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Thread: Short Belfast Status - Cairns Airport - Updated to April 2018

  1. #31
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    Nothing is out of mind, and in an ideal world, all these aircraft would be restored. But it requires time, money and willpower. The Wroughton Constellation is complete, restored and under no threat. It's safe. So is the P1121, which would be a wonderful project if someone were to actually finish it off (it comprises the complete fuselage and one wing. The rest could fairly easily be built. But it's not under threat - just waiting for time, money and willpower. A Bristol Freighter is a major, significant British post-war type that is not represented here. Bringing one home to Filton is an extremely good idea. Can't see why that should perplex you, Meddle. It might not be a "sexy warbird", but we sold several hundred of them. While you're on the subject of Bristol, how about restoring that last Brigand too?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by alertken View Post
    Extinction is the natural fate of the inadequate. Effort to preserve should be put to the good, not to the bad and/or ugly...
    Disagree entirely; that's how we got into the situation that we've worked so hard to rectify!

    If that were the case British aviation in the Second World War would only be represented by the Spitfire, Mosquito and Lancaster, with the Hurricane, Defiant, Gladiator, Typhoon, Tempest, Halifax, Stirling, Wellington, Hampden, Blenheim and Whitley all scrapped...

    ...as they all very nearly were.....and not confined even to the history books?

    Sorry, we shouldn't be preserving the better (foreign) aircraft that Britain should have operated (or produced), we should be preserving the actual aircraft that Britain did produce and operate...

    ...otherwise 'history' will record that the only aircraft, or the only 'good' aircraft, were American!
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 28th February 2017 at 16:22.
    WA$.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by markb View Post
    Can't see why that should perplex you, Meddle. It might not be a "sexy warbird", but we sold several hundred of them.
    It is simply a matter of my prejudices. The Bristol Freighter was slow and ugly in service, and shipping one from the other side of the world seems like a waste of money, in my prejudiced opinion of course. There is something about seeing one sitting next to Concorde as the twin pinnacles of Bristol's contribution to aviation that I find darkly amusing...

  4. #34
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    Better than future generations just wondering why something as unimaginative as 'Freighter Way' was chosen for one of the side-streets in the Filton logistics / retail park...

    ...along with the more imaginative 'Concorde Boulevard', 'Brigand Avenue' and 'Belvedere Street'!
    WA$.

  5. #35
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    The B170 coming to Filton is one of the most exciting pieces of news for years, but I am a prop liner nut! Going back to the Belfast has the axe actually fallen, any photos? The belfast was always a nice aircraft. So few were built and their military careers so short compared with their Transport Command stablemates. Plus they are pretty much the biggest UK built aircraft that you could preserve and would take a lot of effort.

  6. #36
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    Apparently "Hector" was still very much "in one piece" at Cairns on Friday the 3th of March 2017.
    Do not know how much longer though.
    http://www.airnieuws.nl updated per 17 June 2018. Fokker, etc.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by plainmad View Post
    There you go if its not an american type no interest in saving it.
    Nonsense. An example of the Douglas C-133, the broadly American equivalent, is set to be scrapped at the defunct Chanute museum.
    Too big to move by road, too expensive to fly.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creaking Door View Post

    Sorry, we shouldn't be preserving the better (foreign) aircraft that Britain should have operated (or produced), we should be preserving the actual aircraft that Britain did produce and operate...

    ...otherwise 'history' will record that the only aircraft, or the only 'good' aircraft, were American!
    So the RAF crews that gave their lives in Hudson's, Mustangs, Catalinias, Dakotas, Thunderbolts, etc etc. should have their aircraft overlooked?
    Surely, you don't want that.

    Likewise the sterling service of the Hercules, Sabres, Phantoms, Neptunes, Washingtons, Whirlwind, Wessex, Sea King, Sentry, King Airs and the rest should be honored.

    For a country with a great aviation history, there is a lot of petty nationalism here.
    I don't see many 707s or C-130s being preserved.

    Let's face it, large transports are never going to have the popularity (as a display or as a flying "warbird" or antique as a "sexy" warbird fighter.

    If one feels strongly, go to a meeting of warbird operators...I'm sure they'll have a marquee at Legends...and ask them to quit funding countless Spitfire and Mosquito rebuilds and put some of their money into a Bristol, Argosy, or Belfast.

    Let us know how that works out.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 4th March 2017 at 19:27.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  9. #39
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    Have to agree with J Boyle here. We should be preserving more than just home built aircraft.

    And I am finding the lack of appreciation for the less famous, less glasmorous and less successful aircraft on a forum visted by aviation enthusiasts about the preservation of hitoric aviation slightly concerning (of course my sarcasm detector might be on the blink).

    The Bristol Feighter was a British post-war success story.It does has as much right to be preserved at Filton as Concord and I do hope that soon one will be.

    The Short Belfast did see service in the RAF. And if it is not the largest British designed and built aeroplane then it must come very close and is certainly to largest to be preserved..

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by markb View Post
    ..... the P1121, which would be a wonderful project if someone were to actually finish it off (it comprises the complete fuselage and one wing. The rest could fairly easily be built. But it's not under threat - just waiting for time, money and willpower. .....
    Well that is rather an exaggeration. The P.1121 is a partly constructed hulk consisting of a centre fuselage shell, a cockpit shell and one wing only partly skinned. It is not my idea of easy to finish off. Anyway what would be the point, it is an accurate representation of its history as it stands.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HP111 View Post
    Well that is rather an exaggeration. The P.1121 is a partly constructed hulk consisting of a centre fuselage shell, a cockpit shell and one wing only partly skinned. It is not my idea of easy to finish off. Anyway what would be the point, it is an accurate representation of its history as it stands.
    I fully agree: if someone wants to build a replica then fine. But why would you "finish off" a valuable set of artefacts which were never complete in period? I does however deserve an inspired restoration and display.

    But this is off-topic: let's hope that the Cairns Belfast has earned a stay of execution.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Boyle View Post
    So the RAF crews that gave their lives in Hudson's, Mustangs, Catalinias, Dakotas, Thunderbolts, etc etc. should have their aircraft overlooked? Surely, you don't want that.
    No, not at all, but none of these aircraft should receive preferential treatment for preservation on the grounds that they were 'better' than aircraft produced by Britain during the war, as was the original suggestion.

    Also, all these aircraft have a healthy preserved population in the United States (and other countries) that is not perhaps the case with the equivalent British aircraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Boyle View Post
    Likewise the sterling service of the Hercules.....Phantoms...
    Agreed, but although these are undoubtably far more 'significant' aircraft, and more significant in British service too, these should never take precedence over the Belfast, Beverley, Argosy or Sea Vixen, for example.

    Of course I have no problem with RAF examples of the Hercules or Phantom being preserved either; but they shouldn't take precedence just because they were 'better' or even because they were more significant.
    WA$.

  13. #43
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    Surprised at that, Meddle. The history of aviation deserves to be properly represented, not reduced to the pointy and shiny. And if you wish to be Darwinian, the Bristol Freighter was far more commercially sound, and produced in greater numbers, than Concorde.

  14. #44
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    Soooo, six months on can anyone confirm or otherwise that the Belfast was indeed scrapped - or is this magnificent old transport aircraft still hanging on?



    Rob

  15. #45
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    Still there for the time being.

  16. #46
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    Thanks Brenden S. For as long as it survives then maybe just maybe there's a future for it - somehow somewhere!



    Rob

  17. #47
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    As far as the Bristol 170 is concerned, I hope you are not referring to ZK-CPT at Omaka in Blenheim. My father flew that for twenty years with Safe Air and it has a 35 year local flying history. It is also maintained in taxiing condition by a very dedicated group of volunteers.

    On the other hand there are a number of Bristol Frighteners in various stages of preservation, ranging from another taxiiable example with the RNZAF, two or three other static display examples, restaurants, shops, backpacker hostels to "Oh my giddy aunt!" scattered around NZ. Surely a nice static display example could come out of that if someone with the necessary were to take an interest. There is even an ex-RNZAF example on static display in Canada at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin. It was the last example to fly when it was donated by Hawkair and flown in to the museum's runway in 2004. There are static display 170s in Australia and Argentina too. Are there none at all in the UK? If you want to see how successful it was as a type, take a look at Wikipedia's list of civil and military operators.
    Last edited by ctayfor; 13th October 2017 at 02:01.

  18. #48
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    ctayfor, the RNZAF's Freighter at Wigram isn't taxiable - to the best of my knowledge CPT is the only running example anywhere.

    Until ZK-EPG arrives for Aerospace Bristol I understand there are no complete examples on display in the UK.
    "those who know keep quiet, and those who don't are frowned upon for asking." - snafu

  19. #49
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    I don't see many 707s or C-130s being preserved
    re the C-130 the simple reason is you wont and that is down to them still in service, so are a potential asset to sell on as airworthy to military operators the world over. Some already have been sold off, are the rest of the K's still in storage at Saints?.





    we are flogging off J's at the moment.

    https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/...ights-abusers/

  20. #50
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    Are all the RAF C-130J aircraft being retired then (as A400M finally enters RAF service)...

    ...does that make the C-130J 'historic' now?

    Yikes.....I feel old!
    WA$.

  21. #51
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    The UK Royal Air Force will continue operating its remaining Lockheed Martin C-130J tactical transports until 2035, with their service-life extension to be supported by a key structural upgrade programme.

    In a controversial move, the UK government's Strategic Defence and Security Review of 2010 proposed removing the RAF's entire C-130J fleet from service. But with the service facing a looming tactical airlift shortfall and delays to the introduction of tactical capabilities for its incoming Airbus Defence & Space A400M Atlas, this decision was partially reversed in its 2015 review, which identified a need to retain 14 Hercules.

    Flight Fleets Analyzer shows the RAF's C4-model C-130Js as being aged between 17 and 21 years. Its short-fuselage C5-standard examples have already been retired from use or placed in storage. The UK acquired an original 25 "Super Hercules", with one having been destroyed after sustaining damage from an improvised explosive device on landing at a remote airstrip in Iraq in 2007.

    The UK's Hercules fleet is based at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, along with 16 of the service's eventual 22 A400M tactical transports.

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...s-herc-439409/

    That's the problem, go to war in different countries and your peacetime planned useage goes out the window as you ramp up hours flown, thus the estimated fleet lives are effected.
    Similar happens when for budget restraints you cut a type, the emphasis on fullfilling the tasking then falls on other types and their utilisation goes through the roof meaning often a forecasted time out of service is advanced and the planned replacement is no longer available in the timeframe needed, hence you need to then go through expensive fleet life enhancements, probably similar to what the Herc will have.
    Last edited by TonyT; 13th October 2017 at 15:15.

  22. #52
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    Tony T one of the airframes in St Athan XV295 was sold and flew to the Austrians for Spares and I think two were flown out to Canada in 2014/15 to undergo upgrades before going to The Mexican AF From memory.

    The remaining aiframes have been/are being parted out this year as far as I can recall. I did see some picture of this at St A on a Facebook post, but doubt I could find that now

    T

  23. #53
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    I seem to remember reading on pprune, one of the ones the Mexicans bought was the problematic one of the fleet.

  24. #54
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    Sorry if I may just drift this thread in another direction ...

    Any chance for an update on the status of the Short Belfast at Cairns?

  25. #55
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    The Belfast is still there. 2 Dash8's however have had the chop.

  26. #56
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    https://fnqskies.blogspot.com.au/

    The link above suggests that there have been some engine runs recently.

  27. #57
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    Was in Cairns in December and got this shot of it from the plane.


  28. #58
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    Name:  BELF YBCS 130318.jpg
Views: 548
Size:  258.4 KB

  29. #59
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    Great, thanks for this! Pictures speak a thousand words!

  30. #60
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    Good news indeed. A bit weathered but holding on. Hell she even looks like shes ready to come home ��



    Rob

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