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Thread: Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

  1. #121
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    No, sorry, that is TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

    The advanced materials used in the construction of Thunderbird 1 would withstand the impact with the desert much better than a P-40, particularly around the engine cowlings! :diablo:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    WA$.

  2. #122
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    I'd question why only 4 photos and those taken outside of the aircraft at the side are so far way? I'd have taken a side on so serial would be visible. Something dodgy about the lighting too.

  3. #123
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    He is supposed to be taking more pictures so will see....
    Cheers,Peter
    "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

  4. #124
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    Well Peter this thread and buried Spits have certainly livened up the forum if nothing else!

    The first thing I did after the weekends shopping with SWMBO was log on here!
    I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
    I take something for it.

  5. #125
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    Very true there Paul..
    Cheers,Peter
    "Merlins always drip oil, when they don't....worry!"

  6. #126
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    Some recoveries where paint has not faded.
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  7. #127
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    Would the rudder and elevator fabric have perished like that in such dry conditions?

  8. #128
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    Scotavia - the level of skill required to fake that part of the rear fuselage is beyond most people. You would need to fabricate that part pretty much full size to generate anything that you could model from. That would cost a lot of time and money -not worthwhile for a hoax.

    It should be pointed out that other aircraft have been found in the desert long after you would expect them to be gone -the likes of the SAAB B17 fuselage springs to mind.

  9. #129
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    Dobbins -you would have Irish linen so bear in mind that it coated with silver dope to protect it from the sun. That protection wouldnt last sixty plus years then add the sandblasting effect and its pretty much what you would expect.

  10. #130
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    Why all the speculation regarding the canopy position? Nothing can be inferred from the position of the canopy or any other switches or controls in the cockpit. How many people have visited this site in the past 70 years? We don't know. What if the pilot bailed out and the aircraft came down empty and then came to an abrupt halt after digging in to the sand and rocks. That could slam a canopy shut couldn't it? Canopy position and switch positions are meaningless in this context. There are still many aircraft lying in the deserts that have been seen by only a few humans, but are still in such remote locations that they haven't been stripped for parts and sheet metal. (But you might take away a small item like a clock.)

    Likewise aircraft position and the debris field doesn't tell us anything about the validity of the pictures because we don't know what has been moved, removed, vandalized, or even staged.

    The pictures are still yielding some good clues but I'd stick to environment, metallurgy, markings, equipment set, impact damage, witness marks, etc. At least some things can be gleaned from those areas, unlike all this uninformed speculation about an event that no one witnessed nearly 70 years ago.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Burke View Post
    Scotavia - the level of skill required to fake that part of the rear fuselage is beyond most people. You would need to fabricate that part pretty much full size to generate anything that you could model from. That would cost a lot of time and money -not worthwhile for a hoax.
    I bet this bloke could have a good stab at it:

    http://www.fightingcolors.com/relicpage.htm

  12. #132
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    If I was going to make something with that size and complexity I would do something like a lump of Spitfire fuselage and then you know you can sell it!

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbins View Post
    I bet this bloke could have a good stab at it:

    http://www.fightingcolors.com/relicpage.htm
    Hi
    That actually looks quite good
    cheers
    Jerry

  14. #134
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    Beau VI; you are a tease.

    So what is the Spitfire in the background of the Ju88 tail shot??

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Beau VI; you are a tease.

    So what is the Spitfire in the background of the Ju88 tail shot??
    Well done Bruce, I wondered how long it would take for somebody to notice!
    Question for both pictures, where and when?
    I have a lot more types to share but do not want to hijack the thread.

  16. #136
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    Hi
    Just a thought, if it is a kittyhawk I .... etc
    It would have the short nose allison engine, not the long nose, so would it still break off at the place it has supposed to in the crash photo ?
    The new shorter engine would not have the same weak point ?
    cheers
    Jerry

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Beau VI; you are a tease.

    So what is the Spitfire in the background of the Ju88 tail shot??
    You have seen this one Bruce.

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  18. #138
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    Looks like a Kittyhawk III (P-40M) doesn't it? It appears to have 6 guns in the wings. The RAF had nearly 600 of these.

  19. #139
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    Having edited thousands of photos in photoshop, built models & faffed about with CGI I reckon the photos are real. However I've seen then on the 'net sometime ago so I wouldn't like to guess when they were taken.

    I have seen a picture of the Italian SM79 in the desert before it was recovered & it was reminiscent of these P40 pictures.

    Most of the fabric had gone, which makes up a fair portion of the fuselage, though the visible metal surfaces appeared bare after probably having been given a good grit blasting with sand.

    WRT the clock missing, if it is a wind up one, could it have been removed as a navigational aid ? i.e. time of day & sun position giving an idea of where north is in the event of the pilot having no functioning compass & deciding to walk back to friendly lines. He probably wouldn't fancy doing it in the middle of the day.
    It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

  20. #140
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    P40E

    Hi D C Page

    more likely Kittyhawk IA (P40E) which also had 6 guns. The roundal style is correct for the period they become operational. Early 1942.

    The Kittyhawk III had a later style roundal.

    http://www.acesofww2.com/Canada/aces/edwards.htm

    Second photo is Kittyhawk III's in late 1942.

    regards

    MS

  21. #141
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    Here is a link with some pics for comparison.

    http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...-Desert-Wrecks
    It's the one you don't see that gets you (usually)...

  22. #142
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    Thanks shepsair!

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark12 View Post
    You have seen this one Bruce.

    Mark
    Yes, I know which one it is now - tail only recovered from Russia; dates about 1998/9


    Bruce

  24. #144
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    Thumbs up Should Have Gone To Specsavers.......!

    I wouldn't like to comment on when those photos were taken, but I find the huge number of daft comments surprising. It's obvious they are real -Blindingly so. Argh..

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty01 View Post
    Here is a link with some pics for comparison.

    http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...-Desert-Wrecks
    Most of those look far more convincing... Just found some similar P-40 crash photos, the props are still attached but the tops of the cowlings aren't.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...frica_1942.jpg

    http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/crashed_el_alamien.jpg

  26. #146
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    How likely is it that an intact aircraft in that environment would not have been seen before now?

    Yes, the Sahara is big, but THAT big?
    It's been a half century since the "Lady be Good" was found.
    I don't think there are many surprises left to be found in the desert.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  27. #147
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    Actually, the Dove looks eerily similar to the P40; paint blasted off in a similar way for a start.

  28. #148
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    FAKE OR REAL?? you tell me
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    (aviation archaeology)

    ITS NOT HOW BIG YOUR LENSE IS, ITS WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH IT THAT COUNTS

  29. #149
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    My money is still on first three 100% fakes....the last ones, definitely not!

    Anyway, I'm just off to do me some digging at Piltdown. Man, you wouldn't believe what some people fake!
    Editor: 'Britain at War' Magazine

    A 'Key Publishing' product - Britain's Best Selling Military History Monthly

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmere1940 View Post
    Anyway, I'm just off to do me some digging at Piltdown. Man, you wouldn't believe what some people fake!
    I hope you'll take a copy of Hitler's diaries with you as reading material whilst you're away.

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