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Thread: Future of Belgian Air Component

  1. #301
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    Aree. SLEP is more or less impossible on A/B afaik. In a dreamland, competition would continue. With elections comin in about 1 year, i'm doubtful.

  2. #302
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    Am confused. Did not LM made 2 distinct studies /proposals toward prolongation of F16 operational life ,and now it is said to be impossible ..!. Interesting give great confidence dealing with LM.

  3. #303
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    That was about Block 40/50 aircraft.
    Block 15 is another matter. Might be possible, but is Belgium willing to pay for a Block 15 SLEP on its own, with unknown outcome?
    How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
    Yngwie Malmsteen

  4. #304
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    There is also the problem of data survey that was not implemented early on.

  5. #305
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    The french government raises its offer of "broader partnership" to Belgium for the renewal of its fighter jets, a market of 34 aircraft, estimated at this point to some 3.6 billion euros. A delegation of the office of Florence Parly, the French Minister of the armed forces, made clear, detailed, and amplified, Tuesday, May 15, its offer to the Belgian defence to replace its current American F-16.
    The project stresses the need to take into account the development of the Europe of defence, within the framework of the future combat system, a Franco-German project placed under the leadership of Paris but which could be extended to the Belgium.
    Auto-translated from:

    http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/artic...b4CtsaWLgq8.99

    I am not sure if I understand this -- they are suggesting Belgium should buy Rafale and then join the development of the new French/German 5. gen fighter!?

    AFAIK the new French/German fighter should be introduced around 2035 or so -- if this is correct, and if Belgium start introducing their new fighters around 2025, there is just a 10-year gap.

    A more attractive deal would have been if France suggested leasing 34 Rafale to Belgium from 2025 to 2035, followed by introduction of the new 5. gen fighter from 2035 or so. France will in any case fly their Rafale for a long time to come.

  6. #306
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    I am not sure that there is that many Rafale to rent.

    Parly is ridding a Mirage (but at least that's something).

    About the meeting b/w the two MoD (Be/Fr):
    "on n'a rien entendu de nouveau par rapport à la lettre reçue (de Mme Parly, ndlr) le 6 septembre 2017. Il n'y a rien de plus concret", a expliqué la porte-parole du ministre belge de la Défense, Steven Vandeput, Laurence Mortier.

    -------------
    "We did not hear anything new in relation to the letter received (from Mrs. Parly, ed) on September 6, 2017.*" There is nothing more to substantiate [the offer], "said spokeswoman for Belgian Defense Minister Steven Vandeput, Laurence Mortier.

    Source:
    http://m.7sur7.be/7s7/m/fr/1502/Belg...rancaise.dhtml

    *devoid of any substance already
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th May 2018 at 13:14.

  7. #307
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    Honestly Frnce should just GIVE these planes to Belgium so as to break the de facto incoming monopoly of F-35

  8. #308
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    Who pays for that?

  9. #309
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    I am not sure that there is that many Rafale to rent.
    France would have to change their plans for their Rafale squadrons of course to accomodate this.

  10. #310
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    France would have to change their plans for their Rafale squadrons of course to accomodate this.
    . Already done. Think we would need to wait for a big order from India (an dsubsequently and indian production chain)

  11. #311
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    From LM and the Belgian partnering industry in Wallonia*:



    *French speaking southern region of Belgium
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 17th May 2018 at 15:30.

  12. #312
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    From LM and the Belgian partnering industry in Wallonia*:
    Frankly... Not the strong point of US offer... Hilariously their main partner is SABCA (a Dasault subsidiary)

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweene View Post
    Frankly... Not the strong point of US offer... Hilariously their main partner is SABCA (a Dasault subsidiary)
    Its a Belgian company regulated by the Belgian state, with Dassault being its largest shareholder. Its no more hilarious than Thales UK or Selex ES (owned by Leonardo) working as British subcontractors to the F-35 program.

  14. #314
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    This morining there was a quick "summit" between french and belgium. Mainly about terrorism, but...

  15. #315
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    Can't find the story now but it reported that French govt was still pushing Belgium to buy Rafale. Don't recall all the reasons but the French govt representative apparently has a low opinion of Typhoon (as if Belgium would ever order it with political alignments/common sense dictating F-35 which allows closer liaison/commonality savings with Netherlands air force also being a user. Possibly almost the last attempt by France to sell a product to Belgium that was not even offered as part of the re-equipment programme competition?

    By the way it was also reported that the F-16 replacement choice might be announced at a July 11 NATO gathering.

    Another F-35 order coming up, I feel.
    Sum ergo cogito

  16. #316
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    And lose about 20 billions of offsets? And dassault disegaging from SABCA? MAybe... This file has become far too political for me to predict anything.

  17. #317
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    lose about 20 billions of offsets
    Nah, we'll just buy a lot of chocolate, beer, and cheese
    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 12th June 2018 at 21:07.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  18. #318
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    Nah, we'll just buy a lot of chocolate & beer
    ROFL!!

    you definitely have a great argument there

  19. #319
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    A report from the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) has made important recommendations about the F-35 to Congress and the Pentagon.

    The GAO draws attention to the significant deficiencies that the F-35 fighter continues to have, and to the budgetary cost of correcting them. Belgium’s CDH opposition party considers that these are serious warnings against one of the two candidates vying to replace the Belgian Air Force’s F-16s, and Georges Dallemagne, a CDH member of Parliament, has asked the government to think twice before closing the door to the European offer.
    Would the Belgian govt be interested in the opinion of a member of the opposition?

    If Belgium does order F-35, will the country then have to contribute financially to fixing the bits that do not yet work/are not going to be there until the mid-2020's?

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...pposition.html
    Sum ergo cogito

  20. #320
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    You'd better Never tell me again I am not supporting the Fr Industry. Never!

    *by the way, cheese...really?
    Afterall, part of the greek offsets for M2K were... Olive oil...

  21. #321
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    If Belgium does order F-35, will the country then have to contribute financially to fixing the bits that do not yet work/are not going to be there until the mid-2020's?
    No, since the contract is for full support till 2030, IIRC.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  22. #322
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    L'argument géographique ne compte pas. Ainsi, le fait d'"être un bon Européen" ne suffit pas".
    -----------
    The geographical alibi does not count. Thus, "being a good European" is not enough.
    (Foreign trade minister of Belgium speaking about the F-16 replacement program)

    Source:
    RTBF.be

  23. #323
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    Belgium first minister just declared that NATO submit was not a limit... Tha belgium would take its time.

  24. #324
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    from what ive seen on last nights news, the deadline would now be mid-october, and that the French Rafale offering would be examined.

  25. #325
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    yes. 14th of october is deadline for F-35 offer. When are elections?

  26. #326
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  27. #327
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    So... The check cleared the bank I see.
    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpudmanWP View Post
    So... The check cleared the bank I see.
    Ha, several checks. Forgot the one from Dassault to de Briganti.

    In all seriousness, I would think this gives legal grounds for Eurofighter and L-M to contest any decision on the Rafale. They “backdoor-ed” their way in without an official submission into process. This paves the way for a mess.

  29. #329
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    In all seriousness, I would think this gives legal grounds for Eurofighter and L-M to contest any decision on the Rafale.
    Absolutely not, this is stated in the RFPG. The RFPG do not engage Belgium governement in any matter.

  30. #330
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    Obviously, let's compete for the Fun of it... M'enfin!



    Meanwhile, in another "good European" country not far far away…

    Under a deal struck with the Italian government, the remaining 29 Dutch [F-35] will all be assembled at Cameri, which is owned by the Italian government and operated by Italian state-controled defense firm Leonardo in partnership with Lockheed Martin.
    Source:
    DefenseNews.com
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 18th June 2018 at 22:41.

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