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Thread: Future Light Attack - Textron Scorpion

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sintra View Post
    VTOL, speed, altitude and ... Lasers...


    While we are at it, might has well throw in stealth and have a development program for a decade and a half and 20 billions of development budget. And i want sixteen MK41 VLS on the wings, that new 130 mm gun from Rheinmetal and Choban armour!

    Capability creep at Key Publishing?

    I´ll get me coat...
    What we said here is not really relevant with what will end to be the program but just to be clear we can see a divergence in the program that could be addressed by splitting it into different system phased in time (instead of a raw order of 300 identical planes).
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 3rd March 2017 at 00:05.

  2. #122
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    From AWS17 Courtesy Lara Seligman

    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  3. #123
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    It would be good it it had the ability to see through folliage.

  4. #124
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    With cannons in the internal bay the Scorpion would be a good low level defence fighter and would be able to defend itself well after dropping ordinance in an attack mission. You cant compare the Scorpion with turboprop attack a/c like the Tucano and PC-9 as the 300kt speed of these a/c are completely ineffective against jet fighters. Remember than all a/c are subsonic at low level so that the Scorpion is as fast as any fighter for low level defence.

  5. #125
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    I guess this is the target:

    (source https://www.usni.org)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    I guess this is the target:

    (source https://www.usni.org)
    or this
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    Last edited by arquebus; 5th March 2017 at 02:29.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by arquebus View Post
    or this
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Who was it that said, "America First"? So any foreign candidates are almost certainly off the table, however good they might be.

  8. #128
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    Scorpion in that camo scheme is the winner then.

  9. #129
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    Has anyone seen any confirmation that the Bronco could be put back into production? How many (if any) are in storage at AMARC?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrmalaya View Post
    Scorpion in that camo scheme is the winner then.
    A two tone on top (for the time on tarmac) and an underbelly grey will do for me. I am bored by all this tactical grey/tactical black etc...

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomcatViP View Post
    A two tone on top (for the time on tarmac) and an underbelly grey will do for me. I am bored by all this tactical grey/tactical black etc...
    If purchased these would be operated by the USAF.... don't expect any crowd pleasing paint schemes.

  12. #132
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    lol. Obviouly. But this...

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    is really pleasing
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 5th March 2017 at 22:52.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopsalot View Post
    If purchased these would be operated by the USAF.... don't expect any crowd pleasing paint schemes.
    Expect something like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/s...-capabilities/
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by andys View Post
    Has anyone seen any confirmation that the Bronco could be put back into production? How many (if any) are in storage at AMARC?
    Bronco will never come back. It was a test only with the two Broncos in Iraq, to confirm the idea.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by xena View Post
    Bronco will never come back. It was a test only with the two Broncos in Iraq, to confirm the idea.
    To confirm the idea is feasible yet reject it anyway? The Bronco seems just as viable as the Super Tucano for such a role.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by xena View Post
    Bronco will never come back. It was a test only with the two Broncos in Iraq, to confirm the idea.
    Perhaps that

    [Speaking about the Scorpion] The jet’s ability to fire precision-guided munitions while maintaining low levels of noise could make it a better choice for urban close-air support than loud, less advanced turboprop planes, [Textron AirLand’s vice president of Scorpion sales] Harris said.
    Source (Defense News.com):
    Textron sets its sights on US Air Force's light aircraft experiment

    A dual buy of airframe is discussed in here and Textron is well placed having two complementary products already.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 15th March 2017 at 21:27.

  17. #137
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    Just out of curiosity, I wonder if the Bronco tooling still exists?
    The former NAA (and Curtiss during WWII) factory still exists, last I heard it warehouses bureaucrats doing paper work.

    Since the 70s, it has been US policy to retain tooling, I recall seing the B-1 tools in storage at Davis-Monthan.

    At any rate, the AT-6 sounds like a useful aircraft for low intensity situations, I flew one several years ago and was very impressed by its performance.

    However, to make a REALLY low cost (no crew to lose), could a attack aircraft of this type be unmanned?

    I also read that the USAF is considering using NCO drone operators as opposed to the current commissioned officer corps, reducing costs even more. Imagine, giving a recent high school graduate the ultimate video game system.
    Last edited by J Boyle; 15th March 2017 at 21:39.
    There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

  18. #138
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    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  19. #139
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    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

  20. #140
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    US Air Force completes first round of light attack aircraft demo

    It was notably hinted that the Scorpion could also fulfill a Tanker role for aircraft or unmanned vehicles.

    Textron spokeswoman Sylvia Pierson also noted that its Scorpion jet has the payload and ground clearance necessary to use it for tanking missions. However, “we have not yet received any customer requirements to integrate and demonstrate this capability,” she said.
    Source:
    DefenseNews.com

  21. #141
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    The whole point of a light attack aircraft is to simplify things and have something less expensive to store, maintain and fly. Sure this Scorpion thing is cool looking and probably goes like hell. But thats not the point.

    Watch the Scorpion win. Then we will read about cost overruns, technical issues and pilot training issues.

  22. #142
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    Light attack isn't for USAF use. It is for countries such as Philippines, Afghanistan and Iraq which need COIN aircraft. USAF will continue to use Reaper in the COIN role.

  23. #143
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    The whole point of a light attack aircraft is to simplify things and have something less expensive to store, maintain and fly. Sure this Scorpion thing is cool looking and probably goes like hell. But thats not the point.

    Watch the Scorpion win. Then we will read about cost overruns, technical issues and pilot training issues.
    Yeah, & then we'd also see what happens with these tanker proposals & the like. I'm waiting for it to be proposed for maritime patrol, AEW & transport.
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
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  24. #144
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    Remember than all a/c are subsonic at low level so that the Scorpion is as fast as any fighter for low level defence.
    Perhaps the Scorpion's potential opposition is a bit behind the times and only has MiG-21bis: good for 730 knots at sea level, transonic.

    Step it up a generation: a tankless MiG-29 can do 810 knots at sea level, an F-16C isn't far behind. Both random examples and both supersonic.

    Now none of those will be doing those speeds as routine, and certainly not with ordnance, but a Scorpion realy doesn't have the potential to intercept any competently-flown fighter without fluking the interception.
    Last edited by Cherry Ripe; 11th September 2017 at 08:11.

  25. #145
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    how about looking at what is actually engaging in combat right now; Alpha Jets in Nigeria; OV-10s and SF 260s and S211s in the Phillipines, L39s in Syria...most of these are ancient and will be phased out due to airframe lives being used up, so some operators will either want more of the same, which won't happen, or will queue up to hand Cessna money for this Scorpion. Also, countries like France are running out of usable Alpha Jets and will need a NG trainer.

  26. #146
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    More than training, it's crew proficiency. You can use the Scorpion for long haul navigation flight and still have it carrying an ISR payload or does some maritime surveillance for example. At that cost per flight hours, it brings freedom in planning to the point that flight hours can be locally tailored to real needs without having to suffer from a centralized scrutiny.

    If 5th gen brings new capabilities to air force, Scorpion will provide local leverage.

  27. #147
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    how about looking at what is actually engaging in combat right now; Alpha Jets in Nigeria; OV-10s and SF 260s and S211s in the Phillipines, L39s in Syria...most of these are ancient and will be phased out due to airframe lives being used up, so some operators will either want more of the same, which won't happen, or will queue up to hand Cessna money for this Scorpion
    "Wont happen"?!

    http://www.philstar.com/headlines/20...-more-aircraft
    https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017...le-to-nigeria/

    Embraer has been delivering armed versions of the Tucano and Super Tucano since the late eighties to an awfull lot of operators, those aircrafts have been used in anger in South America, Africa, Midle East and Asia. The light attack/COIN mission has become an almost Embraer monopoly, and unlees the USAF buys the Scorpion i am not seeing Cessna threatning Super Tucano sales.

    Also, countries like France are running out of usable Alpha Jets and will need a NG trainer.
    Yep, and they wont choose anything looking remotely like the Scorpion. The US contestant for the advanced trainer market will be whatever comes out of "TX".
    Last edited by Sintra; 13th September 2017 at 18:24.

  28. #148
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    When I say won't happen, it's because there are no more new airframes of those types and even the S211s are being sold to private citizens in the USA, good L39s are getting scarce so the A29 will prevail, and more luck to it!

  29. #149
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    Dirt strip T.O and landings

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