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Thread: Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

  1. #1
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    Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

    Hello

    Look what I found on polish modelers forum
    http://www.konradus.com/forum/read.p...filtr=0&page=1

    There is no information where directly is this plane, only that they found this on Sahara, and RAF was asked for identification.

  2. #2
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    Well if it is not a model, it is a remarkable image.

    So what date could this image be I wonder?

    Mark
    "...the story had been forensically examined and was deeply impressive. I knew that the whole story was a load of myth and baloney…"

  3. #3
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    very surprised the scrapman hasn't got it like the Blenheim I asked about on here a few years ago

  4. #4
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    The quality of the fourth picture down suggests to me a recent digital image. It's a shame the photographer didn't take ( or at least display) a shot of the serial! Presumably P-40s with genuine RAF provenance are pretty rare? This one looks in superb condition considering the time elapsed since 1941-2. Ripe for recovery?
    Armchair enthusiast, but also a fan of sofas and recliners.

  5. #5
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    Maybe if they dig around they'll find 19 more...

  6. #6
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    If that's a model diorama, he certainly has all the details right, including little things like the ball in the turn-and-bank being positioned correctly for the airplane's tilt. Which is unusual: modelers have been known to make stunningly realistic models with both ailerons deflected down, or the stick in the cockpit hard left and the ailerons deflected for a right bank. (I'm a modeler, though also a pilot...)

  7. #7
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    ooohh, now that I like!!!!

  8. #8
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    Blooming hell you can't move for rediscovered fighters at the moment. My wife is doing a bit of digging down the bottom of the garden. I hopes she is careful poking around that 109 while putting the clematis in.

    My thoughts are it is not photoshopped but if it is its a damned clever one.
    I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
    I take something for it.

  9. #9
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    I'm going to call fake on this one but I would love to be proven wrong. There is something about the first three shots that just don't look 100% real to me. The other two may or may not be fake and could be of a different aircraft entirely. Granted, the whole thing would make for a very complex and time consuming fake for reasons I can't fathom but I just have a gut feeling that it isn't real. (For one thing the starboard leading edge is in impeccable condition for an aircraft that was belly landed amongst some very uninviting looking terra firma.) My .02 cents.

  10. #10
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    I am going to go out on a limb and say it looks real to me, especially the last 2 photos, there is a lot of detail that I think would be hard to replicate.

    Chad Veich - there is a possibility that the rocks were covered in sand when the aircraft landed and the sand has since been blown away.

    Can't wait to see how this develops, it seems far more interesting to me than 20 Spits, at least here there are some photos (real or not).

    Paul

    Edit to add, if it is real and is recovered it would be a shame to restore it, looks fantastic just how it is.
    Facebook: Aussie Cockpits

  11. #11
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    Funny, Photoshop never occurred to me. As a modeler, I immediately thought diorama, because truly skilled modelers can make something that looks exactly like that out of stuff they find in the garden and the kitchen and from model-maker suppliers. I'm with Veich, though; there's something about those photos that puts me in mind of what NASA might have published to disprove conspiracy theories about the moon landing actually having been accomplished on a sound stage in Burbank.

    Still, that perfect turn-and-bank...

  12. #12
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    In the second and third photo there are some fairly distinctive clouds which change their position relative to the aircraft just like they really would if you took a photo in a different direction.

    I have taken some photos in the desert here in Australia and find my basic digital camera can often be overwhelmed and washed out by the sheer amount of light coming at it which is also similar to those photos.

    Paul
    Facebook: Aussie Cockpits

  13. #13
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    I'd say that's very real, not a model. I've seen models that you couldn't tell were models from their photographs, but that instrument panel is not one of those. Blow it up and take a good close look at the details and use period pictures from the manuals for comparison. Real deal. The pictures were taken with a modern digital but the EXIF data has been stripped, so no location clues there.

    Here is what the OP said:

    "My friend works in the Sahara looking for oil and gas. Recently, however, they came upon something completely different"

    "The plane lay so many years is not bothered by anyone. The finder of the wreck told the RAF and were able to identify aircraft. We do not know why he was only at that particular place. It may puzzle some time find a solution."


    We know men and aircraft can lay undiscovered in the desert for very long periods. Many are swallowed up by the sands never to be seen again, some get spit back out decades later, or somebody stumbles upon them. (Remember LBG!) I'll bet this aircraft has been visited by petrol companies a few times since it crashed and I'll bet the RAF might have visited the site at least once themselves.

    Now who knows the serial?


    PS: Here's a really interesting story of another record attempt that ended badly for the pilot, discovered 29 years after he came down in the middle of nowhere and simply dried out.

    http://www.historynet.com/bill-lanca...eed-record.htm

  14. #14
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    Thumbs up They Look Gen'.

    Those photos look 100% genuine to me. Parts of the Sahara are extremely dry. I was out there in the 1970's, and there were various old vehicles from the war. There are no dunes in the photos, but in those areas where there are dunes, anything left will soon get covered with sand as the Erg moves. Much of it is not the classic sand dunes however, such as the rough rocky area in the photos and the mixed sand and gravel area where Bill Lancaster came down. Some is very rocky and rugged. It's remote, huge, hot and dry. Not the sort of place where you wander around just on the offchance of finding things.....:diablo:
    Not the ideal sort of place for a forced landing.....let's hope the pilot made it home.

    I hope they bring this one back pronto, at least it's real and not corroded to hell.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozjag View Post
    Chad Veich - there is a possibility that the rocks were covered in sand when the aircraft landed and the sand has since been blown away.
    To quote my grandfather who spent some time out there subduing the natives* pre-WWII. "You'd pitch your tent between 2 sand dunes & by the time you got up in the morning, the sand had moved so much you'd be on top of a sand dune"


    * not the word he used...
    If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: It's all balls. RJM.

  16. #16
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    If it is a diorama then it is a brilliant one ... the first two photos at least do look a little model-ish ...
    Martin

  17. #17
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    The terrain looks about right for the Libyan Sahara....
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!

  18. #18
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    Finally all that money on the Mars Rover has finally paid off, just how did it get up there?

  19. #19
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    Photos

    Pics 1-3 - Model! No heat haze or fading of colours into the distant horizon.

    Pics 4 and 5 presumably also, although 4 certainly looks like bent a/c metalwork.

  20. #20
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    Well if it is a model then the level of detail is first class , and yes the first couple of pics do look like a model .
    If it is real i'm sure we'll hear about it soon and someone will recover it.
    Then before you know it people will be asking if it will appear at flying legends next year in formation with the burmese spitfires !

  21. #21
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    Translation via Google

    Posting 1
    Heading 1

    My friend works in the Sahara looking for oil and gas. Recently, however, they came upon something completely different ...

    Heading 2
    The plane lay so many years is not bothered by anyone. The finder of the wreck told the RAF and were able to identify aircraft. We do not know why he was only at that particular place. It may puzzle some time find a solution.

    Posting 2
    No good trinket.

    Posting 3
    It's like I Curtiss P-40 "Kittyhawk" / or "Tomahawk" / - had them equipped squadrons in the RAF in 1943 Zach.Afryce

    Posting 4
    It's a shame that there are no pictures of the side - then the markings on the hull lterowych might be tempted to decipher the individual.

    Posting 5
    Give us, in a workshop wyklepia and will even fly

    Okay, jokes aside, but it's really interesting thing. I remember as a few-dozen years ago I read about a bomber ... I already found http://www.ladybegood.net/index.htm

    Posting 6
    Well as our wyklepali it would still be two F-16 came out and a piece of Hercules ...

    Posting 7
    Massacre! Please send me more information and additional photos :-)

    put through Google translate, I can't see any clues here.... thoughts
    Pedantic I haven't been that for 4 minutes 36 secs
    http://www.arc-design-it.co.uk

  22. #22
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    The cockpit shot and close up of the radio hatch surely can't be a model. The detail is perfect even down to correct screws. Fetch me my sun cream and Panama hat.

  23. #23
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    Just to give a bit of Credence to the photo's. The last one cockpit photo shows that only the clock has been removed (and what ever is in the top left of the instrument panel), this was common practice when leaving force landed aircraft, the germans often removed the compasses too. I think you would have to be a very diligent modeler to get that detail correct!
    I wonder what will become of it if it has not already been vandalised by now

  24. #24
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    I was in Libya in 1960/61 and there was a strong rumour that an italian aircraft had been found and nearby was an 'American fighter bomber' which had damaged each other.
    The Italian later was found to be a SM79 in quite intact condition( I believe the one in the photos shown by Massimo on Hyperscale) but I recall hearing no other info ref the 'fighter bomber'.
    When the P40 crashed, the area could have been totally sandy and the wreck covered and revealed many times over the years. As a modeller I think this is real but I would have expected this to be top news if the RAF have been asked for an ID and if the photos are recent and not digital copies.

    John

  25. #25
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    As others have said there is something wrong with the pictures.The close up of the roundal area for me is a little odd.The structure appears right but the paint work is in a condition i would not expect.Also surely the cockpit would have more sand in it if the canopy was left open for 70 odd years.Somebody prove me wrong!

  26. #26
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    Looks like a model to me.

    DD

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by spit1940 View Post
    As others have said there is something wrong with the pictures.The close up of the roundal area for me is a little odd.The structure appears right but the paint work is in a condition i would not expect.Also surely the cockpit would have more sand in it if the canopy was left open for 70 odd years.Somebody prove me wrong!
    The detail around the hatch in my mind is so accurate and reminds me of the P-40 recovered from Russia by TFC. Note angle of shadow of door and compare angle of sun in other shots.
    On the aircraft recovered from Russia one side of the fuselage was very bleached but the other clearly showed markings, even pencil marks on the hatch.
    Yes you do get sunshine in Russia and extremes of temperature.

  28. #28
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    No - one here got a background in P.I. then??

    It's real.

    Regards,
    Frank

  29. #29
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    Looks real to me

  30. #30
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    I do agree that the first two shots were slightly suspect looking - but the detailed shots - I am convinced its real too, an extraordinary discovery...
    www.warbirdcolour.co.uk

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