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Thread: Chinese air power thread 18

  1. #991
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    Well Chinese concluded that previous Tu-154M crashes are due to human error. they still using it for intelligence gathering.
    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplo...ey-part-chinas
    How an ageing Russian passenger jet became a key part of China’s military intelligence gathering
    Compared with the civil aviation industry, the PLA air force had a much stricter maintenance system – which it further strengthened after the two fatal crashes.
    Its pilots are also better trained to cope with critical operations and are often more experienced.

  2. #992
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7DZP1yRRy0
    AG600 first flight Take off
    Zhuhai Jinwan Airport.Camera by LG V20.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l1XuTTCJJc

    ...plus the now
    of course very well known CCTV video footage...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AIzFrHjQ8I
    Last edited by Stratofreighter; 25th December 2017 at 19:08.
    Per Tuesday 08 May 2018: FOKKER (photo)updates at http://www.airnieuws.nl

  3. #993
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    2017 Engine Advances

    1) WS-10 variant on J-20 bort number 2021

    2) WS-10X with AVEN nozzles on a J-10B/C

    3) WS-19 engine prototype assembled *

    4) WS-20 engine nearing testing on Y-20

    5) CJ-1000A prototype assembled **

    6) WS-15 reported in March to be “ready soon” ***

    7) WZ-10 turboshaft reported to be ready and powering Z-20 prototypes

    8) 2nd FC-31 prototype reportedly flew with WS-13

    * The WS-19 is to be the uprated engine to be paired with the FC-31 which is increasingly cited as the next Chinese carrier fighter.

    ** The CJ-1000A is a LEAP-level domestic engine from ACAE, a commercial engine builder, for the C-919

    *** http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/...nt_7524017.htm

  4. #994
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    I think China is finally breaking free of engine bottleneck.

  5. #995
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    It will be an interesting 2018 looking for new test vehicles or variants of the J-10, J-20, FC-31, Y-20 and J-15 with domestic engines.

  6. #996
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    could've used some Chinese engines to power this


  7. #997
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    That's a beautiful plane Y-20.

  8. #998
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    thank you my tasty Bengali fries.

    doesn't it look a lot like the Tejas?

  9. #999
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    It does look a bit like the Tejas because of the delta but it most reminds me of a cross between the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale. A 5th generation version is what I envision the next Pak-China joint venture should roughly look like -

    A delta design keeps costs down and simplifies an optimal high-high flight profile.
    A LERX or even better LEVCONS like the PAKFA
    No internal weapons bay but stores would be carried on the fuselage caved in a way as to avoid radar reflection from most frontal angles.

  10. #1000
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    So what's that South African plane doing here ?

  11. #1001
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    why would Pakistan and China build another new type. There is already the jf-17 and j-10 for the last gen, and j-31 and j-20 for the next.
    Pakistan and Bangladesh has plenty of existing options. and your Bangladesh is also open to Russia so you have some nice options there too.

  12. #1002
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    Z-18A - or better to say officially Z-8G - finally entered service.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  13. #1003
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    can China export the J-16, seeing as how most if it is now built in China?

  14. #1004
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    ^The J-16 probably costs China more to build than its worth. In other words, it would be cheaper to buy from Russia. But they don't for political reasons.

  15. #1005
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    you seem to know well about Chinese aviation

    which Russian Flanker do you think the J-16 best corresponds to?
    The Su-35? the 30MKI?

    supposedly the J-16 has AESA and is intended for both A2A and A2G

  16. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    can China export the J-16, seeing as how most if it is now built in China?
    Personally I don't think so. IMHO China and Russia may have some agreement that says they are prohibited to sell locally built Flankers even if every nut and bolt is produced in China. The Su-27 'design' still belongs to Russia and Russia alone. Maybe one day when patents expire things might change. For example selling old designs like J-7 variants is not an issue plus selling producs based on patents they have outright bought after the collapse of the SU as well as licensing deals that allow export would be fine.

  17. #1007
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    You do realize patent rights are largely meaningless and null when it comes to national security grounds. China may lose some imports from Russia, but they're moving towards their creations being independent and no longer representative of the original Russian products. I give China five years to equal Russia is every modern aspect of fighter design.
    Go Huskers!

  18. #1008
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    5 years?

    do you honestly think the j-16 can rival the Su-35, or the j-20 with the su-57 in terms of technology?

    also the exports could be a good thing, at least for Pakistan. they could really use a Flanker derivative

  19. #1009
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    ...and in other news....

    http://defence-blog.com/aviation/chi...-training.html

    Chinese Naval training regiment with JL-9 fighter trainers attached to a training regiment with the PLA Naval Aviation University started flight training.

    The Ministry of National Defense of the People’s Republic of China has released photographs of a JL-9 fighter trainers attached to a training regiment with the PLA Naval Aviation University during flight training near the Bohai Bay on January 5, 2018.
    Photos at
    http://defence-blog.com/aviation/chi...-training.html
    and
    http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018..._7899407_9.htm
    Per Tuesday 08 May 2018: FOKKER (photo)updates at http://www.airnieuws.nl

  20. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    5 years?

    do you honestly think the j-16 can rival the Su-35, or the j-20 with the su-57 in terms of technology?

    also the exports could be a good thing, at least for Pakistan. they could really use a Flanker derivative
    J-20 and Su-57 are unknowns, though for the moment it is safe to say the Su-57 has better engines and integrated TVC.

    J-16 and Su-35...... well at least in a dogfight the Su-35 would probably run circles around the J-16. BVR is another story.

  21. #1011
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    I would say J-16 and Su-35 have basically equal chance in BVR. Both are slinging their weapons outside so they would see each other practically at their maximum instrumented radar range. Missile range would likely be the same for RVV-SD/R-77-1 and the Chinese PL series.

  22. #1012
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    for those of you interested in the SA fighter:

    https://forum.keypublishing.com/show...The-Atlas-Cava

  23. #1013
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    J-16 and Su-35...... well at least in a dogfight the Su-35 would probably run circles around the J-16. BVR is another story
    I think some are again playing Quartett instead of making a reasonable comparison: the Su-35 is most of all a heavily revised fighter variant of the Flanker family whereas the J-16 - since based on the Su-30MKK - was developed in order to field an indigenously manufactured striker variant.

    IMO one should compare the J-16 with the Su-30SM or MKI and the Su-35 with the J-11D ... and for both Russia might still have an edge..... but that gap is getting narrower.

    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  24. #1014
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    You do realize patent rights are largely meaningless and null when it comes to national security grounds. China may lose some imports from Russia, but they're moving towards their creations being independent and no longer representative of the original Russian products. I give China five years to equal Russia is every modern aspect of fighter design.
    You do realize that China hasn't created Su-34/Su-35 with enhanced internal fuel tanks and they can lift quite stuff heavy like 3000L fuel tanks and bigger pods with even bigger tail. the tail of Su-34 is bigger than nose of Chinese flanker.
    than there is MIG-31BM2 with ultra long range BVR shot and its follow on is 6G fighter with sustainable near space capability.
    but Russian priorities seem Tu-160M2/PAKDA/IL478/A-100/Tu-214SR/heavy strike drone all these contribute to non-contact warfare.

    There is no place of small tactical fighters in futuristic non contact warfare.
    https://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussi...eputy-PM-0848/
    Old-fashioned army and fleet, organized in accordance with 20th century examples, will lose a war before they are face to face with the enemy. The era of high-precision long-range weapons has arrived. The future lies in smart weapons," Dmitry Rogozin told students in the Urals city of Chelyabinsk

  25. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    I think some are again playing Quartett instead of making a reasonable comparison: the Su-35 is most of all a heavily revised fighter variant of the Flanker family whereas the J-16 - since based on the Su-30MKK - was developed in order to field an indigenously manufactured striker variant.

    IMO one should compare the J-16 with the Su-30SM or MKI and the Su-35 with the J-11D
    ... and for both Russia might still have an edge..... but that gap is getting narrower.

    Deino
    Even against the Su-30MKI and Su-30SM the J-16 is going to be at disadvantage in WVR without TVC. TVC is not just for airshow stunts. The only edge the J-16 might have is the brand new PL-10 ASR missile but we haven't seen J-16 pilots use a new HMD with the PL-10. PLAAF uses HMS with R-73 but we don't know whether the PL-10 has a compatible HMD ready for the J-16. So Su-30MKI and Su-30SM pilots have TVC and the R-73 + HMS combo while the J-16 pilots will have rely of the PL-10 alone assuming pilot skills are the same.

    BVR is a completely different story. Weapons alone the J-16 pilots have PL-12, PL-15 and new the VLRAAM to knockout any support aircraft AWACS and tankers, etc and if the EW systems on the J-16 is as good as the rumored J-10C systems then in BVR the J-16 would only be 2nd to the J-20 in the PLAAF. J-16 and J-16D would be a deadly combo.

    Su-35 vs J-11D is a non-starter. Su-35 takes the cake by default. There are just a handfull of J-11D prototypes and its status is unclear. I mean does anyone know the current status of this program?

  26. #1016
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    Any news on the Diamond DART as the new chinese basic trainer? Also there are some saying that the CJ-6 is still in production, bangladesh and sri lanka are getting new build examples? Any pictures of new build CJ-6s?
    Last edited by alexz; 12th January 2018 at 05:02.

  27. #1017
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    is the J-16 really comparable to the su-30? supposedly it has a thoroughly different airframe composition, despite being similar shaped to the older flanker

    j-11D.. this site seems to think its no su-35

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201...craft-engines/

    Accept No Substitute: Chinese J-11D Fighter No Match for Russian Su-35

  28. #1018
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    ...this site seems to think its no su-35
    Like I said IMO both the Su-30SM and Su-35 still have an edge over the J-16 & J-11D, but believing anything related to China from this site is as stupid as believing the German "Bild" on international politics & economics.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  29. #1019
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    Well, in BVR, the latest Chinese Flanker-derivatives are superior. Both the J-16 and J-11D run AESA, good enough for around 450 km detection vs 0 dBsm, although it might be lower in the former case as the figures are for the J-11D's AESA. Irbis-E, by comparison, boasts 400 km range vs 4.8 dBsm, or the equivalent of 300 km range vs 0 dBsm. The Chinese also have their new PL-15 missiles (the PL-12 derivative, not the interceptor missiles) which should be able to outrange R-77 by 40-90 km.

    As to WVR, the Russians are clearly ahead; your point about lack of PL-10 ASR integration with HUDs is correct, and no Chinese Flanker sports TVC.

    Funny thing is, if you bin together all Chinese 4th gen designs and all Russian 4th gen designs, the Chinese (793) actually have more 4th gen fighters than the Russians (589, 670 with naval aviation), albeit the Chinese are a bit too heavy on the J-10s (323) compared to MiG-29 inventories (120), and if you include the MiG-31s (135), the Russians come out slightly ahead (805).

  30. #1020
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    Can you guys help out here? I need a turn radius and a bank angle for this shot. My rough calcs say between 200 and 274 meters, bank angle is around 80 degrees. This implies a turn rate of 40+ degrees at mach .25.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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