Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 37 of 39 FirstFirst ... 2733343536373839 LastLast
Results 1,081 to 1,110 of 1162

Thread: Chinese air power thread 18

  1. #1081
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584

  2. #1082
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    86
    I am surprised they did not give it the standard all grey paint.

    how long will it be before we see some new J-xx variant that is a copy of the su-35?

  3. #1083
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    990
    They have the paint job of the aggressor training squadron.

  4. #1084
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,293
    China just pwned the Philippines there.
    the International Court gave jurisdiction of that specific island to the Philippines, and China just disregarded it and did its thing.
    Shows how powerless a world court can be.
    The US made all the rules and set up shop in the area after the war. But China has earned the economic strength to throw its weight around in its own sphere. Philipines has also made overtures to China since that ruling. The Philipines can see the writing on the wall. Cant beat them, join them.

  5. #1085
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    Quote Originally Posted by Vans View Post
    I am surprised they did not give it the standard all grey paint.

    how long will it be before we see some new J-xx variant that is a copy of the su-35?
    Aggressor squadrons in the PLAAF have such paint scheme. Previously Su-30MKK had similar patterns but different colors - image.

    So it is likely these Su-35 are there to give PLAAF pilots of J-10, J-11, J-20 a good torture test. Su-35 will prove vital for the PLAAF developing new tactics especially using TVC. This is the 1st time a TVC enable fighter is in service with the PLAAF.

  6. #1086
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    9,703
    TVC is great tool, but hardly as much of a game changer as modern sensors and all-aspect IR missiles.

    If they were so interested in TVC alone, they could have bought a larger batch of 117S with TVC and still saved money on the purchase overall. Probably could have integrated them into one of the Flanker rip-offs they domestically produce.

    More likely they are interested in the combination of TVC, wing mounted AESA IFF (assuming they got it), the excellent mechanical + electronic scan ability of the Irbis, the OLS-35 (compared to the generation older sets they have on their Su-27s and 30s).
    Plus they got wing-jammers by the look of it, though how it stacks up to the domestic L-265M is anyone's guess.

    I also don't buy the purely aggressor training argument, but time will tell what the PLAAF does with its new premier fighters.
    Last edited by TR1; 9th February 2018 at 06:59.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9098/rsz11rsz3807.jpg

  7. #1087
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    544
    Even if we assume the Su-35s are not for aggressor training, what possible difference would such a small number make in the much greater scheme of things in terms of the PLAF? And yet, clearly there must have been a compelling enough reason to acquire these, as apposed to pressing ahead with the more advanced versions of China's own Flanker derivatives.

  8. #1088
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,293
    Did someone really suggest that China bought the su 35 to use as aggressors ? Its usually inferior aircraft that are used for agressors. Its not just TVC. The su 35 has super cruise and 5th gen avionics.

  9. #1089
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    Quote Originally Posted by TR1 View Post
    TVC is great tool, but hardly as much of a game changer as modern sensors and all-aspect IR missiles.

    If they were so interested in TVC alone, they could have bought a larger batch of 117S with TVC and still saved money on the purchase overall. Probably could have integrated them into one of the Flanker rip-offs they domestically produce.

    More likely they are interested in the combination of TVC, wing mounted AESA IFF (assuming they got it), the excellent mechanical + electronic scan ability of the Irbis, the OLS-35 (compared to the generation older sets they have on their Su-27s and 30s).
    Plus they got wing-jammers by the look of it, though how it stacks up to the domestic L-265M is anyone's guess.

    I also don't buy the purely aggressor training argument, but time will tell what the PLAAF does with its new premier fighters.
    No it is not just so for aggressors and training. If the J-11D gets delayed even further or is not up to what the PLAAF wants, they likely need to buy more Su-35. Lots more.

    When it comes exporting engines of AL-31 variations, Russia is not going sell any engine that might end-up in locally built flanker variants like J-11B. All Saturn engines sold are for existing flankers with contractual obligations. All other AL-31 variants are by Salut and are exclusive for Chengdu. And I should have been clearer it is not just about the TVC mechanism. China has been ground testing TVC since the 80s and 90s. Key thing about the Su-35 is the integration of the TVC with the FBW. Russians have been exporting TVC integrated fighters since the Su-30MKI. Russia has very mature TVC integration that China does not have. The other key things about the Su-35 for China is is the elimination of the airbrakes and canards. All J-11B variants use those giant airbrakes. Shenyang needs to know how to do that with the J-11B variants. Supercruise of the 117C might also be a plus but we don't know how well it supercruises with actual weapons attached. Regarding the avionics, I don't see how that is much of an attraction. J-10C and J-16 already have some components of the J-20.

    So China's potential adversaries have been flying TVC ebabled fighters for more than 10 years and that means they had at least 10 years to build the relevant tactics. China needs to adapt quickly. Su-35 is an excellent choice for this. From early rumors, China only wanted a handful for "testing purposes" but Russian were like "Full deal or no Deal".
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 10th February 2018 at 17:23.

  10. #1090
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    544
    Then that begs the question, why didn't the Chinese opt for TVC version of flankers all them years ago, like the Indians did?

  11. #1091
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Bravo View Post
    Then that begs the question, why didn't the Chinese opt for TVC version of flankers all them years ago, like the Indians did?
    Unlike today, China was not financially strong enough when the Su-37 1st flew. It is also possible that China underestimated the value of TVC back then. India on the other hand went all in with Su-30MKI. Then came the whole J-11B controversy. That pi$$ed the Russians a lot and they were not willing to sell some of their best equipment unlike the Indians or demanded China buy very large quntities to be bought upfront.
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 10th February 2018 at 17:23.

  12. #1092
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    Some J-20 pics:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (8).jpg 
Views:	4081 
Size:	380.6 KB 
ID:	258849   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (4).jpg 
Views:	4124 
Size:	139.3 KB 
ID:	258850   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (5).jpg 
Views:	7755 
Size:	186.6 KB 
ID:	258851   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (2).jpg 
Views:	4088 
Size:	253.0 KB 
ID:	258852   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (1).jpg 
Views:	4085 
Size:	216.2 KB 
ID:	258853  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J-20A - 20180209 - 3.jpg 
Views:	4153 
Size:	79.4 KB 
ID:	258854   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (3).jpg 
Views:	4093 
Size:	278.6 KB 
ID:	258855   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20A-20180210-1612-1 (7).jpg 
Views:	1312 
Size:	177.1 KB 
ID:	258856  

  13. #1093
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    "Where the fruit is"
    Posts
    5,217
    is that me of the front inlet bypass (the hexagon meshed surface on the side of the inlet) has been obturated?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J-20 FrontInletBypassObturated.jpg 
Views:	528 
Size:	159.0 KB 
ID:	258878
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 10th February 2018 at 23:50.

  14. #1094
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    "Where the fruit is"
    Posts
    5,217
    prb fixed: PS

  15. #1095
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    756
    I wasn't aware the J-20 had an engine fire in 2015. Did I just miss this or has it only recently been revealed? If so, interesting that all three new stealth aircraft, J-20, PAK-FA and F-35 have had engine fire issues during dev and test.

    Why China’s first stealth fighter was rushed into service with inferior engines

    China rushed its first advanced stealth fighter jet into service ahead of schedule last year, using stopgap engines, in the face of rising security challenges in the region, the South China Morning Post has learned. But that means its capabilities will be severely limited, affecting its manoeuvrability and fuel efficiency as well as its stealthiness at supersonic speeds. Without saying how many were in operation, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force confirmed on Friday that the J-20, the country’s fifth-generation fighter, had entered combat service, meaning it was combat-ready.

    However, the aircraft was equipped with inferior engines designed for earlier warplanes when it first joined the air force in March last year because “critical problems” with its tailor-made WS-15 engine, exposed by an accident in 2015, had not been fixed, two independent military sources told the Post.

    “The WS-15 engine designed for the J-20 exploded during a ground running test in 2015,” one source said, adding that no one was injured in the accident. “The explosion indicated the WS-15 is not reliable, and so far there is no fundamental solution to overcome such a problem … that’s why the J-20 is using WS-10B engines now.” The WS-10B is a modified version of the WS-10 Taihang engine, which was designed for the country’s fourth-generation J-10 and J-11 fighters.
    The explosion was confirmed by another source close to the military, who said the reasons it happened were complicated, with one being the quality control of its single-crystal turbine blades, the key component for such a powerful turbofan engine.
    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplo...rushed-service

  16. #1096
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozair View Post
    ...
    WS-15 has never powered the J-20. WS-15 is still years away. So far there have been no leaks on engine fires on the J-20 AFAIK. The article alleges that during ground testing of the WS-15 there was an explosion at one stage. I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing happened become this is uncharted territory for China. WS-10 development also went through a lot pain intially including a 2-year halt in powering the J-11B (2007 - 2009). But they eventually got it right and the WS-10 is now pushing towards 137 - 138 kN with the latest versions (WS-10X/IPE). So yeah, maybe there was an accident/explosion during ground testing of a WS-15, but not on a J-20. J-20 still uses AL-31FN/FM variant. There are 2x prototypes flying with WS-10X/IPE.

  17. #1097
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    756
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    WS-15 has never powered the J-20. WS-15 is still years away. So far there have been no leaks on engine fires on the J-20 AFAIK. The article alleges that during ground testing of the WS-15 there was an explosion at one stage. I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing happened become this is uncharted territory for China. WS-10 development also went through a lot pain intially including a 2-year halt in powering the J-11B (2007 - 2009). But they eventually got it right and the WS-10 is now pushing towards 137 - 138 kN with the latest versions (WS-10X/IPE). So yeah, maybe there was an accident/explosion during ground testing of a WS-15, but not on a J-20. J-20 still uses AL-31FN/FM variant. There are 2x prototypes flying with WS-10X/IPE.
    Thanks for that insight.

  18. #1098
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584




    Attached Images Attached Images  

  19. #1099
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    93
    no fire
    but yes, rushed into service

    j-20 stronk!

  20. #1100
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    J-20 prototype 2021 (WS-10X?)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20!-2012 (1).jpg 
Views:	3132 
Size:	173.2 KB 
ID:	258978   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J20!-2012 (2).jpg 
Views:	3051 
Size:	272.7 KB 
ID:	258979  

  21. #1101
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    J-16 with new camo

    https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/972463456849809409
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J16-1_cleaned.jpg 
Views:	119 
Size:	44.4 KB 
ID:	259352   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J16-2_cleaned.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	146.9 KB 
ID:	259353   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J16-3.jpg 
Views:	123 
Size:	108.4 KB 
ID:	259354  
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 11th March 2018 at 11:06. Reason: added another photo and gif

  22. #1102
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    J-16
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J16 (1).jpg 
Views:	502 
Size:	174.6 KB 
ID:	259480   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	J16 (2).jpg 
Views:	515 
Size:	348.3 KB 
ID:	259481  

  23. #1103
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    J-10A load
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  24. #1104
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    93
    looks like something the USAF would use.. in the 1990s.

  25. #1105
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Near Colombo, Sri Lanka
    Posts
    1,584
    20 years ago! The 1st flight of the J-10. I remember when the when the 1st leaks of the J-10 appeared the internet shouted "Fake", "PS job", etc, etc, not to mention the hideous insults.

    The tranformation of the PLAAF from flying rust buckets like J-5, J-6, J-7, J-8 less than 30 years ago to what it is today is simply astonishing no matter how you slice it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	b6765e8bgy1fpmgokwotdj20or0gpaf8.jpg 
Views:	167 
Size:	70.5 KB 
ID:	259560   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	b6765e8bgy1fpmgnynvpdj20p00gen4s.jpg 
Views:	160 
Size:	92.6 KB 
ID:	259561   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	b6765e8bgy1fpmgnynkmdj20p00gj442.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	67.0 KB 
ID:	259562   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	b6765e8bgy1fpmgnyq5unj20p00gi7ak.jpg 
Views:	144 
Size:	73.3 KB 
ID:	259563   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	b6765e8bgy1fpmgnytskpj20p00gm7b8.jpg 
Views:	155 
Size:	88.4 KB 
ID:	259564  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	b6765e8bgy1fpmgnywjvmj20p00dh116.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	106.7 KB 
ID:	259565  

  26. #1106
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    93
    to be fair, before the real j-10 was leaked
    the internet was flooded with these images coming out of Chinese posters





    then the same continued with the J-10


  27. #1107
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    20 years ago! The 1st flight of the J-10. I remember when the when the 1st leaks of the J-10 appeared the internet shouted "Fake", "PS job", etc, etc, not to mention the hideous insults.

    The tranformation of the PLAAF from flying rust buckets like J-5, J-6, J-7, J-8 less than 30 years ago to what it is today is simply astonishing no matter how you slice it.
    Don't forget that poor J-20 did not fare better. I remember, a self proclaimed so called China expert on a forum, calling it a PS'd flying shoebox amongst many such names. It is strange how his country is now planning to spend billions in order to counteract these shoeboxes, and yet such experts still have their shiny labels. I guess that happens in places where one does not want to face truth or is unable to take criticism. Thumbs Up!
    Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes

  28. #1108
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,292
    It's amazing to think that when it first flew the spotter plane was a J-6 (?)... Not even a J-7.


    In any case, I think the proliferation of PS and CGIs of J-10 and J-20 before pictures of them first emerged shows that paying attention to fan made PS and CGI is useful, and when paired with keeping track of Chinese insiders and credible rumours we can get a better gauge of what is actually happening and avoid getting surprised when new things are finally revealed.

  29. #1109
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    San Francisco, USA
    Posts
    867
    That’s not even a J-6, but a J-5! Probably a JJ-5.
    Last edited by Multirole; 24th March 2018 at 08:46.

  30. #1110
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,660
    @J-20

    looks like something the USAF would use.. in the 1990s.
    Jep. Like the F-16 block 50, you mean i.e. the only thing (partially) new that the Usaf introduced in the '90s.

    The USN introduced the Superbug about the same time and, surprise, surprise they are still acquiring them also now.

    J-10 is a delta with canard however i.e. the same tech level of Typhoon, Rafale and Gripen while both the j-20 and the j-31 are actually close to completion.

    So all the actual difference between them and the whole West is in those 187, pardon 185 now White Elephants that have spent more time grounded than in actual operations, right?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES