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  • flanker30
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2009
    • 517

    Came across this pic. (I presume it's a photoshop job.) Apologies if it's a re-post. CVF is a bit broad on the beam - why is that?

    Comment

    • Fedaykin
      Fueled by Tea
      • Dec 2005
      • 5295

      Interesting photoshop of QE at Rosyth as if it gives a nice scale comparison to the Invincible class.

      Certainly a tight fit, then again I always feel that choosing Rosyth was a political choice to keep Gordon Brown happy. Personally I feel Harland and Wolff was the better build site, with a floodable basin big enough for a Nimitz class carrier let alone CVF plus Sampson and Goliath.
      Because sometimes in life we need a bit of fun

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNAp3mKepc

      Comment

      • RVFHarrier
        Rank 3 Registered User
        • May 2010
        • 105

        Originally posted by flanker30 View Post
        Came across this pic. (I presume it's a photoshop job.) Apologies if it's a re-post. CVF is a bit broad on the beam - why is that?

        *Huge pic of CVF*
        Most likely so that there's room for aircraft to taxi, take off and land all at the same time in the absence of an angled flight deck.

        Comment

        • bazv
          olde rigger
          • Feb 2005
          • 5884

          Originally posted by RVFHarrier View Post
          Most likely so that there's room for aircraft to taxi, take off and land all at the same time in the absence of an angled flight deck.
          Or to allow room for an angled flight deck :diablo:

          Comment

          • F/A-18RN
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • May 2005
            • 256

            Originally posted by Fedaykin View Post
            Interesting photoshop of QE at Rosyth as if it gives a nice scale comparison to the Invincible class.

            Certainly a tight fit, then again I always feel that choosing Rosyth was a political choice to keep Gordon Brown happy. Personally I feel Harland and Wolff was the better build site, with a floodable basin big enough for a Nimitz class carrier let alone CVF plus Sampson and Goliath.
            Prince of Wales actually as evidenced by the P on the flight deck.

            Comment

            • Super Nimrod
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2005
              • 1053

              The reality is that it wont be quite as tight as that as the dock has been enlarged by widening it by 9m. See link to Halcrow & BAM Nuttal who are on the project.

              http://www.bamnuttall.co.uk/news/mar...s_answers.html

              http://www.halcrow.com/Our-projects/...yard-Scotland/

              I understood that the Goliath construction crane was originally due to arrive this month, does anyone know if it has arrived ?

              Comment

              • flanker30
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2009
                • 517

                The CVFs will have the S1850M long-range radars. Could the Sampson radar be added, and the Sylver VLS like on the Charles de Gaulle or the Italian Cavour? There seems to be plenty of space. Would that reduce the need to have a Type 45 around all the time?

                Comment

                • Witcha
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 1241

                  Originally posted by flanker30 View Post
                  The CVFs will have the S1850M long-range radars. Could the Sampson radar be added, and the Sylver VLS like on the Charles de Gaulle or the Italian Cavour? There seems to be plenty of space. Would that reduce the need to have a Type 45 around all the time?
                  The air search radar on CVF will be the ARTISAN, a derivative of SAMPSON that's also been earmarked for the Type 26 frigates. You can see it in the model; it's the single-faced rotating antenna on the rear island.

                  As for the SAMs, there's definitely a lot of space considering these will be 65000 ton ships with only 40-50 aircraft embarked, but I doubt it'll have anything more than a point defence system. Probably the CAMM, which will also be used on the Type 26.

                  Comment

                  • Liger30
                    Armed Forces supporter
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 901

                    Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                    The air search radar on CVF will be the ARTISAN, a derivative of SAMPSON that's also been earmarked for the Type 26 frigates. You can see it in the model; it's the single-faced rotating antenna on the rear island.

                    As for the SAMs, there's definitely a lot of space considering these will be 65000 ton ships with only 40-50 aircraft embarked, but I doubt it'll have anything more than a point defence system. Probably the CAMM, which will also be used on the Type 26.
                    The Artisan is on one island, the S1850M on top the other.

                    As for SAMs, the CVF could certainly get Aster, even the Aster 30 wanting to. But it won't simply because there's no money to spend to fit them up the ship.
                    Probably it won't even get the Phalanx CIWSs you see in the graphics, but it will only be "fitted for, but not with".
                    Not going to see missiles on it that easy.
                    "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                    Comment

                    • F/A-18RN
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2005
                      • 256

                      Take this with a pinch of salt due to the source , and indeed it may not say anything new but this thread and the one over in Modern Military Aviation on the F35b being replaced by the Super Hornet may be academic:
                      http://www.metro.co.uk/news/838576-b...craft-carriers

                      Comment

                      • Liger30
                        Armed Forces supporter
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 901

                        Originally posted by F/A-18RN View Post
                        Take this with a pinch of salt due to the source , and indeed it may not say anything new but this thread and the one over in Modern Military Aviation on the F35b being replaced by the Super Hornet may be academic:
                        http://www.metro.co.uk/news/838576-b...craft-carriers
                        I keep saying this is non-sense. A STRATEGIC review in my vision would have been a document starting with two assumptions: aircraft carriers and marines SAFE. They are the only real mean the UK has to influence events around the world, even more than Trident in their way.
                        The rest should pretty much be built around them.
                        "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                        Comment

                        • Stryker73
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 274

                          Originally posted by F/A-18RN View Post
                          Take this with a pinch of salt due to the source , and indeed it may not say anything new but this thread and the one over in Modern Military Aviation on the F35b being replaced by the Super Hornet may be academic:
                          http://www.metro.co.uk/news/838576-b...craft-carriers
                          See the defence review thread, this report is mentioned there.

                          It's a throw away piece that basically says everything is on the table in the SDR apart from Trident and the UK may end up with one,two or no carriers.

                          In other news, Elvis is dead and the USSR has crumbled

                          Comment

                          • flanker30
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 517

                            Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                            The air search radar on CVF will be the ARTISAN, a derivative of SAMPSON that's also been earmarked for the Type 26 frigates. You can see it in the model; it's the single-faced rotating antenna on the rear island.

                            As for the SAMs, there's definitely a lot of space considering these will be 65000 ton ships with only 40-50 aircraft embarked, but I doubt it'll have anything more than a point defence system. Probably the CAMM, which will also be used on the Type 26.
                            This image from some years ago shows that the initial plan was to fit Sampson on the CVFs.

                            Comment

                            • Liger30
                              Armed Forces supporter
                              • Jul 2010
                              • 901

                              This image from some years ago shows that the initial plan was to fit Sampson on the CVFs.
                              Yeah, it was.

                              Before the hundredth cost cutting exercise kicked in.
                              "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                              Comment

                              • nocutstoRAF
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • May 2010
                                • 954

                                Sadly true - but it could be argued that the reason why so much was cut was that they over spec'ed the CVF's then had cut back the gold plate (along with some other things which I think should have not been cut).

                                Still let’s hope Artisan 3D is good enough.

                                To cheer Liger up here is a total unrelated pic of some RN amphibious vessels
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by nocutstoRAF; 27th August 2010, 15:06. Reason: make the sentence read better
                                If having a little knowledge is dangerous then I must be bloody deadly

                                Comment

                                • Witcha
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jun 2010
                                  • 1241

                                  Artisan is a pretty capable radar in its own right. Technology-wise it may actually be more advanced than the SAMPSON, since it utilizes elements from a couple of other radar programmes, and it's designed more as a multi-role radar. On the T26s it'll serve as both air and volume search radar, and it can also perform air traffic control, useful for a carrier.
                                  http://www.science.mod.uk/codex/issue2/news/news5.aspx

                                  Originally posted by flanker30 View Post
                                  This image from some years ago shows that the initial plan was to fit Sampson on the CVFs.

                                  What exactly are those metal cables jutting out of the sides of the deck? I've seen them on pretty much all modern CATOBAR and STOBAR carrier designs. I initially thought they were related to the arrested recovery system, but that probably isn't the case.

                                  Comment

                                  • Grim901
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • May 2009
                                    • 1143

                                    Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                                    Artisan is a pretty capable radar in its own right. Technology-wise it may actually be more advanced than the SAMPSON, since it utilizes elements from a couple of other radar programmes, and it's designed more as a multi-role radar. On the T26s it'll serve as both air and volume search radar, and it can also perform air traffic control, useful for a carrier.
                                    http://www.science.mod.uk/codex/issue2/news/news5.aspx


                                    What exactly are those metal cables jutting out of the sides of the deck? I've seen them on pretty much all modern CATOBAR and STOBAR carrier designs. I initially thought they were related to the arrested recovery system, but that probably isn't the case.
                                    They are future proofing. When the oil runs out those metal cables can be lowered into the water to propel the vessel forward. I believe the correct nautical term is "oars". :P

                                    Comment

                                    • flanker30
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2009
                                      • 517

                                      Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                                      .......
                                      What exactly are those metal cables jutting out of the sides of the deck? I've seen them on pretty much all modern CATOBAR and STOBAR carrier designs. I initially thought they were related to the arrested recovery system, but that probably isn't the case.
                                      Maybe they're something to do with the tennis courts

                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0jgZ...eature=related

                                      Comment

                                      • Grim901
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • May 2009
                                        • 1143

                                        Whatever they are, that forward-most one is right in the Phalanx's field of fire.

                                        Comment

                                        • Geoff_B
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jul 2010
                                          • 507

                                          Whip Aerials for the radio system, they are stored in the verticle position but drop to horizontal for flight deck ops.

                                          They are no longer on the current design as those comms systems not using satalite systems will have any aerials on the island.

                                          Comment

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