Key.Aero Network
Register Free

Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 333

Thread: Are We Slowly Slipping Into World War?

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Ukraine is an independent country and its sovereignty should be respected just as much as ours is.
    No. Wait. Was. Ukraine was a free country, and now its not and Putin can just sit back and ignore the world.

    Of course, all the other former Soviet states should have a little quake about how and when they will be reintegrated...

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    No. Wait. Was. Ukraine was a free country, and now its not and Putin can just sit back and ignore the world.

    Of course, all the other former Soviet states should have a little quake about how and when they will be reintegrated...
    I said independent, not free. Anyway I'm not altogether understanding of the word 'free' in this context. It can be made to mean whatever you want it to mean.

    The current, interim, government of the Ukraine quite obviously wishes to associate itself with Western Europe and the EU. If it does so it will have to adopt the concept of the rule of law (something which the ousted government didn't believe in), free elections (ditto) and human rights (also ditto). I'm sure it already understands this and I'm equally sure that Putin understands it too, which is one reason for the invasion. He doesn't want ethnic Russians living in such an environment. Putin is a dictator operating within a pseudo democratic system, the Ukraine's revolution sets an example for CIS citizens which he doesn't want followed.

    Regards
    David Mylchreest
    Steam and Model Railway videos http://www.youtube.com/user/PenrithBeacon
    Aviation videos http://www.youtube.com/user/austerfive

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    I really don't see how Ukraine can continue as a unified country - especially now. When a democratically elected president (although corrupt) can be overthrown because half the population don't like his politics then the same crisis will arise every few years. It seems to make sense that Ukraine reverts to its historical division with the west facing west as when it was part of Poland/Prussia and the east facing east when it was part of the Ruslands.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    virginia beach,VA.
    Posts
    770
    I'm thinking that Russia is going to go in and finish off Ukrain in the next couple of months. Now......assuming that pretty much everyone here would have said , a month ago, Russia will not annex the Crimea, should the Baltic States (Estonia, Lith. and Latvia) be edgy?

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    No, not the remotest likelihood. I cannot think of single parallel between the Crimea and any of the Baltic States. Nor could you if you thought about it for a minute.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    cambridge uk
    Posts
    6,460
    Quote Originally Posted by 19kilo10 View Post
    I'm thinking that Russia is going to go in and finish off Ukrain in the next couple of months. Now......assuming that pretty much everyone here would have said , a month ago, Russia will not annex the Crimea, should the Baltic States (Estonia, Lith. and Latvia) be edgy?
    I don't think they will do that BUT it will be played like a game of chess,the power will be made by restrictions,financial,strategic,access and of course propaganda.Putting your people in places of power,all smoke and mirrors to get a result that will "allow" all sides to maintain "face".

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    virginia beach,VA.
    Posts
    770
    Quote Originally Posted by charliehunt View Post
    No, not the remotest likelihood. I cannot think of single parallel between the Crimea and any of the Baltic States. Nor could you if you thought about it for a minute.
    After the events of the last couple weeks, I'm not sure of anything regarding Russia anymore.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    Ah well firstly I would suggest that what has happened is not that surprising given the even ts of the past few weeks in Ukraine, Russia's interests in Crimea and it's previous history in Georgia but secondly that there is not nor ever has been the remotest indication that Russia would attempt provocation against a member country of the EU which is outside its sphere of interest.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by 19kilo10 View Post
    I'm thinking that Russia is going to go in and finish off Ukrain in the next couple of months. Now......assuming that pretty much everyone here would have said , a month ago, Russia will not annex the Crimea, should the Baltic States (Estonia, Lith. and Latvia) be edgy?
    A month ago Russia had the Olympics and the eyes of the world watching what they might do about any potential terrorism that might occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by 19kilo10 View Post
    After the events of the last couple weeks...
    Any events in particular?

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    1,372
    Wow snafu you are being dense. It is just pure comedy reading how you guys are just rationalizing away what has happened. Mr. potent has nothing to fear from you guys. Keep your heads in the sand just like he wants.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    cambridge uk
    Posts
    6,460
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    Wow snafu you are being dense. It is just pure comedy reading how you guys are just rationalizing away what has happened. Mr. potent has nothing to fear from you guys. Keep your heads in the sand just like he wants.

    Virginia -USA ,well i guess Mr Kerry will be on the ball and the world will be protected.What do you want to happen,your guys putting boots on the ground again? Burying head in sand ,i guess decisions will be made as and when Putin shows his hand but as said earlier apart from sanctions he knows nothing else will happen.

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    Well you haven't provided any evidence of anything different so feel free.....

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    Wow snafu you are being dense.
    Gee, and I was unaware that there was any examination taking place. Thank you, just the same. Hope the comedy made you laugh...

    Can I guess that you also cannot narrow down which events 19kilo10 was referring to either? Was it the winter Olympics, which Putin obviously waited until it was over before starting his expansion policy? The Russian men's ice hockey team failing to get a medal? Maybe it was how many people in Ukraine didn't back their own premiers vision? Possibly it was the protests which both sides claim the other started, with protesters being shot dead and troops & police failing to suppress the discontent? Could it be how the Ukrainian premier ran off like a thief in the night when his own military eventually flopped and let in the protesters?

    'Mr Potent'??? Colour me confused. If you are referring to Putin it might be best for you to keep it simple and, you know, actually use a name that people actually recognise. And if you were referring to Putin then he has nothing to fear from yourself either; remember that this is just a thread on a forum - maybe your computer is sitting in a pile of sand, allowing you to make silly head-in-the-sand quips, but mine isn't.
    No, I'm not laughing.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bomber Country. Lincolnshire
    Posts
    8,403
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    Wow snafu you are being dense. It is just pure comedy reading how you guys are just rationalizing away what has happened. Mr. potent has nothing to fear from you guys. Keep your heads in the sand just like he wants.
    If keeping our heads in the sand, stops us being dragged into yet another interferring USA,conflict, then I for one, am all for it.

    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    Mr "Potent"has all the cards and the rest of us are thrashing around making a lot of noise whilst trying to hide our impotence. He knows Obama is all talk and no action not that Obama can do much anyway.
    Last edited by charliehunt; 5th March 2014 at 21:50.

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    1,372
    I agree with you about Obama. And I think the "events" 10kilo was referring to was the Russian invasion of Crimea. Sorry about the "porten" thing bit that was the autocorrect function messing up.
    In my opinion there is no reason for the Us or Europe to get involved on what is basically Russia cleaning house. But it is quite amusing to see you Europeans refusing to see reality as to what Putin is doing. Because of the Wendy's lackluster response I see Russia being emboldened to act again. If Europe wants to bury there head in the sand and pretend the bear isn't stirring then that's just fine too.
    But 19k was right about one this. Last month if anyone had stated that Russia would takeover Crimea the majority of you would have said it would never happen.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bomber Country. Lincolnshire
    Posts
    8,403
    Being ex KGB, I wouldn't put anything past Pukin.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    Hawkdriver - there I think you are wrong. Once the events in Kiev lead to the overthrow of Yanukovich it was no surprise Putin acted as he did. Crimea is strongly in Russia's sphere of interest and has physical military assets there. He could not allow them to be compromised.

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Gloucestershire
    Posts
    2,920
    Only three things to say

    1 I wish the UK would stay out of things that do not concern us and we can do nothing about.

    2 Stop waffling on about economic sanctions Baldy Haigh, we get 28% of our gas supplies from Russia and I like to stay warm!

    3 Do not let shed loads of Ukrainians into the UK on the pretext that they are fleeing oppression!

    BTW Does the Household Cavalry still have 600 men and horses to charge the Russian guns?
    I have kleptomania,But when it gets bad
    I take something for it.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,546
    Quote Originally Posted by paul178 View Post
    3 Do not let shed loads of Ukrainians into the UK on the pretext that they are fleeing oppression!
    That's what's going to happen when the Ukraine joins the EU anyway, we might as well let them all in now.

  21. #141
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    cambridge uk
    Posts
    6,460
    Quote Originally Posted by j_jza80 View Post
    That's what's going to happen when the Ukraine joins the EU anyway, we might as well let them all in now.
    Which is another point WHY THE HELL DO WE WANT THESE EASTERN COUNTRIES IN THE EU ,we are stuffed as it is.Bye Bye UK ,been nice knowing you.

  22. #142
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    In my opinion there is no reason for the Us or Europe to get involved on what is basically Russia cleaning house.
    Define 'Russia cleaning house', sorting out your error in grammar.
    Do you not agree that Ukraine is/was an independent nation with another nations military bases on its land inside its borders - a bit like Cuba? If you believe that Russia has the right to march into another country - former Soviet Block or not - where (as others have asked) does that leave the Baltic states, for example?


    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    But it is quite amusing to see you Europeans refusing to see reality as to what Putin is doing.
    Oh, and what is the reality? Or, at least, the reality that you believe you see him doing?
    What amuses me is that so much of what we understand in general depends on the bias of the news provider/s you listen to. Those countries without a generally liberal agenda are happy for their news providers to only present an angle that matches the leaderships view, or the owners are so scared of what might happen should a viewpoint contrary to theirs and the governments be presented to the masses that they become rabid predators, either consuming the weaker opposition or shouting down, making up complete lies and/or badmouthing those who even mildly disagree with them.
    Did Fox News spring right to the front of your mind just then...;o)

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    Because of the Wendy's lackluster response I see Russia being emboldened to act again. If Europe wants to bury there head in the sand and pretend the bear isn't stirring then that's just fine too.
    Whoa! Wendy's? Sorry - THE Wendy's? Stirring bear? I think I get the bear, but you really need to explain The Wendy's, or else I shall introduce the Winter Stoat or Oddfish into the conversation and carry on as though you fully understood what the hell I was on about. (Is hell a swear word to you as well? I told my US work colleagues that it is a town in Norway - which it is - and refused to contribute to the swear box. What about bitch? They used it like a term of endearment, but when I tried using it to my wife I was lucky to escape with my life!)
    Anyway, if Russia is trying to become a reunified big red state, just like it used to be, then it is going to have to upset a lot of apple carts - the peasants have tasted democracy (of a fashion) and some have become really fat on it: you won't take that away from them easily. Plus there is a generation that never knew what it was like to live under the gaze of the KGB and all that that entailed.
    Putin is just flexing his muscles (those which caught the eye of several news channels who never miss an opportunity to show him topless) and doing what Brezhnev did with Afghanistan in 1978 - his man was in power, needed a little help with an internal difficulty and please could the might of Russia come and lend a hand. Give it a few years and it might be another Russian Vietnam...


    Quote Originally Posted by hawkdriver05 View Post
    Last month if anyone had stated that Russia would takeover Crimea the majority of you would have said it would never happen.
    (Groan. Sigh. Mutter...) Just because you haven't looked back to see how many others have put something similar before him; I know I did. And you know why that bandwagon started rolling? Because those in the know knew that nothing would happen before the winter Olympics were finished! Putin wouldn't have wanted to do a damned thing (was that US swearing too?;o) before the men's ice hockey medals were sorted.

    And its no good agreeing with 19k10 about Obama without verifying your own political stance - is it because he is black, he is a black democrat, he is a democrat, or that he is a politician? I have to ask since I was working in the US when he achieved office (2008-2009) and most of those who were unhappy at him being made president were happy to admit to me that it was because of the colour of his skin - even democrats. I now cannot sit back and believe that it is just his policies (still right wing to my mind) that are what Americans are against based on my (admittedly small) sample. The British health service was one wonderful thing by a politician (I'm hard pushed to come up with another, not at this time of night), yet when a black democrat president tries to do something to help the poor and needy then the unpoor and not-needy are up in arms, even believing the lies spread about the British health service because it suits their purpose. Why not grow a pair, bubba, and remember that it is not just you in this mean old world?

    I might close now because my young and wonderfully amused 18 month old daughter has just dumped the contents of a cup into my lap instead of falling asleep. And it is cold water! Sorry if non of the above makes sense - I haven't finished editing yet!

  23. #143
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    virginia beach,VA.
    Posts
    770
    Dont bring me into this. I actually side with Russia here for the simple fact that Russian porn is VASTLY superior to Ukrainian!

  24. #144
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Posts
    1,372
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    Define 'Russia cleaning house', sorting out your error in grammar. Wow glad I don't have your nerve in my tooth.
    Do you not agree that Ukraine is/was an independent nation with another nations military bases on its land inside its borders - a bit like Cuba? If you believe that Russia has the right to march into another country - former Soviet Block or not - where (as others have asked) does that leave the Baltic states, for example?




    Oh, and what is the reality? Or, at least, the reality that you believe you see him doing?
    What amuses me is that so much of what we understand in general depends on the bias of the news provider/s you listen to. Those countries without a generally liberal agenda are happy for their news providers to only present an angle that matches the leaderships view, or the owners are so scared of what might happen should a viewpoint contrary to theirs and the governments be presented to the masses that they become rabid predators, either consuming the weaker opposition or shouting down, making up complete lies and/or badmouthing those who even mildly disagree with them.
    Did Fox News spring right to the front of your mind just then...;o)



    Whoa! Wendy's? Sorry - THE Wendy's? Stirring bear? I think I get the bear, but you really need to explain The Wendy's, or else I shall introduce the Winter Stoat or Oddfish into the conversation and carry on as though you fully understood what the hell I was on about. (Is hell a swear word to you as well? I told my US work colleagues that it is a town in Norway - which it is - and refused to contribute to the swear box. What about bitch? They used it like a term of endearment, but when I tried using it to my wife I was lucky to escape with my life!)
    Anyway, if Russia is trying to become a reunified big red state, just like it used to be, then it is going to have to upset a lot of apple carts - the peasants have tasted democracy (of a fashion) and some have become really fat on it: you won't take that away from them easily. Plus there is a generation that never knew what it was like to live under the gaze of the KGB and all that that entailed.
    Putin is just flexing his muscles (those which caught the eye of several news channels who never miss an opportunity to show him topless) and doing what Brezhnev did with Afghanistan in 1978 - his man was in power, needed a little help with an internal difficulty and please could the might of Russia come and lend a hand. Give it a few years and it might be another Russian Vietnam...




    (Groan. Sigh. Mutter...) Just because you haven't looked back to see how many others have put something similar before him; I know I did. And you know why that bandwagon started rolling? Because those in the know knew that nothing would happen before the winter Olympics were finished! Putin wouldn't have wanted to do a damned thing (was that US swearing too?;o) before the men's ice hockey medals were sorted.

    And its no good agreeing with 19k10 about Obama without verifying your own political stance - is it because he is black, he is a black democrat, he is a democrat, or that he is a politician? I have to ask since I was working in the US when he achieved office (2008-2009) and most of those who were unhappy at him being made president were happy to admit to me that it was because of the colour of his skin - even democrats. I now cannot sit back and believe that it is just his policies (still right wing to my mind) that are what Americans are against based on my (admittedly small) sample. The British health service was one wonderful thing by a politician (I'm hard pushed to come up with another, not at this time of night), yet when a black democrat president tries to do something to help the poor and needy then the unpoor and not-needy are up in arms, even believing the lies spread about the British health service because it suits their purpose. Why not grow a pair, bubba, and remember that it is not just you in this mean old world?

    I might close now because my young and wonderfully amused 18 month old daughter has just dumped the contents of a cup into my lap instead of falling asleep. And it is cold water! Sorry if non of the above makes sense - I haven't finished editing yet!
    Glad I don't have your nerve in my tooth condescending p*+€^. You can hold your breath and stamp your little feet all you want child but you know I'm right and you have made an argument whatsoever.

  25. #145
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    If you post entire quotes (frowned on by sleeping mods) don't expect your posts to be read.

  26. #146
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post

    What amuses me is that so much of what we understand in general depends on the bias of the news provider/s you listen to.
    Actually, Snafu, I think he is right and the news providers point of view is irrelevant. We can all see what is happening on the ground and we don't need a news provider to supply a back story. As a "Western" observer none of what has happened surprises me not does our flimsy response, because there is little we can do, anyway. History is not on our side in the Crimea nor Eastern Ukraine, for that matter. As I've said before let the East and South go East, where they belong and let the West go West where it belongs. History tells us it makes sense.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  27. #147
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    virginia beach,VA.
    Posts
    770
    I'm sorry I started this. Nobody can be civil here so I'm out.

  28. #148
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Within striking distance of EGMH - as was!
    Posts
    11,477
    Oh, come on, you exaggerate - incivility is the exception not the rule.
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  29. #149
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bomber Country. Lincolnshire
    Posts
    8,403
    Quote Originally Posted by charliehunt View Post
    Oh, come on, you exaggerate - incivility is the exception not the rule.
    What do you expect Chas, same ole story, THEIR way, or NO way. Guess they can dish it out, but not take it.
    Jim.
    Lincoln .7
    There is no such thing as a problem, just a solution!!

  30. #150
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East Yorks
    Posts
    1,979
    It is worth watching BBC News 24 at the moment, the interim Ukrainian President is making some good points.
    When Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, its territorial borders were guaranteed by all members of the Budapest agreement.
    Ukraine USA, Uk and Russia.
    Last edited by benyboy; 6th March 2014 at 15:09.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 

- Part of the    Network -

KEY AERO AVIATION NEWS

MAGAZINES

AVIATION FORUM

SHOP

 

WEBSITES