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Thread: The US killer guns, death and destruction thread

  1. #1
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    The US killer guns, death and destruction thread

    The title is ironic, but the sentiment isn't.

    Victim shot by police in Indianapolis after robbery.

    Carl Williams, 48, dialed 911 around 4:30 a.m. Tuesday to alert cops a man with a rifle forced his wife to give him her car keys then drove off with her car, according to Indianapolis police. Yet Officer Christopher Mills wound up shooting Williams in the stomach, investigators said.

    Williams, a black Air Force veteran who has worked as a postal employee for the past 16 years, was recuperating Thursday at his family’s eastern Indianapolis home, his lawyer Richard Hailey said in a statement.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2766242
    A few things to defend the police here - they were told a car was stolen but it was parked outside the house when they arrived, the man came out of the houses garage with his gun visible, he was black...

    The police shooting of a Brooklyn teen nearly three years ago is now being compared with that of Tamir Rice — after surveillance video reveals the 15-year-old posed no threat at the time.

    Keston Charles, who had been wielding a BB gun, was shot three times by Officer Jonathan Rivera — who fired 16 times at the teen — during a foot chase.

    Unlike Rice, the 12-year-old boy who was shot to death by Cleveland police while holding a pellet gun in November 2014, Charles was lucky to survive.

    https://news.google.com/news/story?n...dGCHcQqgIIKDAA
    The video - on the site above - shows the boy running, looking over his shoulder but never aiming his 'gun' as the police insisted he did (and thereby justifying their use of deadly force) to defend their case. 16 shots, from just one officer, the boy was hit once in a buttock and twice in the chest - the last two when he was standing with his hands up surrendering, verified by a former New York City chief medical examiner.
    He was black, like the boy from Cleveland, but at least he survived.



    Ok, let the nutters reply...;o)

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    Oh dear.

    A US National Football League (NFL) quarterback has refused to stand for the national anthem in protest at what he sees as racial injustice.
    Colin Kaepernick, who plays with the San Francisco 49ers, remained seated as the anthem was played.
    "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour," he explained.
    Some fans booed the player when he took to the pitch...

    ...Kaepernick has been outspoken on social media about race relations and a supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement.
    "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way," Kaepernick told NFL Media.
    "There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.''
    He appeared to be referring to police use of deadly force which sparked the Black Lives Matter protests.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37205032
    Of course the majority will, metaphorically, shoot the messenger and ignore the message.

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    Killer GUNS

    Oh me, oh my, they will hunt you down force you to load them and make you use them kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, blah, blah, blah....

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    No Yank dickheads with killer guns. One point to add in a civilised society we do not need privately owned guns to protect us. Welcome back RpR I have missed you like a bad case of piles!
    I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
    I take something for it.

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    Ah ha, I called for nutters; more fool me.

    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    Killer GUNS
    Hi, long time no appearance.

    Yes, I am well aware that you believe them to be tools, like a screwdriver or a spanner. But if I don't have a spanner I cannot get the wheel off my bike: true?

    Guns don't kill people rappers do / So do the police / Woo woo woo… - Goldie Lookin Chain

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul178 View Post
    No Yank dickheads with killer guns. One point to add in a civilised society we do not need privately owned guns to protect us. Welcome back RpR I have missed you like a bad case of piles!
    I just said those guns they track you down hynotize you i.nto loading them and then they control you as they take you out to kill people, we are helpless.
    By his thread title snafu realizes this.
    Do you have a reading problem?

    You should really treat those piles.

    Snafu:

    That football player babbles about oppression while black on black crime in Chicago leaves hundreds dead.
    Liberals and the black " public leaders" ignore this fact while speaking moronical bits about why BLM exists.
    If they cared one slight bit about black lives they would have a campaign to do something about Chicago crime.
    Last edited by RpR; 28th August 2016 at 23:53.

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    Maybe the problem as they see it isn't so much that there is a black on black crime problem (if they didn't have access to guns...;o)) but that the US police appear to withdraw their guns and fire them for the simplest of reasons. They are almost like a toddlers security blanket - something to grip on to when there is a scarey problem. Worldwide there will always be a lot more interest in a story with a video of a cop shooting a man in the back for running away from a traffic stop, complete with the false claim that he had made a grab for the officer's weapon, which makes police all over the world look like they were in on the lie. Man shoots other man outside a bar happens all the time, but the cops being caught out and seen to be caught out is newsworthy.

    In Britain armed police are supposed to yell 'ARMED POLICE' before using their weapons; obviously there will be occasions when the situation makes that impossible, and there have been times when no witnesses heard those words being called although all the police insist they heard it despite the fact that the requisite video either never caught the warning or was mysteriously either not working or the video itself 'disappeared'. The man in Indianapolis coming out of his garage wouldn't have seen the police and they were apparently behind cover anyway so there seems to be no reason not to shout a warning that the suspect was covered, any problem after the warning could allow the shooting to have happened without the bad PR for the cops. Under these circumstances the man would - hopefully - have heard the warning, lowered his gun to the ground and all would have been sorted out. Had he been a bad guy and levelled his weapon they could have shot him, or if he had lowered it in surrender they could have arrested him, but to just fire at someone because he had a gun and without verifying his intentions is, essentially, stupid and always going to lead to bad publicity for the police one way or another.

    The boy ran; he believed himself to be in trouble and like all kids would do his best to get away. The cops hit him once and he surrendered - so what the hell was the point in firing at him after his hands were up? The door was locked, the boy was wounded, there were three officers and the only reason that makes any sense is that they were upset that he had made them run and one of them wanted revenge. Shooting whilst running might keep the boy from slowing down, for fear of being shot, but - in the eyes of the officers - also stop him from trying to fire back, yet not only was the boy given incentive not to stop but others who see this video and hear about the story will have second thoughts for fear that if they do stop they will still be gunned down: it could be said to be the same option as surrendering to Isis and getting shot (beheaded, burned alive, gunned down by kids, etc) or keep on running and maybe getting away.

    Wasting my time telling you this, but the others who read it can make their own minds up so don't forget that when slinging racial stereotypes around...

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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    Maybe the problem as they see it isn't so much that there is a black on black crime problem (if they didn't have access to guns...;o)) but that the US police appear to withdraw their guns and fire them for the simplest of reasons. They are almost like a toddlers security blanket - something to grip on to when there is a scarey problem. Worldwide there will always be a lot more interest in a story with a video of a cop shooting a man in the back for running away from a traffic stop, complete with the false claim that he had made a grab for the officer's weapon, which makes police all over the world look like they were in on the lie. Man shoots other man outside a bar happens all the time, but the cops being caught out and seen to be caught out is newsworthy.


    Wasting my time telling you this, but the others who read it can make their own minds up so don't forget that when slinging racial stereotypes around...
    There has been a problem with the way law officers are trained for long, long, long time. The first people to tell me this were former policemen and sheriffs.

    One said they have to deprogram them when they come out of the academy but at the same time the politicians who control the police force have taken away the discretion officers used to have in enforcing the law. They are told my way or the highway.
    If two gents had a scuffle, it used to be the law would tell them unless they want to be arrested to go home and cool off; now, even when the fact is obvious and witnesses loudly cry so, BOTH are handcuffed and arrested and taken to jail.
    I am not saying that law enforcement in the country is not becoming the very thing some movies show from utopian societies where every thing is illegal but guns are not the heart of the problem nor a major factor in changing how police work is done.

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    Let's play nicely please. One thread was closed, and this will go the same way if it descends into ranting and abuse like the last one.

    Personally, I disagree with Rpr's stance, but I live in a different world to him. I can't rationalise my beliefs in his world, and have long since given up trying.

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    Claiming that guns are just "tools" is merely playing with words; a bit like saying "Lawnmowers don't cut grass, people do" By the same logic, I guess people would have no problem letting small kids have knives, or the mentally ill have poison, because those things are just "tools" too, and you shouldn't restrict them just because they might be misused.
    Terms & Conditions Apply.

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    Mayor Andrew Ginther appeared to choke up as he called for the community to come together to help ensure children remain safe. He questioned why an eighth-grader would have a replica of a police firearm.

    “There is something wrong in this country, and it is bringing its epidemic to our city streets,” Ginther said. “And a 13-year-old is dead in the city of Columbus because of our obsession with guns and violence.”...

    ...An officer responding to a reported armed robbery shot and killed a 13-year-old boy during a chase when the teen pulled from his waistband a BB gun that looked “practically identical” to a police weapon, authorities said Thursday.

    Because the officer was white and the boy black, the case has brought inevitable comparisons with the 2014 fatal shooting in Cleveland of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. Columbus police are early in their investigation but say the differences in the Wednesday night shooting of Tyree King and the Cleveland case are stark.

    “The only thing similar in nature is the age, race and outcome,” said Columbus police spokesman Sgt. Rich Weiner. “The facts are not similar, and that must be reiterated.”

    Officers investigating the armed robbery report on Wednesday spotted three males east of downtown Columbus who matched the description of the suspects, authorities said. Two of them ran away when officers tried to speak with them.

    The police chased the pair into a nearby alley and tried to take them into custody. That’s when Tyree pulled out a gun, and one officer fired his weapon, hitting the boy repeatedly, police said.

    Tyree died at a children’s hospital. Authorities identified the officer who fired as a nine-year veteran of the force named Bryan Mason.

    At a news conference Thursday, Police Chief Kim Jacobs displayed a photo of what she called a “replica” of the BB gun that Tyree had.

    “Our officers carry a gun that looks practically identical to this weapon,” she said. “As you can see, it looks like a firearm that could kill you.”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle31894549/
    Cannot fault the police officer - if the guns were practically identical what else could he do?
    But why are 'BB' guns made to look that realistic?
    My eldest son - against my wishes and best judgement - bought himself one which looked like some sort of pistol, but the upper bodywork and gun barrel was painted bright orange. He wanted to over paint the weapon because that is what his mates have done; apparently one of them has an M16 replica which originally had large areas of orange has been resprayed with disruptive camouflage over the orange, with orange bits that weren't over painted being toned down - sheer stupidity. But you can't forbid a 19 year old from anything easily; luckily he ran out of BBs and soon swapped his gun for a '£150(!) top of the range skateboard', which he managed to snap about a month later...
    But the fact is that the police would have difficulty deciding whether it was a real weapon or a fake, and any movement seen as threatening would result in death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    But why are 'BB' guns made to look that realistic?
    Because the more realistic a replica looks and feels the more it enhances the experience the purchaser is looking to achieve by owning it; even to the extent of getting oneself shot-at, and killed, apparently.
    WA$.

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    It was essentially a rhetorical question - they are made to look realistic so that they give their owner/handler the sort of sensation they'd hope to get from having a real weapon in their hand but without the opportunity for death when they pull the trigger. And they do, all the bloody time. 'Pick your pellets up,' I'd say, only to the response 'there's too many of them...'

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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    But why are 'BB' guns made to look that realistic?
    .
    Increased sales.
    Some BB guns that could actually be called lethal, do not resemble any other gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    There has been a problem with the way law officers are trained for long, long, long time.
    In an earlier part of my life I was involved with the training of UK Police armed response personnel.

    About 5-10% of the training involved accuracy. It's not a great prerequisite when the average engagement distance is 25m or less (I forget the actual figure so apologies for putting in a spurious number just to emphasise that we aren't talking about 'marksmen' here)

    The remainder of the training is all about the shoot/no shoot decision. Re-qualification is a regular requirement. It was every 21 days for the RUC, one of Britain's only two, 100%-armed police forces.

    And still they make mistakes on a regular basis.

    Moggy
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    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    There has been a problem with the way law officers are trained for long, long, long time. The first people to tell me this were former policemen and sheriffs.
    I'm with Ta-Nehisi Coates on this one. The police are but a symptom of a rot that runs right to the core.

    “The truth is that the police reflect America in all of its will and fear, and whatever we might make of the country’s criminal justice policy, it cannot be said that it was imposed by a repressive minority. The abuses that have followed from these policies—the sprawling carceral state, the random detention of black people, the torture of suspects—are the product of democratic will. And so to challenge the police is to challenge the American people who send them into the ghettos armed with the same self-generated fears that compelled the people who think they are white to flee the cities and into the Dream. The problem with the police is not that they are fascist pigs but that our country is ruled by majoritarian pigs
    Which also means that I agree with your assertion that guns are not the root of the problem, although I do think that American gun culture is more than tangentially related to the problem. At this point I'm not sure how productive "common sense" gun control measures would be. Nor am I sure that I wouldn't want to arm myself in such a situation. And frankly I'm relieved I have the leisure of not thinking about it too much. It's one hell of a mess you've got yourself into over there, that's all I can say.
    Last edited by Rii; 22nd September 2016 at 07:40.

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    I was talking with eldest daughter about the protests in Charlotte, North Carolina, this afternoon and whilst investigating some questions she asked I came across this incident.

    West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun
    By Radley Balko September 12

    We’ve tracked countless cases here where cops were able to keep their jobs after killing unarmed people, killing people after responding to the wrong house, killing people and then lying about it . . . the list goes on.

    Give the Weirton, W.Va., police chief some credit. He’s come up with a new spin on the the same problem. He just fired a cop for not killing someone.

    From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

    After responding to a report of a domestic incident on May 6 in Weirton, W.Va., then-Weirton police officer Stephen Mader found himself confronting an armed man.

    Immediately, the training he had undergone as a Marine to look at “the whole person” in deciding if someone was a terrorist, as well as his situational police academy training, kicked in and he did not shoot.

    “I saw then he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me,” Mr. Mader recalled, noting the silver handgun was in the man’s right hand, hanging at his side and pointed at the ground.

    Mr. Mader, who was standing behind Mr. Williams’ car parked on the street, said he then “began to use my calm voice.”

    “I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’ And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother.’ Then he starts flicking his wrist to get me to react to it.

    “I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and deescalate it. I knew it was a suicide-by-cop” situation.

    Mader was responding to a 911 call from Williams’s girlfriend. In that call, she told police that Williams was threatening to kill himself, not anyone else.

    What Mader did upon arriving at the scene is a hell of a lot braver course of action than simply opening fire when the suspect doesn’t immediately disarm. What Mader did is in fact exactly what we want cops to do when someone is in crisis. It’s also precisely what law enforcement officers say they do on a daily basis — put themselves at risk in order to save lives. Mader should have been given a medal. Unfortunately, two more cops then showed up, and quickly shot Williams dead.

    As it turns out, Williams’s gun wasn’t loaded. There’s no way any of the police officers could have known that. But it does show that Mader had read Williams correctly — he wasn’t actually a threat to anyone but himself. His life could have been saved.

    The Weirton police department then refused to name Williams for three days and assigned an investigator to look into the shooting . . . who then promptly left for a weeklong vacation. Then came the punchline.

    Mr. Mader — speaking publicly about this case for the first time — said that when he tried to return to work on May 17, following normal protocol for taking time off after an officer-involved shooting, he was told to go see Weirton Police Chief Rob Alexander.

    In a meeting with the chief and City Manager Travis Blosser, Mr. Mader said Chief Alexander told him: “We’re putting you on administrative leave and we’re going to do an investigation to see if you are going to be an officer here. You put two other officers in danger.”

    Mr. Mader said that “right then I said to him: ‘Look, I didn’t shoot him because he said, ‘Just shoot me.’ ”

    On June 7, a Weirton officer delivered him a notice of termination letter dated June 6, which said by not shooting Mr. Williams he “failed to eliminate a threat.”

    http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...s/201609090080
    The city mentioned two other incidents in firing Mader, but it seems clear that his failure to kill Williams was the motivation for his termination. Even the rare cop who gets fired often gets to keep his pension. Mader won’t be getting one.

    After he received his termination notice, Mr. Mader sought attorneys to help him fight the city. He was told because he was still a probationary employee in an “at-will” state, he could be fired for any reason and there was no point in fighting the city.

    One attorney told him the best he could hope for was to ask to resign instead of being terminated.

    “But I told [the attorney] ‘Look, I don’t want to admit guilt. I’ll take the termination instead of the resignation because I didn’t do anything wrong,’ ” Mr. Mader said. “To resign and admit I did something wrong here would have ate at me. I think I’m right in what I did. I’ll take it to the grave.”

    Over the weekend, the New York Times ran an article about the longstanding problem in which even the rare bad cops who do get fired are often able to quickly find work at another policy agency. Mader, who served a tour in Afghanistan and has two sons under five-years-old, told the Post-Gazette that he’s now studying for a commercial truck driving license, but he’d consider another job in law enforcement if he were offered one. I hope that happens. I hope he’s given the same second chance that corrupt, trigger-happy cops are given. My hunch is that he’ll be driving trucks.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-unloaded-gun/
    Suffice to say the man was black.

    The two other incidents mentioned when the officer was fired are mentioned in the original story:

    The notice of termination included two other incidents in which the city believed Mr. Mader acted improperly: An incident in April where neither he nor two other more experienced officers - the same two who were involved in the Williams’ case - reported as suspicious the death of an elderly woman who appeared to have had a stroke and fallen in her home, though no one has been charged in her death; and an incident in March when a woman complained that Mr. Mader was rude and swore at her when she asked why her husband was being arrested for disorderly conduct over receiving a parking ticket.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/local/re...s/201609090080
    Mader claims he was not questioned about either event or given an opportunity to clarify his position, believing that these incidents were used to cover for the other two officers who were involved in the shooting, so as to not need to admit that their actions were wrong and the almost certain lawsuits that would follow. Mader was a probationer and therefore easier to drop.

    Additionally, Mader was fired 6 June, received notice of the termination 7 June when it was delivered to his home by another officer, yet his chief told a press conference on 8 June that all three officers involved in the shooting were 'back at work and doing fine'!

    Further, the deceased man's family are not happy. Various reports gave the number of shots fired as as few as one and as many as four; the killing shot was found by the independent pathologist they hired to have been fired downwards, behind his right ear, yet the police reports did not indicate how this could be. A full week after the press conference that lied about all three officers working and doing fine, the deceased's family were given the same information - eight days after Mader was fired.




    But the prospect is, the real danger is, that this will inform other police officers that if you see a gun, you shoot, or you are out of a job.
    Rather than sizing up the situation, as Mader with his marine training did, the police chief wants unthinking drones to resolve - monkey see, monkey do.
    And they are protected since they are rarely subject to investigation, let alone prosecution.

    Does this worry you, America? It will worry the rest of the world.

  18. #18
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    Black it looks like Trump was right in keeping the *removed by moderator* out.
    Nice big wall all around the USA?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37460461
    Last edited by frankvw; 24th September 2016 at 20:46. Reason: No racial slurs!
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    Yes, that's the solution; build a big wall around the USA and throw out any racial group that has shot anybody...

    ...so, out go the African-Americans, the Hispanics, the Arabs and the Native-Americans (Custer's Last Stand)...

    ...only white people would be left.....because they've never shot anybody!
    WA$.

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    Well they could have a battle between each other. Now where is that Mason Dixie line again?
    I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
    I take something for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    Yes, that's the solution; build a big wall around the USA and throw out any racial group that has shot anybody...

    ...so, out go the African-Americans, the Hispanics, the Arabs and the Native-Americans (Custer's Last Stand)...

    ...only white people would be left.....because they've never shot anybody!
    And your defining line of white is what?

    You cannot say Caucasian, so where do YOU draw the geographical or political lines.
    A Latino is not white only to bigoted persons OR Latinos who deny their physical appearence.

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    Another great piece from Coates on the relationship between police and black America:

    Last month, the Obama administration accused Donald Trump of undercutting American legitimacy in the eyes of the world. Trump’s call to ban Muslims wasn’t just morally wrong, according to Vice President Joe Biden, it called “into question America’s status as the greatest democracy in the history of the world.” President Obama followed Biden by asserting that Trump’s rhetoric “doesn’t reflect our democratic ideals,” saying “it will make us less safe, fueling ISIL’s notion that the West hates Muslims.” His point was simple—wanton discrimination in policy and rhetoric undercuts American legitimacy and fuels political extremism. This lesson is not limited to Donald Trump, and it applies as well abroad as it does at home.

    Last week, 25-year-old Micah Xavier Johnson murdered five police officers in Dallas. This abhorrent act of political extremism cannot be divorced from American history—recent or old. In black communities, the police departments have only enjoyed a kind of quasi-legitimacy. That is because wanton discrimination is definitional to the black experience, and very often it is law enforcement which implements that discrimination with violence. A community consistently subjected to violent discrimination under the law will lose respect for it, and act beyond it. When such actions stretch to mass murder it is horrific. But it is also predictable.

    To understand the lack of police legitimacy in black communities, consider the contempt in which most white Americans hold O.J. Simpson. Consider their feelings toward the judge and jury in the case. And then consider that this is approximately how black people have felt every few months for generations. It’s not just that the belief that Officer Timothy Loehmann got away with murdering a 12-year-old Tamir Rice, it is the reality that police officers have been getting away with murdering black people since the advent of American policing. The injustice compounds, congeals until there is an almost tangible sense of dread and grievance that compels a community to understand the police as objects of fear, not respect.

    What does it mean, for instance, that black children are ritually told that any stray movement in the face of the police might result in their own legal killing? When Eric Holder spoke about getting “The Talk” from his father, and then giving it to his own son, many of us nodded our heads. But many more of us were terrified. When the nation’s top cop must warn his children to be skeptical of his own troops, how legitimate can the police actually be?

    [....]

    In the black community, it’s the force they deploy, and not any higher American ideal, that gives police their power. This is obviously dangerous for those who are policed. Less appreciated is the danger illegitimacy ultimately poses to those who must do the policing. For if the law represents nothing but the greatest force, then it really is indistinguishable from any other street gang. And if the law is nothing but a gang, then it is certain that someone will resort to the kind of justice typically meted out to all other powers in the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    And your defining line of white is what?

    You cannot say Caucasian, so where do YOU draw the geographical or political lines.
    A Latino is not white only to bigoted persons OR Latinos who deny their physical appearence.
    Racism isn't about skin colour, never has been. Look at the Irish, who used to be discriminated against in the United States as well as here (Australia) and in England. Same with southern Europeans. In all cases racism is about creating hierarchies amongst peoples. To be "white" in the Anglo-American context doesn't mean to have white skin (not least of all because nobody has white skin) but rather it means to be part of a group of people that considers itself superior to all others. The definition of who is and isn't allowed to be white changes over time -- again, see the Irish and southern Europeans -- and other societies have their own forms of racism: their own hierarchies in which the politically dominant group places itself, inevitably, at the top. Skin colour is often a convenient marker by which the inferior other is identified and discriminated against, but is not essential to racism.
    Last edited by Rii; 25th September 2016 at 08:53.

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    It's very much related to skin colour in India !

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    These ****heads got more then they bargained for.

    http://americanmilitarynews.com/2016...tesniperrifles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Racism isn't about skin colour, never has been. Look at the Irish, who used to be discriminated against in the United States as well as here (Australia) and in England. Same with southern Europeans. In all cases racism is about creating hierarchies amongst peoples. To be "white" in the Anglo-American context doesn't mean to have white skin (not least of all because nobody has white skin) but rather it means to be part of a group of people that considers itself superior to all others. The definition of who is and isn't allowed to be white changes over time -- again, see the Irish and southern Europeans -- and other societies have their own forms of racism: their own hierarchies in which the politically dominant group places itself, inevitably, at the top. Skin colour is often a convenient marker by which the inferior other is identified and discriminated against, but is not essential to racism.
    Racism
    noun
    noun: racism

    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.


    You and a probably the whole political pile of humam debris in Washington should really read your dictionaries.
    Thre are only three races, period.

    The incoherent babbling of the word racism has pretty much made the word meaningless and pointless.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    Racism
    noun
    noun: racism

    the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.


    You and a probably the whole political pile of humam debris in Washington should really read your dictionaries.
    Thre are only three races, period.

    The incoherent babbling of the word racism has pretty much made the word meaningless and pointless.
    I'm sorry that the world doesn't conform to your simplistic 19th century view of things (tell me, are you into phrenology too?)

    The strange thing is that, as 'conservatives' are forever, and inexplicably, reminding us in the manner of a child stumbling upon an unexpected object, racism exists in other cultures as well. Yet your simplistic claim that there are only three races would erase the great majority of this racism and would indeed leave Caucasians as the undisputed masters of that ignoble realm, when the reality is altogether more complicated.

    Conservatives are a funny lot. Their worldview is (supposedly) all about tradition and preserving what is worthy about the past, yet most conservatism relies upon a studied ignorance, distortion or denial of that very history.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    I'm sorry that the world doesn't conform to your simplistic 19th century view of things (tell me, are you into phrenology too?)

    The strange thing is that, as 'conservatives' are forever, and inexplicably, reminding us in the manner of a child stumbling upon an unexpected object, racism exists in other cultures as well. Yet your simplistic claim that there are only three races would erase the great majority of this racism and would indeed leave Caucasians as the undisputed masters of that ignoble realm, when the reality is altogether more complicated.

    Conservatives are a funny lot. Their worldview is (supposedly) all about tradition and preserving what is worthy about the past, yet most conservatism relies upon a studied ignorance, distortion or denial of that very history.
    Ignorance is bliss and your ignorance of the English language makes you a very happy person with a poor command of words.

    Now go find a dictionary look up the word bigotry and try to make your rhetoric at least resemble something that is intelligent.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RpR View Post
    And your defining line of white is what?

    You cannot say Caucasian, so where do YOU draw the geographical or political lines.
    A Latino is not white only to bigoted persons OR Latinos who deny their physical appearence.
    You may have misunderstood the point of my post; what I was trying to say was that you cannot judge (or pre-judge) any particular race, nation, religion or ethnic group on the actions of a single individual or small group of individuals.

    I don't have a 'defining line' of what white is, or Caucasian, or Latino, for that matter; I've never found myself in any situation that remotely required me to be able differentiate between people based on racial grounds (and in the United Kingdom such differentiation is, except on strictly medical grounds, probably illegal).

    Geographical lines are much easier to follow, but again, aren't really suitable for discrimination; except legal discrimination.

    Political lines? Take your pick, but keep it simple, people don't like to think too much. Like religion.
    WA$.

  29. #29
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    Guns, Cops, and Race: RPR's three psychological pressure points -- the great American triumvirate.

    (Where "Cops" can also be read as "Soldiers" and whilst acknowledging the presence of that fourth crucial element making up the American psyche: God)

    And of course, each is related to the other. Where as a general rule police serve the interests of the powerful against the powerless, one only has to add the specific functions of the police in the context of American history:

    (1) To aid in the displacement and murder of native Americans.
    (2) To aid in the recapture and punishment of slaves.
    (3) To protect (white) property owners against recriminations from the aggrieved other.

    This is how one explains the otherwise inexplicable: that the crowd most devoted, in theory, to "freedom", "liberty", n' all those other high 'flown words, the crowd most vocally suspicious of the power of government, is the same crowd that, in practice, lines up again and again behind the authoritarian use of government force. The key question being: freedom for whom, and from what? The answer: freedom for the white man, from those who might hold him accountable for his crimes. These simple truths tell you all you need to know about policing in America today, and the "pro cop", "anti cop" divide.
    Last edited by Rii; 27th September 2016 at 01:50.

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