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Thread: Pipe with receiving rings, 19 Squadron Spitfire, pre war.

  1. #1
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    Pipe with receiving rings, 19 Squadron Spitfire, pre war.

    G'day Guys,

    Another question if I may. I am at a loss on the device marked with the red arrow.



    Initially I thought it must have had to do with an early control lock, or where it attached but have since seen a photo of the control lock fitted to an early aircraft and it goes nowhere near this equipment.
    It would seem from its attachment to the panel that it was not removable and fits into the panel?

    The whole thing looks to have been gone by very early production, as neither of the newly restored aircraft have one, even though they both have the pump undercarriage (which if memory serves was only on the first 78 EDIT.. NO, first 78 had the Watts prop...my bad! 174 - 197 , depending on who you believe, had the handpump)

    Thanks again to all who helped with the instrument panel colour!

    regards

    Darryl
    Last edited by Tony Hill; 19th August 2016 at 06:45.
    In Memory of:
    Flt Lt Tony Hill who successfully photographed a small "Würzburg radar" at Bruneval. 5th Dec 1941

  2. #2
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    This poses another question: what is the pipe for that snakes under & then over the top. Could that be connected to a missing device that can be quickly detached from the tube assy?
    Keith

  3. #3
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    G'day Keith,

    That is the position of the early oxygen line. At the top there is a triangular mount for the receiver for the bayonet on the mask hose.

    D
    In Memory of:
    Flt Lt Tony Hill who successfully photographed a small "Würzburg radar" at Bruneval. 5th Dec 1941

  4. #4
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    Thanks, just found that out by looking at photos of the aircraft. I presume though that the oxygen QR coupling has been re-located to allow a device to be mounted there. Interesting!
    K

  5. #5
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    Yep, shifted later, presumably to make way for the signalling switchbox which in turn had to be moved up and out of the way when the deicing gear was fitted.
    That had to be put somewhere where the pilot could easily adjust and pump that system, again, my guess. So the **** (EDIT oh, alright "tap" ) went forward
    within reach and the pump sat down beside the seat where "up and down" motion is easy for the right hand.
    Last edited by Tony Hill; 18th August 2016 at 09:06.
    In Memory of:
    Flt Lt Tony Hill who successfully photographed a small "Würzburg radar" at Bruneval. 5th Dec 1941

  6. #6
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    No takers then? I did a heap of scouring last night, through every book and note I have. No luck. I DO need to retrieve Dr Price's book from a mate to check in that.

    I'm going to assume that the "pipe" is only on the very early aircraft as P9374 does not have it.
    In Memory of:
    Flt Lt Tony Hill who successfully photographed a small "Würzburg radar" at Bruneval. 5th Dec 1941

  7. #7
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    This a completely random answer, off the top of my head....and without thinking too much. Or referring to anything. So don't shoot me down in flames! It isn't control lock bars/stowage perchance?
    Editor: 'Britain at War' Magazine

    A 'Key Publishing' product - Britain's Best Selling Military History Monthly

  8. #8
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    Here's a close up. Still none the wiser.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
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    Well, maybe not completely "none the wiser" Ian. Thanks for the photo great stuff!

    First off, it pretty much confirms that they ARE hinged receiving rings and that they are closed by a nut and bolt, therefore not likely to hold something that is removed and used and then replaced in the air.

    Second, the extra set of temp gauges is interesting, as is the second added instrument platform top right. BTW, the legend on the gauges plate reads "Glycol Inlet", if you negative the image (an old trick) the words are quite plain. This aircraft is obviously set up as a test bed.




    Below are a couple of shots of K5054 and there IS something there. Not sure whether it is brass, as it could be in one photo, or more like an oil filter holder in an old car, as it looks in the second.





    Now if it is brass, (barometric? ) it could be a data recorder. Perhaps, as most of the early production was tested in some way or another?

    Anybody got any other ideas from these photos.

    And I am about to set into my Spitfire I Panel GAs to try to find out what the extra hole in the instrument panel next to the fuel gauge is too, as THAT appears to be right where the receiving rings are pointing. That indicates some connection to something behind the panel.

    Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice . . .
    Last edited by Tony Hill; 19th August 2016 at 11:59.
    In Memory of:
    Flt Lt Tony Hill who successfully photographed a small "Würzburg radar" at Bruneval. 5th Dec 1941

  10. #10
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    Well, it has taken nearly two years of backwards and forwards but I think we have solved the mystery.

    Richard from Airtech pointed out the other night that he couldn't see evidence of a Kygas Priming Pump on Frame 8 on the Prototype, even though there is clearly a 3 way Primingcock on the frame. That got me thinking and after a long night of searching I stumbled across an old Tractor Fuel priming pump that looked almost exactly like this:



    This satisfies the three main conditions that I had on identifying the item vis

    1. The need for a hole in the panel for wiring/piping to go through forward.

    2. The retaining rings are bolt held, indicating a relatively "permanent" attachment

    3. The bracket, towel rack, whatever you want to call it...is physically bolted TO the instrument panel, indicating the need for a certain amount of rigidity.

    So it would appear that this is a priming pump, predating the use of the more familiar Kygas and, at least for my purposes, I'm calling this one "solved". The only question I have is whether that pump was fitted to all early Spitfires and removed in favour of the Kygas, or whether the bracket was included on early production Spitfires but the Kygas was introduced in the meantime. On that point, "Spitfire Knuckle" has always mystified me a little as there really doesn't seem to be any significant furniture in the way to hit. But if this pump was in the early production Spits.. it would have conceivably been in the way of the main pump handle.

    The most significant clue would probably be had from the early drawings of Frame 8 (lacking the Kygas hole??) but alas, I have only ever found later drawings for the Spitfire I, including the automatic hydraulic landing gear pump. So it won't show that anyhow (nor does it show the Bowden cable routing of the Landing Lamp Control Dipping Lever)

    Anyway, if anybody is interested, that is my new theory.

    I'm not sure any of the pilots who flew well before the war are still with us to ask, or if they would remember such a minor detail?

    regards

    Darryl
    In Memory of:
    Flt Lt Tony Hill who successfully photographed a small "Würzburg radar" at Bruneval. 5th Dec 1941

  11. #11
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    Im thinking it was either a quick fix to get her flying or the parts werent reliable enough to include large scale production.Hence the change to Kigas..
    "If the C.O. ask's you to be Tail End Charlie...just shoot him!!!....A Piece of Cake.
    http://spitfirea58-27.blogspot.com.au/

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