change the rules... remember f-15K?
    Spudman, Hillary Clinton publicly proposed F-35 to India just after MMRCA.

  4. #2314
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    Spudman, Hillary Clinton publicly proposed F-35 to India just after MMRCA.
    I and others opposed her doing so for the exact same reason. Btw, it was an informal offer and not a reaction to an RFI/RFP. Still not the same thing as the French did.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  5. #2315
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    RFP answer is not contractual Spud. Only best offer in february is.
    Btw, i have an explanation from a thales guy about F-22 and to a lesser extent F-35 playing "quaterbacks" with european jetz during trilat : more powerful LPI mode, with more time compression (not needed on less stealthy jets).
    About respect, french MoA had a long talk with VandePut before releasing its proposal.
    Last edited by halloweene; 8th September 2017 at 20:05.

  6. #2316
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    I never said it was contractual, just that it is what Belgium had asked for.

    What France clearly wanted was to NOT be part of an open and fair competition which is why I asked "What are they afraid of?".
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  7. #2317
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    I never said it was contractual, just that it is what Belgium had asked for.

    What France clearly wanted was to NOT be part of an open and fair competition which is why I asked "What are they afraid of?".
    According to them an open and UNfair competition. I am not here to judge. I just transmit. As i said aove, some were stunned by the very absence of an Air to Sea scenario for a country like Belgium...

  8. #2318
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    If they think it's unfair, then they need to specify what part is unfair (it's 247 pages).
    Belgium even removed the nuclear requirement to allow for more bidders.
    http://www.vandeput.fgov.be/sites/de...Proposal_0.pdf

    Just saying "unfair" is meaningless.
    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 8th September 2017 at 21:51.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  9. #2319
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    Did Boeing elaborate on what they found to be unfair?

  10. #2320
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    Nope, and neither do I care as they are not trying to circumvent an "open" competition by doing a back-room deal like France is trying to do.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  11. #2321
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    Nope, and neither do I care as they are not trying to circumvent an "open" competition by doing a back-room deal like France is trying to do.
    It would not surprise me if the submission is rejected on legal grounds. First world military procurement policy is pretty strict and clear to avoid the possibility of subsequent legal action and given two other valid tender submissions appear to have been received there is no excuse the French can made to overcome that, irrespective of how unfair they may have considered the tender itself.

  12. #2322
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    France is trying nothing. France does nothing other than being awesome.

    Corrupt commies do that stuff.

  13. #2323
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    It would not surprise me if the submission is rejected on legal grounds. First world military procurement policy is pretty strict and clear to avoid the possibility of subsequent legal action and given two other valid tender submissions appear to have been received there is no excuse the French can made to overcome that, irrespective of how unfair they may have considered the tender itself.
    In fact no. There is a kind of special dispensation within european rules about security procurements. It is not like if a judgement from a "supreme court" was needed to cancel a call for proposal to rehash the RF rules (cf. KC46)

    /mode "humour" on : Finally, Belgium tender should be cancelled as there is a single vendor issue (BAE).
    Last edited by halloweene; 8th September 2017 at 23:37.

  14. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    In fact no. There is a kind of special dispensation within european rules about security procurements.
    Had a quick scan of the procurement rules and the associated EU contract documents and that doesn't appear to favour the French either way. It certainly doesn't force the Belgians to have to accept the bid. Given the Belgiam government has indicated they need to access the legality of the submission it clearly isn't black and white.

    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    It is not like if a judgement from a "supreme court" was needed to cancel a call for proposal to rehash the RF rules (cf. KC46)
    Humour acknowledged, but that was contested for a different reason, that the evaluation wasn't conducted as the RFT indicated, not that the tender documents weren't submitted on time or as specified by the RFT.

    It is quite common in western procurement to exclude a vendor because their submission does not meet the required framework. Accepting such a submission usually biases the evaluation as you need to interpret that submission against a different set of often unspecificed criteria, which seems possible in this instance.

  15. #2325
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    It is not like if a judgement from a "supreme court" was needed to cancel a call for proposal to rehash the RF rules (cf. KC46)
    IIRC that did not go to the Supreme Court but was a GAO decision to restart the process.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  16. #2326
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    Anw, i mean there is no such thing as fairness in weapon sales, is there?

  17. #2327
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    Certainly not any lack of cynicism.

  18. #2328
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  19. #2329
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    There is lots of weird stuff around the Nevada range. "Constant Peg"
    Last edited by djcross; 9th September 2017 at 14:19.

  20. #2330
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    Nah. But I did read that it "definitely wasn't an F-35" in the article you linked.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  21. #2331
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    There is lots of weird stuff around the Nevada range.
    Area 51 aka Groom Lake

    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  22. #2332
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    "about 100 miles northwest" is definitely Groom Lake. RIP Lt. Col. Shultz.

    Hopefully the TR-3B survived the impact.

  23. #2333
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    Tailhook 2017

    JPO Industry Rep ['Brick' Wilson] (20 minute mark) https://livestream.com/wab/tailhook2...deos/162471073

    Items of note:
    -- 21:50 - 6 x 2k JDAMS + (int) AMRAAMS + 9x going mach 1+
    -- 23:44 - some of the items changed to mitigate cat oscillation
    -- 25:30 - HMDS improvements to include an new "optical tracker" to get added to the inertial and magnetic trackers. A new OLED HMDS display is in the works to "eliminate" 'green glow'.
    -- 30:00 - F-35Cs participating in LFE (TopGun, Northern Edge, Red Flag ["releasable" 24:1 kill ratio "We Killed Everything" @ 3i])
    -- 27:30 - Some kind of issue on the B/C with IFR, no details given.
    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 11th September 2017 at 14:05.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  24. #2334
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    Items of note:
    -- 21:50 - 6 x 2k JDAMS + (int) AMRAAMS + 9x going mach 1+
    Why there isn't any afterburner flow?
    Last edited by mig-31bm; 11th September 2017 at 15:30.

  25. #2335
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    Lol. Because it's super cruising.

  26. #2336
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    Another Tailhook video
    OpNAV panel https://livestream.com/wab/tailhook2...deos/162483994

    -- 07:00 - Bill Swan (APW TacAir USMC) - F-35B info
    -- 12:30 - F_35C USN Status
    ---- 3 F-35Cs already loaded with Block 3F
    ---- Aug 2018 goal for F-35C IOC
    ---- Previously mentioned "fixes" to cat oscillations well received
    ---- OLED HMDS looks to be on track
    ---- Aim-9X outer wing panel fix is looking good too
    ---- F-35 generates nearly a terabyte of downloaded date per flight.
    ---- F-35C has been flying TopGun for two years.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  27. #2337
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    Why there isn't any afterburner flow?
    You can't really see if there is any reheat or not (can't see directly into tailpipe) . Certainly it's not full afterburner, but minimal reheat doesn't create a huge plume or shockwaves as seen below.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by FBW; 11th September 2017 at 18:47.

  28. #2338
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    bsolutely FBW. I've seen F-35 from a Mistral station in Paris, and flame is well hidden on the side.

  29. #2339
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    lol

    This is the 21st century... and not a Mirage III

    By the way, That guy looks so tired, please pay him some rest.

  30. #2340
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    Hi All,
    I have always preferred Boeings X-32 to the F-35 but have to admit this picture makes it look a stunner courtesy of FBW's post.....


    Geoff.
    Last edited by 1batfastard; 12th September 2017 at 17:07.

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