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Thread: Another Amelia Theory of Disappearance

  1. #121
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    They don't bankroll it: we, the gullible citizens of Internet-land do. Or hopefully, don't.
    I' think Malcolm's got it spot on!

  2. #122
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    Tom Maxwell, I ask again, is the long endurance capability (based mainly on Johnson's 487 report) information available on the web? I would very much like to read it.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell View Post
    Cack? I think you mean "load of crap".
    I know exactly what I meant, and I meant 'cack'; not that it really matters as both cack and crap mean the same thing .

    You are not an imaging expert.
    I don't appear to be the only one

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Mckay
    Now we have the Electra gliding in so that it makes a silent approach......
    I agree with your point - and as I seem to recall reading that the props on Amelia Earharts Electra were of the non feathering type, it would either have had to fly in under power, or (with engines stopped) the stationary props would act as a very efficient air brake probably resulting in a very steep (near vertical) angle of descent - perhaps not beneficial to the long term prospects of the occupants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell
    Meantime some very smart people continue to support trips to Nikumaroro, PNG, Milli Atoll, and Howland deep without having any clues. Speculation and hunches. Not even a blurry photo.
    To be fair, certain other theories have a fair amount of distinct real clues. Clues which add up to a great deal more than the Orona theory, which I think fits rather more into the 'wild and irrational speculation' category.

    Odd that other theories should be dismissed for not having any clues as evidence, when you don't really have anything more solid or convincing than most of them do.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell View Post
    ...... The Orona image is public knowledge. Anyone can use it to create their own theory. ......
    My theory is that it is a typical atoll lagoon, with aircraft remains totally absent
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #125
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    Tom have you researched to see if a Nature type survey been completed by any Governments looking at all aspects of the environment in the Lagoon and island surrounds? A big if, they might have mentioned unknown wreckage in the survey and there might be a record of it published somewhere, if one exists.
    Ian

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by 43-2195 View Post
    Tom Maxwell, I ask again, is the long endurance capability (based mainly on Johnson's 487 report) information available on the web? I would very much like to read it.
    Yes, it is available .pdf document I have it but don't know if I can attach it to a post. If I can't I'll try to find where I got it. No- only images allowed. I found it on the e-net somewhere. Checking

    TIGHAR.org has got it. You can read it there but can't download.
    Last edited by Tom Maxwell; 11th September 2016 at 03:13.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellington285 View Post
    Tom have you researched to see if a Nature type survey been completed by any Governments looking at all aspects of the environment in the Lagoon and island surrounds? A big if, they might have mentioned unknown wreckage in the survey and there might be a record of it published somewhere, if one exists.
    Ian
    The New England Aquarium, a PIPA administrator, makes trips to the Phoenix Islands for SCUBA dive surveys. Here is a dive location they did at Orona. Only about a 1000 feet from the wreck's location. The NEA and Kiribati PIPA administrator were informed about the wreck in 2009. As a educational 501 (3c) they have absolutely no interest. I keep up with the Phoenix Island blog that the NEA survey teams produce.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	248083 I suppose if they were directly on it they would report it.
    Last edited by Tom Maxwell; 12th September 2016 at 01:17.

  8. #128
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    The 2015 image, the default image that appears first for the GE user, does not show the airframe. It is a very dark image taken with a choppy surface. Note that the surface chop glint ( the very bright speckles along the top in your screen capture) disappear in the area of interest. The extreme pixel color (bright white and deep black) are clipped. The glint is eliminated. I'm not sure why Digital Globe/ GE chose to use a collage of different photos for the 2015 image. The glint from the gun barrel is seen only very rarely. A pocket mirror can be seen for miles when properly directed to the viewer. This is the case of the 2006 image; calm surface conditions, bright sunshine, and the satellite in just the right position to capture the sun reflection.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell View Post
    The 2015 image does not show the airframe.
    That, plus the numerous distortions of physics invoked to support your 'identification' of the alleged wreck just about sums up this story for me.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by plough View Post
    I agree with your point - and as I seem to recall reading that the props on Amelia Earharts Electra were of the non feathering type, it would either have had to fly in under power, or (with engines stopped) the stationary props would act as a very efficient air brake probably resulting in a very steep (near vertical) angle of descent - perhaps not beneficial to the long term prospects of the occupants.
    The pedant in me needs to say that stopped propellers create little drag, whereas a wind-milling (turning due to airflow, not engine power) propeller is accepted to create as much drag as a disc the size of the area of the radius of the propeller. And it wouldn't be near vertical, but would be steep.

    Though a well flown approach, even if steep and with 2 wind-milling propellers could be flown to an acceptable touchdown if handled correctly.
    Last edited by scrooge; 11th September 2016 at 10:17.

  11. #131
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    The attached images show the impact of lighting. Octopus in light represents the GE 2006 image of Orona while octopus in dark represents the 2015 image. When abundant sunshine is present, the octopus is clearly visible. The extreme light and shadow make it difficult for the octopus to disguise itself against the background. Without bright sunlight, the octopus can disappear completely against the muted color of the background surroundings.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	248102. The aircraft simply disappears without the extremes of light and shadow.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell View Post
    The aircraft simply disappears without the extremes of light and shadow.
    A strange comparison. An aircraft doesn't change shape or adapt to the background colours.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumper View Post
    A strange comparison. An aircraft doesn't change shape or adapt to the background colours.
    But you see you used logic there, not a good idea

  14. #134
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    So Earhart and Noonan were flying an Octopus ... ?
    Martin

  15. #135
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    Isn't it great we have these forums to talk about this subject. Same critics return repeatedly; gentlemen, no sense wasting your valuable time here. Or perhaps I'm wrong. You return because you really are interested? I love your little yellow cartoons. Just like secret handshakes?

    Here is an example of the angle measurement (22.8º) GE can make. The points are the center of the left vertical stabilizer and both engine propeller hubs. I wonder if one would get the same result when using a compass to measure that angle on a properly scaled drawing or sketch of the aircraft?
    Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #136
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    Philosophically speaking, if a Lockheed Electra lands in a lagoon when no one is around, does it make any sound?

    If I stare long enough and let my eyes go out of focus past it I think I can see unicorns...

  17. #137
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    Once you see unicorns, you're eligible to be (in fact probably overqualified) a TRIGGER photo interpretation expert.
    All you have to do is keep drinking the believers Cool-Aid and send cheques (to support the fearless leader's lifestyle...and not to actually recover anything to do with historic aviation).
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  18. #138
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    This thread is about Orona not Nikumaroro. Your disdain for both makes me think you have a favorite alternate theory. Alien abduction perhaps.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell View Post
    This thread is about Orona not Nikumaroro. Your disdain for both makes me think you have a favorite alternate theory. Alien abduction perhaps.
    Nope. I have no vested interest in it and unlike many, I'm not trying to make a buck off a dead woman. Why the insult?
    I just have an issue with some groups methods/agendas and a strong overall distrust of conspiracies.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  20. #140
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    Well the latest news items have revealed a new twist to the puzzle - Howland Island and the Itasca lost radar contact with Earhart.

  21. #141
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    Here is Huff Post on the subject today:

    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/...cid=spartanntp

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Here is Huff Post on the subject today:

    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/...cid=spartanntp
    Well ,there it is ,all solved

  23. #143
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    So let me get this straight: they crash landed seriously injuring Fred Noonan, her less so. Yet, by some miracle the plane was still capable of running at least one engine in order to power the radio. Makes you wonder why someone from one of those mid ocean radar stations didn't come running to help right away? Incredible that anyone who claims to know about aviation could believe this cr@p.
    A Thousand Shall Fall

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtjagd View Post
    So let me get this straight: they crash landed seriously injuring Fred Noonan, her less so. Yet, by some miracle the plane was still capable of running at least one engine in order to power the radio. Makes you wonder why someone from one of those mid ocean radar stations didn't come running to help right away? Incredible that anyone who claims to know about aviation could believe this cr@p.
    Your on the wrong wavelength. Your thinking about the Nikumaroro theory. Almost everyone knows there were no radar stations in the area- except you- not on area islands and not on the Itaska for sure. The UK newspaper story about falling off the radar is bunk. No radio contact- not radar.

    The forum trolls need to get up to speed on the AE mystery investigation. Nikumaroro was at one time a viable theory. But multiple tests (expeditions) have failed to bring forth any evidence and detectives involved and following the investigation know that Nikumaroro is a dead end.

    The Phoenix Islands (Hull Island included) were considered a place to search by the US Navy and the Putnam/Earhart family. Hull (Orona) is not new in terms of possible answers to the mystery.

  25. #145
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    Gentleman, whatever happened to her, and Noonan, whatever their fate. They are most certainly dead. Is this speculation and theorising going to bring them back? NO!
    Will we ever find the Electra, most likely NO not ever. This is a remarkable mystery of a remarkable women, but perhaps a mystery it should remain.
    Many have the opinion it would be good to find out what happened, find the plane and preserve it. but at this rate and the way many are going about it (mentioning no names at all) it is proving to be little more than speculative and arguably disrespectful.

    Maybe, as Malcom Storry's character in 'The Living And The Dead' said: 'What Lies beneath, should be left beneath' (in a metaphorical, and maybe literal, sense)

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Maxwell View Post
    Your on the wrong wavelength. Your thinking about the Nikumaroro theory. Almost everyone knows there were no radar stations in the area- except you- not on area islands and not on the Itaska for sure. The UK newspaper story about falling off the radar is bunk. No radio contact- not radar.

    The forum trolls need to get up to speed on the AE mystery investigation. Nikumaroro was at one time a viable theory. But multiple tests (expeditions) have failed to bring forth any evidence and detectives involved and following the investigation know that Nikumaroro is a dead end.

    The Phoenix Islands (Hull Island included) were considered a place to search by the US Navy and the Putnam/Earhart family. Hull (Orona) is not new in terms of possible answers to the mystery.
    I'm quite up to speed thank you - we were being a little humorous about the radar; look up the history of radar.

    As for Hull it was not only inhabited at the time of the disappearance but Lieutenant Lambrecht who commanded the aerial search actually landed in the lagoon and spoke with the Burns Philp overseer Jones. Jones was not only unaware of the disappearance (his radio was unserviceable) but neither he nor any of his workers saw any Electra ditch in the lagoon. As for your pic none of us can see any aircraft in it. I'd say that pretty much clinches it.
    Last edited by Malcolm McKay; 14th September 2016 at 01:00. Reason: slight clarification of terminology

  27. #147
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    Yes, for those who can't see an airframe. For visitors who haven't followed the entire thread...what we are talking about.

    Image #1) The Orona image- I am the only one who can see an airframe.

    Image #2) The seven points A-G I identified and used in my analysis.

    Image #3) The possible glide path to splash down that the copra workers never detected.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  28. #148
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    How deep is that lagoon?

    John

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Aeroclub View Post
    How deep is that lagoon?

    John
    About 35'. Most coral towers come within 15' of the surface. I never snorkeled there but work friends who went to Orona on special assignment said it was similar to Canto lagoon except slightly deeper on average. DoD would not allow SCUBA there.

  30. #150
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    Well, as you probably know, the Nikumaroro story is at top of the news once again. The media rehashes this story from time to time- on slow news days. It's as if the theory has the newsmen on a leash; trained to bark on command. The media knows nothing of the Orona theory and related image. But why should Nikumaroro theory experts really try finding the airplane when the journalists bend over to keep the fundraising efforts on a roll? The airplane sits peacefully waiting on the bottom of the lagoon; and it will most likely stay there.

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