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Thread: Russia moving tac air troops to Syria

  1. #7261
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    Aahh - posturing for the camera - they always have to say that. Bear in mind what Basar-Assad (and his father's policy) on the state of Israel is, you don't actually believe that any US president can actually be seen to support the Assad regime, now do you?

  2. #7262
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    Let's stick with the military aspect of it.


    Iran made Shaed-129 was downed by an Israeli attack helicopter after having allegedly entered in their air space (but over occupied Golan) for about a minute and half (Gasp!).
    After this IAF launched a series of air strikes to T4 airbase, hundreds of Kms inside Syria, trying to destroy a command center of such UAVs (no one nearer?) so quite an hasty move IMHO.
    For what it seems they have not moved their planes to bomb it directly but they have used instead stand off weapons.
    Syria claims to have intercepted the majority of them but surely they have fired back a S-200 from the same base and nailed the F-16 still over Syrian airspace.
    Plane was however able to get back to Golan hills where it crashed (in a zone inhabited by Arabs and Druze).
    While the first claim was not verifiable easily, the fact that IAF had to repeat the strike in the same zone seems to point on the fact the results were not the ones they expected for.
    So, surely a F-16 down it is not a great game changer but the fact that Syrian Air defence were able to get the archer and not just the arrows seem me a significant change in itself.

  3. #7263
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    I think you missed the point of the second airstrike: it was a political message to raise the cost of defending the Iran forces inside Syria meddling with Israel affairs. Given the rapidity of the launch of the second wave, it will reasonable to assess that those targets were already "on the book" (it was not a Seek and Destroy mission). Hence, the second strike, devoid of any tactical meaning (see the video of the ctrl command truck allegedly identified as the one piloting the drone) was to give a strong political message to the Assad regime. Moreover, the fact that Israel toned its voice against Russia potential willingness to hear the call of Iran and Syria to come to their rescue is a strong double move to isolate Syria in this position.

    Syrian media reported that the strikes were well heard inside Damas. This is not an enduring perspective for someone claiming to be the Strong Man in charge.

    So, I think the play book was scripted since long. Remarkably, given the dangerosity of the Syrian airspace (see how again a Turkish attack helo was shotdown today) and the focus of the Syrian AD against such attack, it is notable that Israel is still able to lead and sustain such strike. And let's not forget one of the pilot that was badly hurt during the ejection (canopy?).

    The two F-16 pilots ejected as the plane went down in northern Israel. The pilots were taken to the hospital in stable condition. One of the pilots is in serious condition.
    and



    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...rael-1.5806508
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 10th February 2018 at 23:19.

  4. #7264
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    Let's stick with the military aspect of it.
    There were multiple targets attacked at different locations over the course of this encounter. I have no information on the order of these attacks, or the type of weapons used for all the targets beyond what has been publicly shared by either parties but do share if you have any additional information to what's below:




    Based on IDF Account via Twitter:

    Moments ago, IAF aircraft, targeted the Syrian Aerial Defense System & Iranian targets in Syria. 12 targets, including 3 aerial defense batteries & 4 Iranian military targets, were attacked. Anti-aircraft missiles were fired towards Israel, triggering alarms in northern Israel
    ^ This likely happened after the initial strike, which appears to have taken place earlier and during which the Israel F-16 was struck. The targets struck over the course of these events concentrated in and around Damascus and military base (Tiyas Military Airbase) east of Homs. It is entirely possible that in retaliation to the F-16 shoot down, the IDF targeted a different set of targets in the area aimed more heavily at air-defense systems in the region.
    Last edited by bring_it_on; 10th February 2018 at 23:57.
    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  5. #7265
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    That Turkish helicopter look like poor maintaince or small armed fire not some superduper weopon. The Israel raid more Twitter function like hitting desert . Some of airbases have Russian heli and troops and Israel is warned stay away from it.

  6. #7266
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    The helicopter shooting down the UAV was a AH-64 It seems to be a http://www.airliners.net/photo/Israe...araf/1212430/L from 113 squadron and Ramon AB, which are temporary send to the North = Ramat David AB. To reach the approaching UAV over the Golan in time, the Israelis have to have tracked it or its comand-line for some time already.
    The crash-site of the F-16, maybe a F-16D from 109 squadron and Ramat David AB was just around 10 km north from that at Harduf, when forced by the loss of control to eject. Google Earth will show that Harduf is western Galilee and not the Golan nearly 50 km to the east.
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...1982-1.5806840
    "Brig. Gen. Tomer Bar, second in command of Israel's Air Force, said Saturday that the Israeli strike in Syria Saturday morning – after an Israeli F-16 was shot down.......after the F-16I crashed."
    Now it is official. It was a F-16I/Sufa from Ramon or Hatzerim and not a F-16D/Barak from Ramat David as I assumed before.
    Last edited by Sens; 11th February 2018 at 01:59.

  7. #7267
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    Thanks, bring on it.
    It seems me that the timetable you publish is not in contrast with my reconstruction:

    the first wave of attacks were started very soon, an hour from the initial incident, so it was surely more risky than usual ones targeting shipment to Hezbollah, prepared well in advance and by surprise.

    Time of second one seems confirmed by sources on the ground.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    About the veridicity of relative claims: ascertain who between the Baath regime and the IAF is the bigger liar is something just impossible...

    Still in the case in question the report of just two dead person can be an hint of not such a great effectiveness.
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 11th February 2018 at 02:11.

  8. #7268
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    Good. at least Syrian air defense still exist and working. I would love to see more result with less missiles expenditure and alot more aggressive employment in the manner of Soviet "KavKaz" operation back in 1970's.

  9. #7269
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    F-16I Sufa was shot down by old S-125 Pechora-2M (SAM-3). Al Arabia also report, that F-15 made emergency landing in Israel, after being hit and damaged by Syrian SAM.

  10. #7270
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    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...s-skies-542275
    As I assumed, it was a AH-64D/Saraf of 113 Sqn.

  11. #7271
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    What weapon was used in this shootdown, Hellfire missile?

  12. #7272
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    It seems to be a gun hit. I was also amazed by the accuracy. Probably That they don't load any tracers.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 11th February 2018 at 17:19.

  13. #7273
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    NOW MATTIS ADMITS THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE ASSAD USED POISON GAS ON HIS PEOPLE

    Lost in the hyper-politicized hullabaloo surrounding the Nunes Memorandum and the Steele Dossier was the striking statement by Secretary of Defense James Mattis that the U.S. has “no evidence” that the Syrian government used the banned nerve agent Sarin against its own people.

    This assertion flies in the face of the White House (NSC) Memorandum which was rapidly produced and declassified to justify an American Tomahawk missile strike against the Shayrat airbase in Syria.

    Mattis offered no temporal qualifications, which means that both the 2017 event in Khan Sheikhoun and the 2013 tragedy in Ghouta are unsolved cases in the eyes of the Defense Department and Defense Intelligence Agency...
    http://www.newsweek.com/now-mattis-a...-people-801542

    So what was that Tomahawk missile strike on the Syrian air base all about?

  14. #7274
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    The box indicates a Hellfire I believe. They were tested successfully on drone targets back in the 1980s. Apparently they even trialled an IIR version.

  15. #7275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levsha View Post
    http://www.newsweek.com/now-mattis-a...-people-801542

    So what was that Tomahawk missile strike on the Syrian air base all about?
    French already did big climb down on Syria and Merkel relegated Ukraine to dustbin. and that is just beginning because Egypt/Iran/Turkey are getting equiped with Russian technology and at some point they are going to squeeze other wealthy Arabs and Israel. It's there geographical advantage.

  16. #7276
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    Quote Originally Posted by haavarla
    Lol! Do you claim the Kurds are now part of Russian mercenaries or what?
    It's pretty obvious he was talking about these guys.

    https://mideast.liveuamap.com/en/201...ries-killed-in

    https://mideast.liveuamap.com/en/201...nds-to-reports
    Last edited by ijozic; 13th February 2018 at 11:19.

  17. #7277
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    So far a fairly muted response by the IAF...just a lot of chest beating via the media

  18. #7278
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    Probably both (actually more) parts are unwilling of a further escalation ATM and are instead frantically analyzing the military and consequently political implication of the double engagement.

    Although we would probably not know much of the military action in itself (we are neither sure what weapon nailed the F-16) the endgame itself (if it will last) seem to suggest that a sort of new point of balance has been found.
    Let's say that one part know that its previously almost absolute freedom of action is no more and the other know that, despite his augmented capability to react, the adversary is still a formidable one and so it is not in his actual interest to escalate further.

    New Israeli well planned raids against Hezbollah shipments would surely happen but no more hasty actions like this one.

    P.S. And finally we have get to have an almost serene and on topic discussion about a potentially higly emotional and divisive matter. Let's us all save the whole page and use it as a reference for future ones.
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 13th February 2018 at 09:46.

  19. #7279
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    End of the road for the IS bunch in Idlib finally (I guess they are from the IS pocket south of the Hama-Aleppo road who the regime gave a corridor to Idlib a second time already). They look so ragtag, one almost feels sorry for them.

    https://mideast.liveuamap.com/en/201...-army-arrested

    https://mideast.liveuamap.com/en/201...-and-childrens

    Wonder if some of them can rejoin the HTS or perhaps the Turkish brand of FSA is still hiring? After a few strict reprogramming courses, of course.
    Last edited by ijozic; 13th February 2018 at 11:19.

  20. #7280
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    The "fairly muted response" by the IDF involved attacks against three Syrian air defence batteries, four targets involving Iranian forces deployed in Syria, plus and five other unspecified targets.

    What is still unclear in open-source reports are the number and type of missiles used to down the F-16, and the location of the aircraft at the time it was hit.
    Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

  21. #7281
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    IAF claimed to have knocked out those Syrian and Iranians Anti-air systems..
    Guess time will tell.
    Thanks

  22. #7282
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  23. #7283
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    In other words, Russia and Assad planning another attack and pre-empting the narrative.

  24. #7284
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    Mercurius, I think he intend to say that there has not been further actions in the days after the one in question.

    So one part say to have caused incredible havoc and the other replies that the damage was instead quite limited and given that in the ME everyone lie as there will no tomorrow and the two states in question are champions in this sport, let's stick to the very few facts we are certain of.

    Despite all the media rumor of this one, there have been further engagements between the two, the most of them last year after the Air defence network was revamped, thanks to russian and iranian assistance but above all thank to the liberation of large part of Syrian territory thanks to the SAA,NDF and Hezb victories.
    Making a simple sum, if I would believe to the reports of just one part, at this rate (I follow conflict day by day by the times of the battle of Al Qusayr, so I have missed no one of them) the IAF would have destroyed the Syrian Air defence four or five times according to their own declarations, while according to the one of Syrians, Israel would have gone bankrupt for the numbers of PGM they claim to have intercepted.

    P.S. Said so, I gave a good credibility rating to the reports I have published in post #7267 (otherwise I would have published them ça la va sans dire): they come from sources on the ground and not from centralized propaganda outlet, Fire Brigate one report precisely damages and life lost (RIP to both) and let us guess between the lines of their not military language what type of missiles the regiment was equipped with i.e. Pantsir.
    Last edited by Marcellogo; 13th February 2018 at 14:43.

  25. #7285
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionJackson
    In other words, Russia and Assad planning another attack and pre-empting the narrative.
    Yes, absolutely.. that is exactly what you usually do when you're winning.. plan chlorine gas attacks serving no tactical purpose.. and then you even announce them in advance.. makes sense, totally..
    Last edited by MSphere; 13th February 2018 at 17:55.

  26. #7286
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    It was hit over Northern Israel near the cockpit close to the village of Harduf (~7 miles north of Ramat David AB). Report of the crew. The pilot was wounded and started the ejection immideately no time left for report. The second F-16I, was able to avoid the blast.
    That triggert the response to the Syrian AD, when further action was stopped by a phone call of Putin. Source Jerusalem Post
    See the CHAIN OF EVENTS given by bring_it_on
    Last edited by Sens; 13th February 2018 at 18:43.

  27. #7287
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  28. #7288
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    I am surprised.. Thought the jet was crippled over Syrian territory and somehow got back to Israel before it went down. But shooting down an IDF jet 50 km deep into Israeli territory, that's a quite different story..
    Last edited by MSphere; 13th February 2018 at 22:15.

  29. #7289
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    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...iefs-1.5808981
    https://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/...1039061432.jpg
    Here are the remains of a Syrian SAM at Alonei Abba/Israel, just 4 miles north of Ramat David AB. The F-16I crashed near Harduf/Israel just 7 miles north of Ramat David AB. The F-16I used stand-off weaponary from height The debriefing showed the F-16s were surprised on the way home over Israel.
    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...n-Syria-542191
    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...an-fire-542395
    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Isr...lled-us-542346

  30. #7290
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    That are the remains of a Syrian SAM 3 in Kaoukaba/Lebanon around 9 miles north of Metulla/Israel. Foto: ZYAD SHOUFI/EPA-EFE/REX/Shutterstock
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Sens; 13th February 2018 at 23:03.

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