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Thread: Korea's KF-X: News & Discussion

  1. #31
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    Most interesting, thanks!
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
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  2. #32
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    Internalized smart weapons logically assumes targeting and navigation pod integration. I see neither.

    They should be working on integration of standoff munitions like Griffin, SDB, or whatnot. Mk84 is disappointing.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    Internalized smart weapons logically assumes targeting and navigation pod integration. I see neither.

    They should be working on integration of standoff munitions like Griffin, SDB, or whatnot. Mk84 is disappointing.
    http://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/bbs/vie...pn=2&num=74395

    Thankfully this is also all fan made. So no need to be disappointed.

  4. #34
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    It looks like the fans want F100's by the raw size comparison to F-35A and F-22A.

    I could see a single bay for 4 each, AIM-9X/AIM-132 and/or AIM-120, and support for perhaps a pair of semi-recessed AIM-120. CWB for another weapon and spare fuel on each side. So we're talking maybe another pair of AAM's under each wing for a maximum internal/external load out of 12 AAM, more than anyone would ask.

    I realize that the Koreans are producing F110's. It would seem natural to license produce an advanced F414, considering the close ties with GE. (Silly me still thinks they need twin F125's and to severely downscale everything to make the project affordable.) It would lend itself to obtaining help with AIM-9X/AIM-120 integration. They'll also want to develop it to use the future JAGM, JSM, SDB II, Griffin II, etc. It would probably force them to buy an OTS American AESA and ECCM suite, rather than allow them to develop their own.

    If the Europeans win the battle for the engines I could see MBDA step in and try to peddle AIM-132, MICA, SPEAR, Brimstone and Meteor. It would probably force them to buy an OTS European AESA and ECCM suite, too.

    Korea isn't just designing this for China. They also have to build this to deal with a newly aggressive Japan, the Russians, and any other potential threat against their sea routes.
    Last edited by MadRat; 6th August 2014 at 08:19.
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  5. #35
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    eurojet is nice, but flakey. look at the eurofighter program and promises all around about its potential but implementation taking forever.
    best korea stick to american

  6. #36
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    It's probably on grounds of raw cost. F100 is far cheaper than EJ200, F414, F110, M88, and slightly even less than F404.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    If the Europeans win the battle for the engines I could see MBDA step in and try to peddle AIM-132, MICA, SPEAR, Brimstone and Meteor. It would probably force them to buy an OTS European AESA and ECCM suite, too.
    Why? Engine and weapons and avionics suppliers are not the same companies. Saab already freely mixes and matches engine and avionic suppliers from a host of countries and companies.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    eurojet is nice, but flakey. look at the eurofighter program and promises all around about its potential but implementation taking forever.
    best korea stick to american
    The proposed developments for EJ200 (EJ220/230) are in the same place as F414 EPE and M88-9t: "give us the money and we will make it happen."
    Last edited by Rii; 2nd September 2014 at 14:27.

  9. #39
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    There is no doubt all three are expensive. F414EPE has the best chance for volume, therefore best projected cost. In reality the EJ200 doesn't have many future orders left whereas F414 is set for a decade more.

    But for one F414EPE you could just have F100-PW-229EEP with change to spare. Or F110-GE-132 with a little less left over. The latter two families of engines have more users yet. There are many more parts in the supply chain. And Korea has experience with both.
    Last edited by MadRat; 1st September 2014 at 15:55.
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  10. #40
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    F-414, EJ200, and M-88 being choose as alternatives for twin engine design. F-100 or F-110 being discussed by KAI for single engine design. Using F-100 or F-110 for double engine will increase the size outside the initial parameter of the design which come out on the 1st stage.

  11. #41
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    M88-3 is the only design small enough to justify their tight design specs. Unfortunately it's expensive and like the others, unless they pay for development for suped up versions, each pair just isn't powerful enough for a 50,000 pound fighter. It's like they really need a modern Pratt & Whitney PW1120. They are not going to stick to a design using a pair unless they select F414 due really to price and current availability.

    It will be strange IMHO if they don't revert back to one engine like the F110-GE-132 and downscale the whole project. Let's face it, the F110's sip fuel compared to the others. The cost is directly relative to the weight. It makes money sense to go the F110. The only better solution is the F135. (Which coincidentally costs what a pair of the others would anyhow.)

    If S. Korea truly sees Japan as a regional competitor then it may wish for something using twin F110-GE-132 or F100-PW-229. Japan's stealth fighter will be using engines in the 33-35K pounds of thrust region.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcross View Post
    Since everyone is posting their wishes for KF-X...
    I would like to see the engines spread a little farther apart, add 3D thrust vectoring, eliminate the tails, incorporate a large delta wing with 6 trailing edge control surfaces and a couple or four outboard spoilers.

    Doing so would provide a larger weapons bay between the engines, dramatically reduce side sector RCS, provide ample internal volume for fuel and provide maneuver performance as good as any Gen 4 jet.
    +1

    Thinking about it really does make you appreciate the PAK-FA planform.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    M88-3 is the only design small enough to justify their tight design specs. Unfortunately it's expensive and like the others, unless they pay for development for suped up versions, each pair just isn't powerful enough for a 50,000 pound fighter. It's like they really need a modern Pratt & Whitney PW1120. They are not going to stick to a design using a pair unless they select F414 due really to price and current availability.

    It will be strange IMHO if they don't revert back to one engine like the F110-GE-132 and downscale the whole project. Let's face it, the F110's sip fuel compared to the others. The cost is directly relative to the weight. It makes money sense to go the F110. The only better solution is the F135. (Which coincidentally costs what a pair of the others would anyhow.)

    If S. Korea truly sees Japan as a regional competitor then it may wish for something using twin F110-GE-132 or F100-PW-229. Japan's stealth fighter will be using engines in the 33-35K pounds of thrust region.
    And that IMO will be the bottleneck of that project at all ! Even if I'm sure that Japan has the capabilities to develop such a high-performance engine, it would nevertheless put it in the same class of engines like the US F119 or Russian 117 ... and if that can be done alone esp. with the given budget I don't think.


    By the way with all these "5th generation ducklings" which are just incubated anywhere (Turkey, Indi, Korea, ...) or are hatchling from the eggs (China, Japan) ... it will be interesting to see how or these can proceed ...
    Last edited by Deino; 2nd September 2014 at 08:34.
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    By the way with all these "5th generation ducklings" which are just incubated anywhere (Turkey, Indi, Korea, ...) or are hatchling from the eggs (China, Japan) ... it will be interesting to see how or these can proceed ...
    The Turkish military procurement department is pushing back against Turkey's 5th generation project, on the grounds that it's likely to be very expensive, with little prospect of recovering development costs from exports, & the money would be better spent elsewhere.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadRat View Post
    In reality the EJ200 doesn't have many future orders left whereas F414 is set for a decade more.
    I think a more prominent consideration would be which engine is likely to receive further investment without S. Korea having to fund that itself. None of the candidates are particularly promising in that respect, with EJ200 probably having the most limited prospects vs. US Navy still highly invested in Super Hornet, and French reliance on M88 (is M88/Snecma even in the picture for KF-X??) coupled with possibility of external funding via UAE.

    Future joint creation of a successor engine in ~2035-2040 timeframe should also be part of the calculus. Although there is no need to link one project to the other, it is worth noting that US is unlikely to need a successor to F414, relying exclusively on large engines going forward.

    But for one F414EPE you could just have F100-PW-229EEP with change to spare.
    Where are you getting these engine prices from? It would seem strange for F100 -- a significantly larger engine -- to be cheaper than F414 (which, even if not reaching the volumes of F100/110 families, is hardly a low-volume project like M88) unless it is simply not up to the same standard of technology. Given the timescale of the project, and the importance of SFC for lifecycle cost, lower acquisition cost for inferior technology and higher lifecycle cost would likely be an unacceptable trade-off.
    Last edited by Rii; 2nd September 2014 at 17:09.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    By the way with all these "5th generation ducklings" which are just incubated anywhere (Turkey, Indi, Korea, ...) or are hatchling from the eggs (China, Japan) ... it will be interesting to see how or these can proceed ...
    Need more belligerence from China to boost regional military spending!

    Re: Turkey & TF-X, I still think the Turkey-Sweden-Brazil axis is one to watch.
    Last edited by Rii; 2nd September 2014 at 14:22.

  17. #47
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    Maybe ... but to admit I do not hope but fear that the current and most recent rising Russian belligerence will rise additional regional military spending especially in Western-Europe !

    Anyway a certain counterweight from India and Korea against China wouldn't be far from bad. ... as such I really don't understand why both do not cooperate and even more Your idea of Brazil is brilliant.


    Deino
    ...

    He was my North, my South, my East and West,
    My working week and my Sunday rest,
    My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
    I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

    The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
    Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
    For nothing now can ever come to any good.
    -------------------------------------------------
    W.H.Auden (1945)

  18. #48
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    EDIT: Moved AMCA post to IAF thread.
    Last edited by Rii; 2nd September 2014 at 16:44.

  19. #49
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    F414 production volume is roughly equal to Typhoon volume. Its 3x the M88 production volume at least, but not a lot bigger than EJ200 production. F110 production volume is most of USAF F-16CJ fleet and quite a few exports, so not low volume by any stretch.
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  20. #50
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    ay folks! Newbie here, first time posting on keypublishing forum.

    Guess this KF-X thread has been abandoned for quite a while. Well, tbh, there are lots of other things to discuss about which is either more interesting or important or both of 'em than talkig about something related to KF-X. Anyways, I've found out several threads regarding KF-X in keypublishing though wasn't that popular thus lots of info in this thread is false and incomplete so I'll give a brief info about it.

    KF-X project was first mentioned on 3rd of November 2000 so roughly about 16 and a half years ago when the former president Kim, Dae Jung attended the shipment ceremony of KT-1 basic trainer. There he declared that Korea will develop an indigenous fighter jet which is fitted with up-to-date HW, SW and capabilities at latest till 2015, which, well, is not the case anymore. Then the ED of KF-X took place and there resulted the conventional main wing-tail wing configuration C100 model and European styled canard - main wing configuration C200. These initial designs developed further into C1/201/, C1/202 and finally, the C103 and C203.

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    KF-X c101 revealed in Seoul air show 2011

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    KF-X c201 from the official press of MoD, the 'Daily Kookbang' in 2011

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    Models of KF-X C103 and C203 displayed at national parliament in January the 2013, during the debate of national defense comittee

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    Internal configuration of KF-X C103. There is an aerial refueling probe but KFX will probably designed with a dock for a boom.

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    KFX C203 design

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    KF-X C104, the first improved model after the approval of KFX System development after 14 years of never-ending postpone. Revealed in October the 2015, at Seoul air show.

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    KF-X C105 going through series of subsonic wind tunnel test at KARI's facility in Daejon

    As you can see, the selected configuration is a main wing - tail wing C10X series.

    Anyways, before 2015 when KF-X was at last authorized, KF-X went through several ED processes though got stuck for -as what I've mentioned above - 14 years on ED and feasibility evaluation due to the changing of president and parliament members, reported lacking of feasibility from various sources who've conducted feasibility evaluation and most of all, lack or technology. Somehow this got through on year 2015, mainly due to the 3rd F-X, which the foreign 4.5th gen or 5th gen candidates were too expensive for the ROKAF to afford it and replace the aging F-5 in the 2020s and KF-16 in 2030s. Thus in-Korea built FA-50 had a good reputation within the ROKAF which gave an extra thrust for KF-X to get through the approval. Today, ADD and KAI aims to put KFX into service by 2026, so in 9 years. KFX is being developed by KAI, assisted by the ADD, the Korean DARPA equivilant, KARI, Lockheed Martin as TAC, various other foreign companies like ELTA who will assist Hanhwa Thales to develop the AESA radar, GE to license Hanhwa Techwin to produce F414 and transfer the technologies, MECAER to assist Hanhwa developing the landing gear, and so on.

    Based on information from Last year on November, current design is C106 and the final design will be C109 which will appear by May the 2018. Unlike F-35, KF-X doesn't carry a built-in internal targeting pod even in Block. 3. KFX currently has a plan till Block. 3 development and can be developed further on. Unlike Eurofighter or F-35, KF-X will already have every capability by Block. 1. Block. 2 and Block. 3 are only the certification process, so the mass production block will be Block. 3. Thus initially the quantity Indonesian air force, Korea's partner in KF-X development, planned to introduce was only around 50 ~ 60 though due to vast air space and sea Indonesian air force has to cover, it is expected for Indonesia to buy more IF-X (Indonesian version of KF-X)
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  21. #51
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    KF-X C103 model

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    plan for the selection of standard design. There were originally 3 different kinds of standard design candidates, which were :
    1.) remodeling of existing 4.5 gen aircraft
    F-16 proposed by Lockheed Martin
    F-18 proposed by Boeing
    Eurofighter proposed by EADS
    2.) remodeling of FA-50 proposed by KAI, the so-called KFX-E or KF-X model C501, a single engine design
    3.) whole new design. So C10X or C20X family

    this got reduced to either C103 based or C501 based. At the end, C103 was selected. C501 was too small.

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    An initial development concept of KF-X. Block. 1 was going to be a semi-stealth 4.5 gen fighter. Then the Block. 2, an aircraft with an early stealth fixed-wing aircraft equivalent radar signature and integrated software. Last but not least, the Block .3, a fully 5th gen fighter, which ADD didn't even had a grasp on what they should've done to make it 5th gen. (Well, hopefully KARI and KAI thus ETRI did)

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    KF-X initial design history before C104

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    Transition period development concept of KF-X in late 2015 ~ early 2016. This got changed to the current development concept that I've explained in the above post.

  22. #52
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    Plasma application on KF-X

    k, now comes the interesting part and thus the sole motivation that made me start this thread : the plasma stealth and flow control with help of plasma.

    First, I will introduce u guys about a recent groundbreaking result of ADD's R&D on plasma, which is, a flexible electrode and its application, a Wearable Plasma Fabric - its always something wearable or elastic these days ヾ(´∀`○)ノ - or a WAPP(Wearable Atmospheric Pressure Plasma) fabric, which is a gas supplier independent system, therefore doesn't needs a gas supplier to supply Argon or Helium unlike the legacy plasma producing electrodes in order to create plasma.

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    As you can see here, the electrode necessary to create a plasma from the atmosphere is in a flexible fabric form.
    Until now, it was seen impossible to create a 3 dimensional electrode but only a simple shaped flat-surfaced ones.

    Anyways, there are are various possible application of this WAPP such like wearable plasma anti NBC protective suit or detoxification blanket against hydro-soluble chemical weapons and so on.

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    fig.2) dissection of plasma blanket - abstract from "100 new major patents of ADD ver. 2016"

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    fig.3) weaving of WAPP and fig.4) possible applications - abstract from "100 new major patents of ADD ver. 2016"

    Now, plasma, apart from its various useful characteristics, also acts like a very effective RAM, absorbing electromagnetic waves of an incomparable bandwidths/wavelengths with even higher energy. Applied on an aircraft, one may achieve a lower radar signature even compared to those 5th gen design without current aerodynamic-unfriendly stealth profiles but in a rather conventional and "more aerodynamic" 4th gen form.
    Apart from plasma stealth, it is also known able to control the flow of a fluid through use of plasma, which means an unstable and unwanted flow of air caused by IWB or any other compartments of the aircraft can also be controlled by the plasma created by WAPP, stabilizing the flow and more over, improving the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft without major structural change.

    For now, the plasma stealth technology will only be applied on vital parts for decreasing the RCS, such like IWB of the KFX.

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    abstract from "core technology priority planning for national defense (ver. 2017)". part in red box reads : IWB RCS reduction technology through use of plasma"


    "Study of Aerodynamic Drag Reduction Using Plasm Flow Control" - 2012


    "Flow Actuation by Plasma Actuator With Different DC Discharges" - 2015

    Well, above studies doesn't emphasize the usage of WAPP due to the fact that those have been written before WAPP was revealed, though there are already research programs going on such like "flow control system using 3 dimensional surface discharge"

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    (click to enlarge)

    In page 48, it states that WAPP can create plasma state oxygen and nitrogen. fig.1) shows the legacy atmospheric pressure plasma generator and its application, namely : [(dielectric barrier discharge and downstream processing), (Corona discharge and In-Situ processing of wafers), (plasma torch and In-Situ processing of textiles) and (atmospheric pressure plasma jet and medical sterilization & decontamination)]. As one may see, those legacy APP generators are not suitable for aircraft application and like what I said on the top, needs a gas supplier to supply necessary gases like Argon or Helium in order to create plasma.

    In page 49 part 3, it states that WAPP's TRL will reach level 5 by September this year, so there are long way to go for WAPP to reach TRL-9 but KFX still needs around 8 years to get fully developed so time-wise, there ain't no problem regarding it. In part 4 are the listed further R&D programs and the possible application.

    Its been applied for a international patent in the US and Germany so if you have interest on it, you may search for it few months later when it gets registered as a PCT patent.

    Overall, unlike shady plasma stealth technology of PAK-FA which is still in the dark in the ocean of rumors, ADD has revealed quite a lot of information regarding the plasma stealth technology using WAPP which is to be applied on KFX. I guess DAPA may use this as a jack on their hands to get more out of the US like sensor fusion technologies as an offset for exchanging technologies. Well, that's what Japan did in the 20th century developing FS-X or F-2 so why not Korea?

    P.S - I've posted this also on the other forum and copied it here so if you find this post somewhere else, that'ss probably written by me.
    Last edited by Maro.Kyo; 9th March 2017 at 09:35.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maro.Kyo View Post
    k, now comes the interesting part and thus the sole motivation that made me start this thread : the plasma stealth and flow control with help of plasma.

    First, I will introduce u guys about a recent groundbreaking result of ADD's R&D on plasma, which is, a flexible electrode and its application, a Wearable Plasma Fabric - its always something wearable or elastic these days ヾ(´∀`○)ノ - or a WAPP(Wearable Atmospheric Pressure Plasma) fabric, which is a gas supplier independent system, therefore doesn't needs a gas supplier to supply Argon or Helium unlike the legacy plasma producing electrodes in order to create plasma.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As you can see here, the electrode necessary to create a plasma from the atmosphere is in a flexible fabric form.
    Until now, it was seen impossible to create a 3 dimensional electrode but only a simple shaped flat-surfaced ones.

    Anyways, there are are various possible application of this WAPP such like wearable plasma anti NBC protective suit or detoxification blanket against hydro-soluble chemical weapons and so on.

    [attachment=1]1487084918.jpg[/attachment]
    fig.2) dissection of plasma blanket - abstract from "100 new major patents of ADD ver. 2016"

    [attachment=0]1486907809 (1).jpg[/attachment]
    fig.3) weaving of WAPP and fig.4) possible applications - abstract from "100 new major patents of ADD ver. 2016"

    Now, plasma, apart from its various useful characteristics, also acts like a very effective RAM, absorbing electromagnetic waves of an incomparable bandwidths/wavelengths with even higher energy. Applied on an aircraft, one may achieve a lower radar signature even compared to those 5th gen design without current aerodynamic-unfriendly stealth profiles but in a rather conventional and "more aerodynamic" 4th gen form.
    Apart from plasma stealth, it is also known able to control the flow of a fluid through use of plasma, which means an unstable and unwanted flow of air caused by IWB or any other compartments of the aircraft can also be controlled by the plasma created by WAPP, stabilizing the flow and more over, improving the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft without major structural change.

    For now, the plasma stealth technology will only be applied on vital parts for decreasing the RCS, such like IWB of the KFX.


    abstract from "core technology priority planning for national defense (ver. 2017)". part in red box reads : IWB RCS reduction technology through use of plasma"


    "Study of Aerodynamic Drag Reduction Using Plasm Flow Control" - 2012


    "Flow Actuation by Plasma Actuator With Different DC Discharges" - 2015

    Well, above studies doesn't emphasize the usage of WAPP due to the fact that those have been written before WAPP was revealed, though there are already research programs going on such like "flow control system using 3 dimensional surface discharge"

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    In page 48, it states that WAPP can create plasma state oxygen and nitrogen. fig.1) shows the legacy atmospheric pressure plasma generator and its application, namely : [(dielectric barrier discharge and downstream processing), (Corona discharge and In-Situ processing of wafers), (plasma torch and In-Situ processing of textiles) and (atmospheric pressure plasma jet and medical sterilization & decontamination)]. As one may see, those legacy APP generators are not suitable for aircraft application and like what I said on the top, needs a gas supplier to supply necessary gases like Argon or Helium in order to create plasma.

    In page 49 part 3, it states that WAPP's TRL will reach level 5 by September this year, so there are long way to go for WAPP to reach TRL-9 but KFX still needs around 8 years to get fully developed so time-wise, there ain't no problem regarding it. In part 4 are the listed further R&D programs and the possible application.

    Its been applied for a international patent in the US and Germany so if you have interest on it, you may search for it few months later when it gets registered as a PCT patent.

    Overall, unlike shady plasma stealth technology of PAK-FA which is still in the dark in the ocean of rumors, ADD has revealed quite a lot of information regarding the plasma stealth technology using WAPP which is to be applied on KFX. I guess DAPA may use this as a jack on their hands to get more out of the US like sensor fusion technologies as an offset for exchanging technologies. Well, that's what Japan did in the 20th century developing FS-X or F-2 so why not Korea?

    P.S - I've posted this also on the other forum and copied it here so if you find this post somewhere else, that'ss probably written by me.
    Nice, but shouldn't it be on a different dedicated topic?

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post


    I do wonder about the choice of Lockheed Martin as foreign partner when it comes to building what amounts to direct competitor to LM's own F-35.

    Also, I wonder if Japan's recent ATD-X rollout had anything to do with the decision in favour of the more ambitious twin-engine design.
    Just when projects like this look like they are being mothballed, they pop up again. Korea, Japan, Turkey and the UAE project are all putting the squeeze on F 35 production numbers.

    I think Pierre Sprey is going to be right. There won't be more than 500 F-35's built.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Just as F-35 was designed around the United States' unique requirements, KF-X is evidently being designed first-and-foremost around Korea's requirements with export a secondary consideration, and this could well be a wise decision: the export market ain't what it used to be, and most of it will have been gobbled up by F-35 or Gripen E before KF-X could take the stage regardless of configuration.
    What is Korea's unique requirement ?

    These are all make-work projects. Military Keynesianism at its worst.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    The point is to build your own aircraft for both economic and strategic reasons, obviously.
    This will be a bottomless money pit and a drain on the tax payer and treasury. And since they are starting from rock bottom with a clean slate design, it will become a political scandal and a national embarrassment just like the F 35 is. Cost overruns, unforeseen problems ect.

    There is no economic reason to do this

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
    eurojet is nice, but flakey. look at the eurofighter program and promises all around about its potential but implementation taking forever.
    best korea stick to american
    Or maybe buy into the Russ/UAE program.

  28. #58
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    Thank you Maro.Kyo. The KFX is IMOHO one of the most promising concept of all the non US/EU 5th Gen stealth aircraft and certainly a solid footstep toward the non-us market dominance.

    An actuator in aerodynamics generally refers to a meaning that prevents the development of vorticity in a stream flow. Several techniques exist today (and since long) with usage tailored for each particular domain of flight (Re number) and level of sophistication. Pulse sound waves is one of them for the slow speed domain. Generating pulsed perpendicular current in an ionized flow is another. The generation of plasma is for this usage in a domain filled with gas (airflow) but can also be applied in water. It is of no importance where the Plasma comes from as in certain domain of flight, the electrostatic charges can be sufficient in the airflow or generated. IMOHO, you don't have to focus so much on how the Plasma can be stored to generate enough gas for this application. A fighter plane displace a great amount of air, hence static charges that only require to be perturbed given that you can safely generate the necessary amount of electrical power.

    Third stream will bring some advantage here for example.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 9th March 2017 at 05:41.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    Just when projects like this look like they are being mothballed, they pop up again. Korea, Japan, Turkey and the UAE project are all putting the squeeze on F 35 production numbers.

    I think Pierre Sprey is going to be right. There won't be more than 500 F-35's built.
    I don't know when Pierre Sprey made this prediction but with Israel, Japan and a number of European countries having opted for F-35, I see his prediction more or less as an impossibility. Trump would have to cancel F-35 for less than 500 to be built. Even then LM could switch all production to supplying non-US customers. With 200+ already delivered the non-US orders would take F-35 production way past 500 units.
    Sum ergo cogito

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    What is Korea's unique requirement ?

    These are all make-work projects. Military Keynesianism at its worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by KGB View Post
    This will be a bottomless money pit and a drain on the tax payer and treasury. And since they are starting from rock bottom with a clean slate design, it will become a political scandal and a national embarrassment just like the F 35 is. Cost overruns, unforeseen problems ect.

    There is no economic reason to do this
    Improve indigenous technology and industry, create a plane with total in-country maintenance and support and one with a free hand to modify and integrate weapons.

    Keep in mind there have been various feasibility studies done with just as negative an outlook so Korea didn't decide to go ahead while ignorant of the downsides.

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