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Thread: Are We Slowly Slipping Into World War?

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    They could have been playing cricket, hockey, beach volleyball... Does it matter?
    Yes, it matters; because in an earlier post when I questioned how did we know they were playing football on the beach you responded by saying that the incident had happened right in front of the hotel occupied by the whole international press-corps so it had to be the truth! That demonstrates quite nicely the two points I was making...

    ...the media like to 'spin' stories and (or) people (even journalists) make mistakes.

    The other reason it matters is because children playing soldiers with 'sticks' for guns are far more likely to be mistaken for terrorists than children playing football or beach volleyball.

    Or we can go with your version: that the Israeli gunboat saw the children on the beach and even though they KNEW they were children (and KNEW that their 'guns' were sticks), and even though that KNEW there was no military target anywhere near them, they still decided to target the children directly, even when they were running away, right in front of the entire world press-corps...

    ...to which I ask my original question.....what possible reason would they do that for?
    Last edited by Creaking Door; 21st July 2014 at 16:48.
    WA$.

  2. #302
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    Trying to blame either the Palestinians or the Israelis for the problems in Gazza is pointless.
    They are both to blame and until `they` realise this there will never be peace.

  3. #303
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    Quite - so we do blame both parties and their surrogates. And since neither will accept the other's existence in peace then your prognosis is accurate. After all how many peace attempts have there been over the decades? Arabs and Jews both believe they have inalienable historical rights to the lands now forming the State of Israel. And so deep seated is that belief that it is unlikely to change in any of our lifetimes. Now were the annual £3 billion military aid from the US to be reduced or ended............

  4. #304
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    Back to the Ukraine/Russian sanctions.

    Could tensions over Ukraine hit space?

    With the downing of flight MH17, tensions between Russia and the United States over Ukraine have reached a new high. New tougher sanctions have been put in place, targeting Russia's finance, defence and energy sectors. But Russia may have found a way to hit back - and America's space industry is its target.

    When Neil Armstrong set foot on the lunar surface in 1969, it was the pivotal point in a space race that had lasted for more than a decade.
    America had beaten the Soviets to the Moon.
    It was a great moment of US national pride, but the two rivals soon realised they could achieve so much more by working together.
    "I had no idea when I joined Nasa, wanting to be an astronaut, hoping to fly, that I would have anything to do with Russia," says Mike Foale, the British-born Nasa astronaut.
    But during his 26-year career with the US space agency, he worked extensively with Russian cosmonauts as the alliance between the two nations grew.
    "Collaboration between any group, and of course countries, is far more profitable for everybody than reservation and competition and being antagonistic," he explains.
    "So, in the end, humans always win more if they co-operate."
    But today, the Americans don't just collaborate with the Russians. They depend on them.
    In 2011, the Atlantis Shuttle flew its last mission. Nasa's space shuttle programme had come to an end.
    Now, to get to the International Space Station (ISS) - a long-serving symbol of unity in space - the Americans have to catch a lift from the Russians on their Soyuz spacecraft, at a cost of more than $60 million a seat.
    But as tensions grow over Ukraine, relations between the US and Russia are becoming ever more fraught.
    Earlier this year, a leaked memo revealed that Nasa was suspending some of its ties with Russia as part of America's ongoing sanctions, apart from work on the ISS.
    Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin responded by suggesting the Americans send their astronauts into space using a trampoline.
    If Russia put a stop to these space taxi rides, American astronauts would be grounded. But Dr Foale says the Russians would lose out, too.
    "In the case of America and Russia building the ISS, America agreed to build all of the electronics and electric power systems, and Russia agreed to build all of the fuel systems. So, we're joined together in this common endeavour and we both need each other critically," he said.
    But it's not just Nasa that relies on Russian space hardware; it's also critical for US security.
    The Atlas V rockets that launch America's defence and intelligence satellites are powered by engines - called RD-180s - that are bought from Russia.
    In essence, America needs Russian technology to spy on Russia.
    And the supply line is looking increasingly vulnerable.
    "This has become a national security concern that we do launch almost all of our reconnaissance satellites on this particular type of rocket," explains General Stephen Cheney, who runs the American Security Project, a Washington-based think-tank.
    "We can't put up those satellites reliably by ourselves right now, so if Russia said 'we're not giving you any more', we would really have to scramble to find a replacement.
    "But perhaps even more ironic is that we are providing the Russians with literally billions of dollars to their defence industry... and who knows what they're using that money for.
    "They might even be buying anti-aircraft missiles to supply to the rebels in the Ukraine with this money."
    The problem was recently highlighted during a hearing in the US Senate.
    There are only 15 RD-180s left in America's stockpile, and if new sales were halted, it is estimated that critical defence and intelligence satellite missions could be delayed by up to four years while America tries to build a replacement propulsion system.
    The hostility has left the US and Russia searching for new friends.
    America is turning towards home-grown commercial industry to bring space manufacturing back to US soil.
    Russia, though, has been looking further afield. Its eye has been caught by a new player in space: China.
    Dmitry Rogozin has said Russia might end its role on the ISS in 2020, and could turn instead to the East. He's been holding talks in China to discuss deepening space cooperation between the two nations.
    Sergei Khrushchev has a unique perspective on the current problems.
    He's the son of the former Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, and was a rocket scientist during the Cold War. Now, though, he lives in America.
    "The scientific community have a special relationship, based not on the political confrontation, not ideology, but on the respect of your achievements," he explains.
    He says both sides have a lot to lose.
    "I will be very sad if collaboration between Russia and United States, and Russia and the EU, fails. Because it is against Russian instincts, American instincts and European instincts," he adds.
    "Working here with the Americans, and Americans working with the Russian Academy of Science - I am good friends with them.
    "And now with the results of the ambition of the simple-minded politicians, we have thrown everything in the garbage."
    Bill Barry, Nasa's chief historian, is hopeful that Russia and the US will maintain their alliance in space.
    "Of course the relationships between the US and Russia, and the Soviet Union before that, have had their ups and downs," he says.
    "But space cooperation has been one of the things we have both agreed on, that it is a good thing to do and a positive example of how we can collaborate on important things.
    "It is a good scientific endeavour and I think both sides see it as an opportunity to find ways to work together."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28573788
    Didn't know that the US didn't build it's own rocket engines anymore, but then to hear that they come from Russia is quite a shock!

  5. #305
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    Interesting quote from the Pope.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29190890
    I kind of agree with him. Not a world war in the traditional sense but a piece meal war thought by many countries, on many fronts.

  6. #306
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    Except that there have been "piecemeal" conflicts before WW1, between the wars and after WW2. I cannot see anything we are witnessing now as being a "world war". In fact I'm not sure if he he saying anything which hasn't already been said by many others. And IS are strongly invoking the name of their god in pursuing their goal.

  7. #307
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34408120

    Russia bomb one side (has naval bases on Sirian coast), the west bomb the other.
    At which point do both sides `meet` ?

  8. #308
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    The answer to the thread title is still - no!!

  9. #309
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    Nobody has the appetite for war, not against a country with any military might anyway.

    Regarding the Russians. Is your enemy's enemy your friend ?
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by hampden98 View Post
    Interesting quote from the Pope.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29190890
    I kind of agree with him. Not a world war in the traditional sense but a piece meal war thought by many countries, on many fronts.
    To be quite honest, I take anything this individual comes out with, with a huge pinch of salt.
    Engine Failure:.... A condition which occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with air.

  11. #311
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    Not too sure why his views seem to be given such credence, unless he is talking about Roman Catholicism and other parochial matters. As for the garbage he spouted about "climate change"......!!
    Charlie

    Keep smiling - it's never as bad as you think!!

  12. #312
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    Russian Jet downed by Turkish Fighter.
    http://www.inquisitr.com/2485088/rus...s-russian-jet/
    (although the aircraft shown is a US FA18).
    Escallation?
    Last edited by hampden98; 11th October 2015 at 11:03.

  13. #313
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    Same answer as previous six. No!

  14. #314
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    With current world events I thought an update was required.

    Brexit possibly causing tension and the eventual split up of Europe.
    Russia indiscriminate bombing of Siria.
    Iraqi forces engaging ISIS fighters.
    Suspect packages found in the UK. Racial tensions.
    Russia sabre rattling in the Channel.
    http://news.sky.com/story/russian-wa...-navy-10625732

  15. #315
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    Alternately...

    Brexit uniting Europe in light of UK 'seperatism'.
    Syrian insurgence beaten down and country stabilised, unhappily, under Russian-propped Assad.
    ISIS beaten into insignificance with their diminishing territorial grasp.
    Home-made, amateur, terrorism takes the place of sophisticated, coordinated, terror attacks.
    Foreign warships transit international waters - as they have done for decades.

    No evidence is apparent to support the alarmist position over the more realistic one?.
    Last edited by Peter; 22nd April 2018 at 02:36. Reason: Read Post #2 in the C.O.C

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaketaObezyana View Post
    Alternately...

    Brexit uniting Europe in light of UK 'seperatism'.
    Yeah right. A quick look at the news shows Hungary isn't happy lately either. Swedish people definitely aren't happy either. The UK is just the only country that's held a referendum so far.

  17. #317
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    Hungary have clearly stated that they aren't looking to leave the EU.

    Other nations have seen EU popularity rise since the UK vote. Netherlands being the notable one.

    UK economy heading into the toilet is going to have a galvanising effect on those who may have wished to slip the EU leash.

    EU retrenchment is very much more likely than disintegration despite the imminent bloodletting in the Eurozone.
    Last edited by RaketaObezyana; 23rd October 2016 at 15:03.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaketaObezyana View Post
    Hungary have clearly stated that they aren't looking to leave the EU.

    Other nations have seen EU popularity rise since the UK vote. Netherlands being the notable one.

    UK economy heading into the toilet is going to have a galvanising effect on those who may have wished to slip the EU leash.

    EU retrenchment is very much more likely than disintegration despite the imminent bloodletting in the Eurozone.
    They've also clearly stated they don't want those 40,000 refugees, which the EU is trying to force on them

    Why don't their governments give them referendums then? Any legitimate source for the Netherlands other than a straw poll, which has proven inaccurate in both the Brexit referendum and the ScIP referendum?

    The only thing keeping the EU together is the fact it exists and people are scared to leave it. Nobody really likes it. It's a modern day USSR.

    UK economy? Exports up, tourism up, FTSE up. A fall in the £ has counter affects, although it still isn't as low against the Euro as in 2008.

    Oh and this, a Canadian sums up the EU in one line. It's a concoction of opposing interests, with everyone tripping each other other.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...-impossible-a/

    Canada walks out of EU trade talks declaring a deal 'impossible' and Brussels 'incapable'

    The EU’s free trade deal with Canada appears to be dead in the water as Ottawa’s trade minister walked out talks, declaring the EU “incapable” of managing international agreements.

    Negotiators have spent seven years hammering out the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Afreement (CETA) and wanted the EU and Canada to sign the deal this month.

    But Wallonia’s leader Paul Magnette refused to give his approval, forcing Belgium to withhold its support and so leaving the EU short of the unanimous agreement required to sign the treaty.

    "Canada has worked and I personally have worked very hard, but it is now evident to me, evident to Canada, that the European Union is incapable now of having an international agreement, even with a country with such European values as Canada, even with a country as nice and patient as Canada,” Ms Freeland said.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...sions-Brussels



    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/684...948.1477233872

    REVEALED: Merkel NEEDS free trade deal with UK or 750,000 German jobs could face the axe

    Marc Biese urged German politicians to “think” about the vast economic benefits of close ties with Britain as the cavernous trade deficit between the two countries was laid bare.

    He further highlighted the growing split between Berlin and Paris over how to deal with post-Brexit Britain, accusing the “hardline” French government of trying to scupper talks in its own interests - something which would deeply damage the German economy.

    Germany exports to the UK are more than double the value of those heading in the other direction, with British customers acting as a lifeline for “crucial” industries including car manufacturing on which its economies relies.

    Figures from the German government show last year the country sold 89 billion euros (£73.5bn) worth of products to customers on our shores, whilst British industries exported just 38 billion euros (£31.4bn) in reply.

    Mr Biese, who is the chief political analyst for the broadsheet Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper, said as many as 750,000 jobs could be on the line if Merkel pursues a policy of punishment towards post-Brexit UK.

    In an article for the paper he warned it would be a “huge mistake” for European leaders to take an emotional response and attempt to kick Britain out of the bloc without a free trade deal.
    The bottom line is that trade is being held ransom by a few special interests groups who persist in thinking uncontrolled immigration is workable.
    Last edited by StarfishPrime; 23rd October 2016 at 15:51.

  19. #319
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    So polls are inaccurate apart from the ones you post. Right ok.

    We've already seen the impact of the weak pound. It can't be much starker. If you don't want to believe that we import far more than we export that's entirely your business.

    You've made your point. It's just maybe not the one you expected to make.

  20. #320
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    Well true enough but you never know until you hold a referendum. However Merkel is definitely not popular. Most regard her immigration policy as dangerous and irresponsible.

    What impact? I haven't even noticed. The amount we import and export will change as a result of the pound falling and for the better I think. What do you think the affect of millions of extra people paying <1/3rd of the average amount of tax and NI gross is? And then sending a lot of the money back to their home country? The affect of paying child benefits to children who aren't even living in the UK? There are many pros to Brexit as well as cons.

    So far you've made no point at all. The fall in the pound was predicted and surprised nobody who voted for Brexit.
    Last edited by Peter; 22nd April 2018 at 02:36. Reason: Read Post #2 in the C.O.C

  21. #321
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    So, because you haven't noticed anything personally, nothing's wrong. Is that the general message?.

    You've not spotted the fact that today we're cheering the fact we will likely miss recession when, before the vote, we were leading global recovery.

    Our trade balance will miraculously correct so the problem of high import costs (Microsoft jacking their UK prices up between 10-20% just today) won't be crippling. Can I ask what manner of evidence you have that guarantees this happy eventuality will come to pass?!.

    Its funny that still now there is a real enduring stereotype of the average Leave voter. Not really one that's too flattering either.

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  23. #323
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    Hi All,
    I think that we have been conned into helping the US attack personally there just has not been the 100% evidence as with the skripal poisoning that a
    chemical weapon was used in Syria. I find it a funny coincidence that Israel struck the T4 airbase after the coalition bombing of the chemical plants and
    facilities.

    Personally I think we should have been given irrefutable proof and consulted parliament before hand, I think there wouldn't have been such an outcry and
    a kneejerk reaction if this had been done above board. As it is there allegations it was a false flag with the white helmets pushing the narrative.

    None of the MSM picked up on the Israeli attack apart from The Daly Star and Express, (Of which Syria claimed to have knocked 9 missiles down)
    was not even referred anywhere either in western MSM except in a couple of youtube sites and eastern news outlets unless I missed something anybody
    else heard of this ?

    Here are a couple of videos and an article link (Warning it's the news and not the religious references you have to pay attention to) Is this part of a wider move as this guy is alleging ? https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...gets-1.6007914



    Geoff.

  24. #324
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    The problem with giving the benefit of the doubt on Skirpal poisoning, is the Litvinenko poisoning that preceded it and the Yuschenko poisoning in Ukraine before that. That's one hell of a string of coincidences, and for me, RT spent a little too long defending the allegations, which had the effect of giving off the smell of guilt.

    In the Syria incident, the OPCW were denied access for 2 weeks, citing security reasons. The US/UK/FR attack hasn't changed the course of the war and it wasn't intended to, so a false pretext to achieve nothing seems pointless and unlikely.

  25. #325
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    Hi All,
    Yes I agree with all the coincidences and that RT is basically a Russian mouthpiece but at the end of the day we still do not have any proof which is
    needed. Just a couple of questions about this need to be answered. One thing I have never understood about the White Helmets has been they are on the spot of each chemical attack yet they always enter these areas without Respirators or Chem suits, least of all any gloves always touching with bear hands and they never appear not t be affected yet the weapons have literally just gone off, surely the chemical is still in the air /on the ground et.etc.

    Why do the UK keep changing the narrative about the poisoning the latest news was that it was a liquid rather than Aerosol/Powder or Gas. Also allegedly
    Russia is the only manufacturer of this Novichok yet the UK could identify it. so how on earth did they know unless they also have samples ? That of
    course begs the question:- How did they acquire their sample ? from the US ? If so then where did the US get their sample from ?

    To me we the UK are as guilty of spying on the Russians and others including friendlies as they are guilty of spying on us the trick obviously is not getting caught doing it and IMPO events like this poisoning are open to being hijacked for one agenda or another as to what they may be I have no idea just
    speculation.

    I still think that the two strikes in Syria are connected as Israel does not want the Iranians on their doorstep making it easier for them to attack Israel as
    they have threatened many times and continue to. I can see Syria allowing that to happen unless the Russians prohibit them because let's face it Mr Assad will listen to them and tell everybody else to sod off!

    Geoff.
    Last edited by 1batfastard; 23rd April 2018 at 18:23.

  26. #326
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    Solid proof is rarely ever available in espionage circles.

    I wasn't aware they did change the narrative, could just be the media trying to fill in blanks. They were trying to kill the target only, that's why an aerosol would not be used, it did however affect a policeman. They also wanted to affect something the targets would touch and be out of there before they did. An aerosol would be way to dangerous and far less targeted and could very well result in a major international incident - I mean a proper major international incident. Weaponised nerve agents (VX, Novichok etc.) are dispersed as an aerosol and could probably kill hundreds of thousands if unleashed in London as a large warhead.

    I think Russia were specified as the inventors not the only manufacturers, the formula is known. Quite a lot is known about it due to a leak.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent

    Spying is one thing, assassination using nerve agent in a public place is another.

    I'm not sure Assad does see completely eye-to-eye with the Russians. The Russians want to call a peace deal, Assad wants back full control over Syria.

  27. #327
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    Hi All,
    Again I totally agree with the assassination comment, but they cannot make up their mind on what form 1st Powder/2nd Aerosol/3rd Injected the final as
    I said previously also now saying in liquid form that evaporates quickly I may add. In my mind they are just rummaging around looking for and grasping
    at any straw because so much bull has already been blurted out and they are losing the ground on which to put the evidence firmly at Russia's doorstep.

    Like you say the evidence is hard to find yet they seem to be able to have it weeks later still ? Take the Syrian alleged attack apparently the chlorine used
    doesn't take long to evaporate so they are not that hopeful of finding any evidence ? ? Myself I think the attack was to distract from the Israel attack on
    the T4 base where the Iranians where killed and I watched one video alleging that Iraq had actually participated with Assads permission what's all that
    about then ?

    One thing's for sure something is definitely brewing over the middle east and I don't think it's anything good, I just pray all these people involved have
    cooler heads as with major powers involved it's even more worrying.

    Geoff.
    Last edited by 1batfastard; 24th April 2018 at 18:34.

  28. #328
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    Where are you getting the information about powder/injected/aerosol from?

    Porton Down has already confirmed that it was Novichok (confirmed by OPCW) and the investigation has confirmed it was applied to the door handle of their home.

    He was a defector, Putin hates betrayal (said so in video), Russian Intelligence had hacked into their e-mail since 2013. Classified intelligence also showed the Russians had tested delivery methods including door handles. Other than a signed confession from Putin, I don't see what more evidence they actually need.

    The jury is still out on the assassination of Rasputin though.
    Last edited by St. John; 26th April 2018 at 00:39.

  29. #329
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    Hi All,
    The authorities have stated the various forms of dispersal methods. Yes I know Putin hates betrayal and I agree that makes him a prime suspect. My point
    has always been the authorities have changed their narrative with just how the chemical was dispersed and other information drip fed to the public. IMPO
    there is something off with the whole affair.

    just as an instance what they are saying about it being administered in a liquid form well for that to have happened who ever administered the chemical
    would surely have to get really close ? i.e. The door handle it would run right off and if as they allege it evaporates really quickly why put it on the door
    handle ? also if it evaporates really quickly why are they still in the process of cleaning the alleged dispersal areas up now wearing NBC suits ?

    Like I say to many inconsistences make the official narrative suspect I don't honestly know I just fear that if the government can fob the electorate off in
    other areas then it's not that much of a leap to do the same about serious stuff like this. Whether this is to stop the public from worrying I don't know ? I
    cannot be the only one who would prefer the truth about matters no matter how bad they are ?

    Keeping secrets from the people who put you in charge is bad when it comes to the cvi world, while I do accept the need for security secrets that is a
    must and I can accept certain those secrets are essential.

    Geoff.

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