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Thread: RAF Museum Hendon - Closure / Dispersion of Battle of Britain Hall

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM2 View Post
    The Eastern Front was where the European War was won for the Allies, and the turning point was Stalingrad. 80 percent of the total German Army casualties occurred on the East Front, however the Soviet contribution is usually overlooked as it doesn't sit well in the 'West'.

    Anyway, I suppose this a bit too much of a thread drift and perhaps should have its own thread...
    By all means start that other thread; it would be interesting to compare the Battle-of-Britain in context.

    One thing though, I think the, often quoted, statistic that 80% of all German casualties occurred on the Eastern Front is wrong, or is being quoted wrongly; I think it is correct to say that 80% of German war deaths occurred on the Eastern Front. Which is not the same thing.

    Stalingrad was an important battle, there is no doubt about it, but if you know anything about Stalingrad, you will know the fate of the tens of thousands of Germans that surrendered there. I do not wish, in any way, to denigrate the achievements or sacrifices of the Soviet people during the war but it is a gross oversimplification to equate the number of German war dead with apportioning credit for the eventual Allied victory.
    WA$.

  2. #122
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    I had a really good chat to the PR manager at the RAF Museum. I can see that they have given a lot of thought to the Changes. I guess we will have to wait and see what the future holds. The Battle of Britain holds a special place in my heart....it was the time when Britain stood alone with the Commonwealth. We came so very very close to being invaded. The people got behind the forces. Sure Stalingrad was important but that is not what is at discussion here.
    I do find it offensive that we are all expected to trawl the Internet for information on the RAFM otherwise we are not really interested in the museum....rubbish! As I said in an earlier reply....some of us do not have the time to surf all day. I have a job to do.

  3. #123
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    There's nothing wrong with revamping or change... but to ignore a key event is just wrong. There is so much more than the planes in there... the blast pen, which could be rebuilt outside with the replica Spitfire in it... the medals, and I wonder if Goerings collection would have any relevance in the main hall?

  4. #124
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    Anyone been to the museum recently? Is the Battle of Britain hall closed or empty?
    mmitch.

  5. #125
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    Visited last week. B of B hall open. Bit surprised which aeroplanes they have taken apart. Defiant wingless and lots of panels off; hasn't been back at Hendon that long after a major rebuild? Jungmann, likewise and a relatively newer addition in terms of when it last flew. The German types have lots of fairings removed which is very interesting to see. The only aeroplane that, at face value, really looks like it will need a serious amount of work to it is the Spitfire.

    The Mile Stones hall has some big gaps as part of the re shuffle.

    Still a great way to spend a few hours though.

  6. #126
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    From previous replies the Defiant and Jungmann are two airframes moving to Cosford, although I expect the Jungmann will go to Stafford for storage.

  7. #127
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    If we go back to basics the RAF Museum= the life and times of the RAF, the 2nd WW was the biggest event in the life of the RAF and arguably the BoB was the RAF's biggest achievement in the 2nd WW so should be prominent, with the a/c it fought against closely followed by the Bombing campaign and the a/c involve which built and brought the RAF the power and strength it had in 1945. So these 2 events should be basic the aim after that should be a representative a/c flown by the RAF over the years... as Sergei said simples.

    regards,
    jack...


    this post may contain grammatical errors...

  8. #128
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    I was there on Monday and have to admit that I had missed the fact that this was happening.
    Having been a visitor since it opened, I think in 1982, it was a bit of a shock.

    Upon questioning one of the attendants, a very nice chap told us, most of the original 'few' have now passed away and the younger generation have no idea about who these chaps were!!
    Sorry but isn't that why you have museums, to educate the likes of the younger generation about an aerial conflict that turned the tide!

    Terrible shame....
    Albert
    www.warbirdsim.com

  9. #129
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    I can remember talking to a staff member there about 20 years ago and he told me that teachers visiting for a briefing before a school visit sometimes expressed surprise that the Battle of Britain really happened!
    mmitch.

  10. #130
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    Hendon has long lost its grandure and sense of occasion.

    The entrance (before the milestones building) had a presence, the galleries were special.

    Now a grotty cafe exists right in the middle of the helicopter display, lousy dumb signage hanging from the ceiling. (Cosford particularly bad at this) a third of Milestones is a wasted space. And now our finest hour dispersed. By the way the money paid for the sky dance sculpture has FIFA esq corruption written all over it!

    Credit though I think the WW1 hangars are excellent as is Cold War at Cosford.

    Its dumbed down and I half expect to see a giant ball pool at Hendon next time I visit.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbert View Post
    Sorry but isn't that why you have museums, to educate the likes of the younger generation about an aerial conflict that turned the tide!??

    Terrible shame....
    Albert
    www.warbirdsim.com
    May once have been the case but quite a few museums, not only the RAF Museum, have moved themselves into the "theme park" industry.... I feel that "the independents", won't name them, but I assume you can guess which ones a mean, make a better job of presenting our history.

    Planemike

  12. #132
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    By independents do you mean those museums that are little more than a few small sheds full of excavated scrap metal?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    By independents do you mean those museums that are little more than a few small sheds full of excavated scrap metal?
    .................

    Errrrr.... no, definitely not. Not sure which you have in mind. Think there might be several "independent museums" who would not recognise themselves in that description.
    Last edited by Planemike; 23rd June 2016 at 14:14.

  14. #134
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    Methinx Meddle is a bit of a troll

  15. #135
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    I'm not trolling. By definition a troll is somebody that is arguing a point they don't personally believe with the intention of deliberately angering other forum members.

    Forum members that keep ****ting soundly on any museum that tries to make any meaningful changes to frankly dull display practices could be trolling, by your definition. The notion that any museum that isn't simply a shed of aircraft is somehow a theme park is prime trolling.

    I'm more of an inconvenience, because I'm arguing counter to what many on this forum seem to think comprises a good museum, and this forum seems to enjoy hearing the same crap ad nauseum, rather than entertain dissenting views. There are several websites that detail the UK's various aviation museums. Beyond Duxford, Cosford, Hendon etc there are several large museums with interesting collections and a lot of small museums with assorted jumble, clutter and scrap metal. I sense that some of these museums accept any old junk due to the hoarding tendencies of the 'curators', and not because they actually serve much of a purpose as exhibits. These museums might be favoured on these forums but, judging by Trip Advisor, they aren't popular with the general public, who ultimately provide the income for these sorts of places.

    More generally, I think what this forum considers a good museum, and what the general population consider a good museum, might be completely separate things!
    Last edited by Meddle; 23rd June 2016 at 15:16.

  16. #136
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    Tricky to say what makes a good museum because visitors have different needs. A family might want a theme park style with audio visual displays, some exhibits that kids can clamber inside. An enthusiast wants to see a collection of well shown items with descriptions,perhaps models by the parts shown as at East Kirkby and if space permits full size airframes. they might also like to clamber inside. A researcher likes good archives. We all like helpful and informed staff. And a place to rest and eat and drink either your own packed lunch or a cafe. Jumble and clutter comes from a desire to save items from scrapping despite the museum having low funds for a bigger place. Donations of items are accepted or they risk being thrown out, I know of several items the RAF museum refused which would have been scrapped but were saved by the Air Gunners Association.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    More generally, I think what this forum considers a good museum, and what the general population consider a good museum, might be completely separate things!
    When it comes to the important things I do not trust the general population to make the right decision...

    ...the preservation of our history should not be decided on whether the public find it entertaining!
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 23rd June 2016 at 20:37.
    WA$.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post
    When it comes to the important things I do not trust the general population to make the right decision...!
    CD............Wonder what you will make of their decision today? Think there has been some sort "referendum": hear many of them have been allowed to vote on their own....!!!!

  19. #139
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    Not sure I trust the general population to make the 'right' decision in the referendum either...

    ...but then I'm not sure there is a 'right' decision!
    WA$.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meddle View Post
    I'm not trolling. By definition a troll is somebody that is arguing a point they don't personally believe with the intention of deliberately angering other forum members.

    Forum members that keep ****ting soundly on any museum that tries to make any meaningful changes to frankly dull display practices could be trolling, by your definition. The notion that any museum that isn't simply a shed of aircraft is somehow a theme park is prime trolling.

    I'm more of an inconvenience, because I'm arguing counter to what many on this forum seem to think comprises a good museum, and this forum seems to enjoy hearing the same crap ad nauseum, rather than entertain dissenting views. There are several websites that detail the UK's various aviation museums. Beyond Duxford, Cosford, Hendon etc there are several large museums with interesting collections and a lot of small museums with assorted jumble, clutter and scrap metal. I sense that some of these museums accept any old junk due to the hoarding tendencies of the 'curators', and not because they actually serve much of a purpose as exhibits. These museums might be favoured on these forums but, judging by Trip Advisor, they aren't popular with the general public, who ultimately provide the income for these sorts of places.

    More generally, I think what this forum considers a good museum, and what the general population consider a good museum, might be completely separate things!

    Hmmm,

    Tin shed? CHECK

    Small? CHECK

    www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/museum.php.

    Lots of old junk? CHECK

    Tripadvisor reviews? CHECK

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attrac...97806393582245

    'spect I'll get me coat then. :P

    TT
    Our Beech 18 & T-6@www.beechrestorations.com
    Visit Sywell Aviation Museum @
    www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/museum.php
    Sywell Airshow 17.8.2014

  21. #141
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    Great reviews for Sywell ,TexanTomcat, on my list to visit when i finally get my trip down from Scotland.

  22. #142
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    Just shows what can be achieved........... Will one day have to go there with time to spare, rather than just "popping in" when Aero Expo or the PFA Rally is on..... (whoops, think they like to be called LAA nowadays !!!).

    Bit of thread drift here.............. The first entry in my Dad's log book is 02 May 1943 when he took to the air in Tiger Moth T6366 with 6 EFTS at Sywell. Two years to the day before I was born.
    Last edited by Planemike; 26th June 2016 at 09:12.

  23. #143
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    Thanks chaps, I was being a bit naughty

    Someone's gone and lobbed an 'angar with a Spitfire, Seafire, Sea Fury (news just in) and SE5 in it next to us n'all. Praps they read the Tripadvisor entries too. Seem like nice folk though
    Our Beech 18 & T-6@www.beechrestorations.com
    Visit Sywell Aviation Museum @
    www.sywellaerodrome.co.uk/museum.php
    Sywell Airshow 17.8.2014

  24. #144
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    Meddle, some of the nicest and thought provoking museums were covered by your description.....sheds with scrap metal. One mans scrap is another's history. I don't have any issues with making museums more interesting, accessible and enjoyable. Our museum is very hands on and popular.

  25. #145
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    Coming back to the RAF museum...have the staff who patrol the exhibits gained any knowledge? Do they respond to visitors questions?

  26. #146
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    Confirmation that small museums have a place safegaurding items ...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...sts-admit-the/

  27. #147
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    The old bloke in the Milestones, what a rude individual! He told me that the Twin Pioneer had gon e to Cosford, I found it stuffed under R5868 when I last visited.
    pb::

  28. #148
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    Twin Pioneer? Did he have double vision? as it was the Single Pioneer that was at Hendon.

  29. #149
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    They were both at Cosford in June 2014.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Robert Whitton,
    Edinburgh, Scotland

  30. #150
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    The Single Pioneer was in Milestones at Hendon alongside a Piston Provost, both painted in Omani colours as part of an exhibition about Bristish-Omani relations. The Twin Pin has been at Cosford all along as far as I'm aware.
    "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease." Sergei Sikorsky

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