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Thread: Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 thread

  1. #2011
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    Notice the R-60 Aphid missile on KH-2002 (TD-2)..the specs were changed to allow for carriage of the heavier R-73E later. And now the R-73E, although fully integrated, will give way to the Python-5.
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 9th October 2017 at 22:32.

  2. #2012
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    Looks like Thales has developed a lightweight compact Aesa for the Tejas mk1A. Most likely it's based on the RBE2 Aesa. It has undergone a preliminary stage of flight trials to evaluate its performance parameters at Cazaus.

    But the thing here is according to Ajaishukla Shula there is an informal pact between HAL and IAI that Elta will customize its EL/M-2052 aesa for the Indian Jaguar DARIN-3 upgrade and integrate and flight certify it on the Jags absolutely free of cost provided this same radar is integrated on the latter variants of Tejas.
    Now the interesting thing is both these radars will share commonality with in-service ones. The Thales radar will likely share Trm modules and back end components with the RBE-2 and the ELM-2052 aesa will be similar to the one on Jaguars.



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    Out of the 83 Tejas mk1A, 3 will be test models/prototypes and will most likely be held by HAL Ada while the rest 80 will enter serial service.

  3. #2013
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    From Tejas LCA FB page

    The LCA Tejas SP-1 performing at the 85th Air Force Day parade infront of Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa, Army Chief General Bipin Rawat and senior officials of our armed forces..







  4. #2014
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    HAL has begun the process for outsourcing most of the production work for the Tejas Mk1 to private suppliers. SP-5 (which is being built on the separate assembly line that earlier housed the Hawk trainer line) and SP-7 to have their first flights soon.

    Private companies to carry out 69% of production work for Tejas LCA

    BENGALURU: In a move that will help meet delivery deadlines, defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has decided to outsource majority of the production work of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas. The move will see private firms make nearly 70% of the aircraft.

    Presently, HAL is manufacturing LCA Mk1 and is a working on the ramping up of production capacity from eight to 16 aircraft per annum, which it expects to happen by 2019.

    "Major sub-assemblies such as front fuselage, centre fuselage, rear fuselage, wings et al, have been outsourced to private industry. The orders have been placed and they need about an year to supply these. Soon, nearly 70% will be made by our industry," a senior official part of the LCA project told TOI.

    About 85 vendors (private firms) will be involved in the production of LCA. Some major players are: Dynamatic Technologies Ltd, Bengaluru (front fuselage); VEM Technologies, Hyderabad (centre fuselage); Alpha Tocol, Bengaluru (rear fuselage); L&T, Coimbatore (wings); while the tail fin and rudder will be supplied by National Aerospace Laboratory and Tata Advanced Materials Ltd.

    "With increased level of outsourcing and capacity within HAL, we will be able to speed up the deliveries to cater to the present and future requirements of our customers.Enhanced outsourcing is the norm being followed across some important projects at HAL. For example LCH production will involve outsourcing as a major strategy," another senior HAL official said.

    HAL has established a second line series production of Tejas, which has come up at Aircraft Division and is being equipped with full-fledged assembly jigs. HAL's plan for expanding Tejas production to 16 fighters per year involves establishing a second assembly line. This has physically replaced the Hawk trainer line.

    5 delivered, 6th Tejas soon

    The number 45 squadron (Flying Daggers) of the Indian Air Force (IAF) has already taken possession of five LCA Tejas aircraft and will soon have the sixth one. "The sixth one is expected to fly in the next three days and the seventh in about 10 days. By end of March 2018, we hope to deliver 11 planes (including the five delivered)," the official said.

    For the first time, the IAF squadron completed the armament detachment—weapons firing—in September and October this year. "That was the proof of the pudding. It was not a developmental test, the squadron that will fly and fight has completed the detachment, and we were glad that it was successful," an IAF source said.


    The Flying Daggers Squadron is presently operating from HAL in Bengaluru, but will eventually move to its official base in Sulur, Tamil Nadu.

    ..

  5. #2015
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    5 delivered, 6th Tejas soon
    So are 12 going to be delivered by end 2017? I think that was what HAL announced earlier this year.
    Sum ergo cogito

  6. #2016
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    Some (very few) lines up:
    By end of March 2018, we hope to deliver 11 planes (including the five delivered),"

  7. #2017
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    11 by the end of fiscal 2017, which ends in March 2018 for India.

    5 have been delivered, and SP-5 and SP-7 are both close to first flights. That would mean 7 delivered by end-November or early December. and then 1 per month till March 2018. That is the target.

  8. #2018
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    Blackarcher:

    11 by the end of fiscal 2017, which ends in March 2018 for India.
    Thnks for that info which clarifies things (talking of financial year rather than calendar year).
    Sum ergo cogito

  9. #2019
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    The biggest hater of LCA Tejas: IAF itself.....

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/t...1/1086425.html

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    Simple reason. The IAF apparently was critical of the FGFA/Su-57 program when it wanted to get more Rafale fighters. Now, it wants Gripen E/F-16 Block 70s and not just Tejas Mk1/Mk1As, hence it comes up with obviously laughable arguments against the Tejas. the range, endurance, payload, maintenance man-hours all that is being mentioned are not true numbers. Just for e.g. the endurance of a Tejas on internal fuel only is compared to that of a refuelled endurance for a Gripen E/F-16. Even while the Tejas Mk1 is going through trials to add in-flight refueling capability. Once the Tejas Mk1 can be refueled in air, its endurance will obviously not be 1 hour. Payload is ~3800 kgs, not 3000 kgs. And that is the payload because the IAF wanted a MiG-21 size and class aircraft to replace the MiG-21. Now it seems to want a bigger jet to replace a light jet.

    Now the IAF knows very well that a lot of its claims are BS, but if it is claiming such things as obvious advantages of a Gripen E/F-16, then it is clear that the IAF simply is worried that this MoD/GoI will cancel the Single Engine Fighter requirement and is trying its best to avoid that situation arising. The reason for this whole thing is that the new Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman criticized the IAF for just cribbing about squadron shortage but not presenting any possible solutions. This was followed by the National Security Advisor, Ajit Doval, asking that the SEF requirement be cancelled and the IAF make do with Tejas. This would have set alarm bells ringing within an Air Force that has a history of importing jets and generally not providing the level of support that indigenous programs need.

  11. #2021
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    AOC-in-C Southern Air Command Flies Tejas; Reposes Faith in the Indigenous Combat Aircraft

    AOC-in-C Southern Air Command Flies Tejas; Reposes Faith in the Indigenous Combat Aircraft
    Air Mshl RKS Bhadauria, AVSM, VM, AOC-in-C, Southern Air Command in the cockpit of indigenous LCA-Tejas during solo sortie at HAL Airport, Bengaluru on November 14, 2017.
    Bengaluru, November 14, 2017:

    The induction and operationalization of the indigenous fighter jet Light Combat Aircraft-Tejas received a major boost with Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria, AVSM, VM, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Southern Air Command undertaking a solo flight for 30 minutes from HAL Airport, here today. Mr. T. Suvarna Raju, CMD-HAL thanked the AOC-in-C for reposing the faith on this advanced and indigenous combat aircraft.

    HAL has established the state-of-the-art aircraft assembly line including second production line for LCA to meet the operational requirements of the IAF. Currently, HAL has the production capacity of eight LCAs per annum and is ramping up the capacity to 16. The ramping-up cost is shared equally by HAL and IAF/Navy. Major sub-assembly such as front, centre and rear fuselages and wings have been outsourced to the private players. The 45 Squadron of the IAF “The Flying Daggers” was the first squadron to be equipped with LCA-Tejas in July last year. Today, the Squadron hosted the Air Marshal Bhadauria, who has been associated with the Tejas programme for long.

    AOC-in-C Southern Air Command Flies Tejas; Reposes Faith in the Indigenous Combat Aircraft
    The Squadron which is expected to move to its permanent location at Sulur, near Coimbatore, next year is presently involved in training of Air and Ground Crew, formulation of procedures and realization of the operational potential of the aircraft. Apart from the much appreciated participation in the Republic Day and Air Force Day fly-pasts the squadron has also undertaken detachments at operational bases to test the weapon capability of this agile aircraft.

    With the induction of an additional assembly line, HAL is all set to ramp-up the production rate in order to meet the delivery schedules.
    This stint will go a long way in assuaging the fears of defense enthusiasts and the common man that IAF doesn't have much hope and faith on the LCA program.

    The Air Marshal flew on SP-3,aserial produced Tejas.

    Well, Air Marshal Bhadauria was one of the earliest Test Pilots on the LCA team. He's not only both TP and FSL qualified; is one of the few who served *as instructor* at both ASTE and TACDE. Would love to hear his view - as opposed to a PR release.

  12. #2022
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    It's high time to start Tejas MK2 and AMCA with total involvement of Dassault from design to final product. Just for the sake of indigenous fighter one can't trade with capability. The know-how till date can be implemented in Tejas MK2 and AMCA.

  13. #2023
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    It's high time to start Tejas MK2 and AMCA with total involvement of Dassault from design to final product. Just for the sake of indigenous fighter one can't trade with capability. The know-how till date can be implemented in Tejas MK2 and AMCA.
    Which is afaik Dassault proposal no?

  14. #2024
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    This is what the Air Chief Marshal had to say about the Tejas Mk1, Mk1A and even Mk2. Whereas reports attributed to anonymous IAF officers or MoD officials claim that the IAF believes it needs an imported SEF. No names, just anonymous sources, with very dubious claims that can be easily debunked by any half serious poster.

    Clearly, there are two sides, and the import lobby side that has a lot of people who stand to gain (including private sector firms, agents, journos, MoD bureaucrats and even possibly some IAF officials) is doing its best to plant stories in the media to drum up support for the need for an imported SEF.

    The IAF chief said a plan was in place to deal with the "drop-down" - or dip - in IAF squadrons.

    He said the government had ordered two squadrons of Su 30.

    "The drop-down will be made up by two Rafale, two Su 30, two LCA squadrons and 80 more aircraft which will give four more squadrons," he said.

    The government has authorised 42 squadrons to the IAF and at present there are 33.

    He, however, added that the drop-down did not affect the performance of the force.

    "It does not mean that we cannot carry out operations. We can do restricted operations. For carrying out full-spectrum operations the IAF needs a certain amount of force," he said.

    "There was an order of 272 aircraft and once again we were 35 short by March 2017," he said.

    Dhanoa said a contract was signed in March 2006 for 20 Tejas aircraft to be delivered between April 2009 and December 2010.

    "Out of these 20 aircraft, only five were received ... Again a contract was signed in December 2010 for 20 more aircraft to be delivered between June 2014 and December 2016. So we have already committed to 40 aircraft in addition to 83 more Tejas," he said.

    He said the IAF would induct Mark 2 fighters with higher thrust engines and new weapons by 2027.

    Shortcomings in LCA Mark 1 will be removed in the LCA Mark 1A aircraft and then Mark 2 will be manufactured, he said.

    "Gradually we will make advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, moving from low medium to high technology aircraft," he said.

  15. #2025
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    Who is trying to sabotage the Tejas?

    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  16. #2026
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    HAL needs to get its act together and produce Tejas at a faster rate. In a TOI article from 31 Oct, it was mentioned that SP-5 would fly within 3 days and sp-7 within 10 days. It's Nov 17 and still there aren't any signs of those two.

    The ACM did one hell of a job by speaking out about the Tejas. It will help to dispel all notions of IAF dumping the Tejas in favor of the single engine jet.
    What I find rather interesting is his mention of Tejas mk2 by 2027. Initially Mk2 was supposed to have its first flight in 2022. Two three years of rigorous flight tests followed by certification and we could have Tejas mk2 enter service in IOC form by 2024-25.So we can infer the mk2 flight has again been delayed.

    HAL is yet to select an aesa radar and ew suite for the mk1A. What is taking them so long no one knows. Selection is just a small step of a rather cumbersome process. After selection, there is contract negotiations and then contract signing. Then there will be a period of12-18 months before the product is delivered to HAL and then the actual integration begins. Mk1A in its definitive form is unlikely to enter service anytime before 2021.

    When not carrying the LDP pod on the left intake station, the jammer pod can be carried in this station. And HAL should integrate the Date developed pylon based Maws on the mk1A. It's a two color IR system from Cassidian.

    And IAF should go for another 42 Su-30MKI over the already ordered 272. Fifty would be great.

  17. #2027
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    Vishnu Som of Ndtv who went on a Tejas sortie at AeroIndia 2017 had said that the Sar mode of the Israeli radar on the Tejas is better than the Sar of the Gripen C/D radar.

    Hope they replace the desi radome on the SP series with the imported Quartz one. This radome offers 40 percent better performance over the NAL made one.

  18. #2028
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    I read somewhere, might be wrong or mixing the numbers ...
    Sp5 - delay could be because its coming from new line.
    Sp7 - some issue discovered during low speed runs

  19. #2029
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    The biggest hater of LCA Tejas: IAF itself.....

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/t...1/1086425.html
    This latest sordid affair with the IAF bad mouthing and lying about the LCA in order to get what it wants; the SEF passed, seems to be the usual way the IAF operates. Makes me think if that's how the Rafale "won" the MMRCA contest: The IAF knew what it wanted even before the contest started and upchecked whatever forms it needed to push Rafale to the top.

    Similar to how the Indian Army wants more T-90S and just does and says whatever needed to get that done.

    Both of these branches' systems engineering for their competition process seem to be to pick the piece of equipment they want in the beginning and fill in whatever paperwork necessary to get their winner over the finish line. The actual competition is just a formality/checkbox.

    The Indian Navy seems to be the only branch that actually does systems engineering in their acquisition process.
    Last edited by Victor; 19th November 2017 at 02:44.
    But what a fool believes, he sees
    No wise man has the power to reason away

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  20. #2030
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    This latest sordid affair with the IAF bad mouthing and lying about the LCA in order to get what it wants; the SEF passed, seems to be the usual way the IAF operates. Makes me think if that's how the Rafale "won" the MMRCA contest: The IAF knew what it wanted even before the contest started and upchecked whatever forms it needed to push Rafale to the top.

    Similar to how the Indian Army wants more T-90S and just does and says whatever needed to get that done.

    Both of these branches' systems engineering for their competition process seem to be to pick the piece of equipment they want in the beginning and fill in whatever paperwork necessary to get their winner over the finish line. The actual competition is just a formality/checkbox.

    The Indian Navy seems to be the only branch that actually does systems engineering in their acquisition process.
    IF and only IF the article content is true, because there were contradictory articles since...

  21. #2031
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    Tejas world-class fighter jet, plays defined role: HAL chief

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/61712720.cms
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

  22. #2032
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    Interview with HAL CMD

    http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...-4944113/lite/

    Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Bengaluru-based fully government-owned defence aviation company, has recently been in the news because of the debate over the choice of single engine fighter for the Indian Air Force (IAF). The indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas has been inducted into the IAF last year. But there are questions about HAL’s capacity to produce the requisite number of LCA fighters in specified time. Indian Express spoke with T Suvarna Raju, chairman and managing director of HAL.

    Q. HAL is blamed in some quarters for not having delivered the LCA Tejas on time. Is that criticism fair?

    I don’t think the criticism is fair. That is why I am asking all the people who have such an opinion to visit the facilities which have been established. HAL can only make the product which is sellable or acceptable to the customer. As long as the development process is on, there is always a question about when is it going to stop and who is going to take this. There is always a mutual discussion and it goes step-by-step. There is not frozen standard of preparation of LCA except for the IOC. So, that’s where the delays are coming. But I know that is in the past, all the delays etc. Now, we are in the run to make these aircraft in numbers in the near future.

    Q. On the recent reports about the LCA Tejas and the foreign single-engine fighter, where does the HAL stand? Is everything fine with LCA?

    There is not much controversy about the LCA. HAL stands very strongly behind the LCA. We have established the production line capacity of eight aircrafts, the first five of them are already flying and have done more than 600 sorties. They are doing up. and we have kept things in place to produce eight and we are investing Rs 1,331 crore to increase the capacity to 16 deliverable a year. We have also used another concept of contracting the main components of the aircraft such as the front fuselage, centre fuselage, rear fuselage to L&T, WhAM, DTL.
    We have placed the orders. If these guys start giving me the required top-quality product, that adds to my deliverables. Now question comes, how much order I have. I have 20 IOC, of which I will provide 11 to IAF by the end of this financial year, and that would leave me with 4 fighters and 4 trainers, and trainers’ SOP we hope can be concluded so that the production run can be there.
    As far as the FOC order is concerned, mid-2018 is when FOC is expected to come but we are asking the customer (IAF) to allow us to cut the material. Because if we start now, the aircraft will come after three years. By then, this AON of 83 LCA will be converted into a contract between the IAF and HAL. However, today the facilities are on and the rate at which jigs are created are available, and the purchase orders can be verified and checked.

    Q. What is the delay in getting the FOC now?

    The aircraft are flying and the operational capacity enhancement requires a thorough verification. It is a developmental work and we are planning to fly 60 sorties a month. Now between IAF, ADA and HAL, we are ensuring that these many sorties happen.
    While the promises are for getting the FOC by mid-2018, we will definitely get it by December 2018. We should then be able to supply these 20 FOC by 2022. And then on to the next 83… If capacities are put on depending on the configuration clearance, the numbers can be rolled out. This is not like an automobile that today you give me a number and automatically I will give you the aircraft immediately. There is a lag, we require all the material to be procured and we need to make 10,000 odd components and put them together, and some components need to be bought from outside.

    Q. What is the HAL’s response to the Strategic Partnership model which is being introduced in defence aviation industry now?

    As far as HAL is concerned, we are doing good, we are plans are firm, the vertical of helicopter is really credible, we have our BTA, and our LCA and we are on to the upgrades of platforms which are there. We created our own upgrade on Hawk which gives us business. We are partnered upgrading the Jaguars, the Mirages and of course, the next in line would be Sukhoi. I agree that besides BTA and LCA, there is not new manufacturing but another hope for the industry is the FGFA for another 20 years in the future.
    Otherwise yes, the current manufacturing plus upgrades plus helicopters, we have work for us. As far as the SP is concerned, business in defence is something beyond the bottomline. Looking at the SP, possibly we are looking at is 200-odd single engine fighters or whatever it is, the future requirement. So that doesn’t really, and I don’t want to use the word, HAL is not worried about it. HAL could well be in the SP loop, that is what we expect.

    Q. Is the order book a challenge for HAL?

    We are trying to improve it. In aviation industry, the target is an order for 7-10 years. Currently, our annual turnover is Rs 18,000 crore and our target is to have an order book of Rs 1.8 lakh crore. It may not be impossible but it will depend on HAL, what we are promising and delivering. If it is kept on schedule, the order book should not be an issue at all.
    Last edited by Arihant; 19th November 2017 at 17:35.

  23. #2033
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    While the promises are for getting the FOC by mid-2018, we will definitely get it by December 2018. We should then be able to supply these 20 FOC by 2022. And then on to the next 83…
    The initial plan was to deliver all of the 20 FOC by Dec, 2020. But now HAL plans to deliver the 20 FOC by 2022. A delay of 2 years.

    FOC was planned to be achieved by Dec, 2014.
    The standard of preparation for FOC hasn't been finalized till now.

  24. #2034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Tejas world-class fighter jet, plays defined role: HAL chief[/url]
    Thats a very diplomatic statement, never seen a fighter jet play an un-defined role.

    First there were multi-role fighters than there was a omni role fighter now a defined role fighter. Not sure what to make of it.

  25. #2035
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    No.45 'Flying Daggers' Squadron has already flown more than 600 sorties in just over a 14 months, with the 5th Tejas (SP6) having been delivered at the end of July 2017 only. For the first 4 months from July 2016, they had just 2 Series Production jets with more getting progressively added at 3 month intervals. So, for most part of the year, they've used 3 to 4 Tejas Mk1s and still managed an impressive number of sorties. Speaks well for the availability of the small fleet.
    Last edited by BlackArcher; 20th November 2017 at 19:37.

  26. #2036
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    yes that's a very good point. 600.
    Notice however that in total honesty they should speak in term of flight hours.

  27. #2037
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    That would hardly really matter. One knows that the Tejas is not capable of in-flight refueling as of today, so its max sortie duration would be 1 hour. Average sortie duration would be in the ~30-40 minutes range. That would mean that I'd guess ~350-400 hours in IAF SERVICE. the total prototype fleet has put another ~3600+ hours.

    In fact, they've been clocking record number of sorties with the prototypes that are with NFTC and ADA. Last 2 months, they've clocked a record number of sorties, almost 48-50 sorties with the test fleet alone.

  28. #2038
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    One knows that the Tejas is not capable of in-flight refueling as of today, so its max sortie duration would be 1 hour.
    So if you fill the tanks, what is the maximum payload that can be carried at MTOW? I imagine that the aircraft is not suited for A2G operations except at very limited range.
    Sum ergo cogito

  29. #2039
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    A blatant misinformation campaign is being conducted by Sushant Singh of Indian Express.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/ex....s-now-4946876/

    An anonymous senior IAF officer who also happens to be a test pilot has said that Tejas needs to be escorted into the battle arena by more capable fighters. What a load of bull****.

    His endurance figures are also messed up.

  30. #2040
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    @Spitfire9

    So if you fill the tanks, what is the maximum payload that can be carried at MTOW? I imagine that the aircraft is not suited for A2G operations except at very limited range.
    At max internal fuel load, 3800 kgs of weapons can be carried. Tejas is good in A2G ops even at a considerable range. With two 800 litre drop tanks, there's still space for 4 1000 lb dumb/lgb. The inboard station can carry two 1000 lb bombs in a tandem configuration. And a new drop tank for the mid board station is coming up.

    Then there's the option of carrying the 250 lb Saaw and Spice - 250. Four can be carried per station. So even with a 1200 litre drop tank in the inboard station, I can carry 8 Spice 250 along with two Python-5 wvraam. You will also be able to carry your Litening 3 LDP along with this.
    the centerline station can also be used to carry bombs.

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