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  • cockneyjock1974
    Rank 2 Registered User
    • May 2011
    • 123

    To the chaps above, thank you very much, your comments are very much appreciated.

    Bae Systems (Insyte) have a CVF simulator......

    The MISC housed a representative flying control room (below) to manage the movement of aircraft, with additional elements including air traffic control. Some 23 uniformed personnel supported the exercise, along with up to 60 engineers from BAE Systems Insyte, Qinetiq and over 20 small and medium-sized enterprises.

    We need to get people in front of the equipment that they will actually use to see how that information flows around," says Cdr Simon Petitt, carrier mission system lead for the Ministry of Defence. "We can de-risk applications by trialling early, and the concept of operations is maturing," he adds.

    "Our goal was to validate the CVF's ability to support JCA operations," says Peter Craig, mission system visualisation experimentation lead for the Aircraft Carrier Alliance. While a full analysis will take several months, he comments: "The objectives we set ourselves have been achieved."



    Last edited by cockneyjock1974; 15th September 2011, 00:03.

    Comment

    • Prom
      Rank 4 Registered User
      • Aug 2011
      • 269

      Jock, where is the MISC?

      Comment

      • cockneyjock1974
        Rank 2 Registered User
        • May 2011
        • 123

        Originally posted by Prom View Post
        Jock, where is the MISC?
        Portsmouth, however I'm not sure how old this pic is, it's showing the ski ramp and Dave B. I'm sure they can easily update for Catobar and Dave C though.
        Last edited by cockneyjock1974; 15th September 2011, 10:42.

        Comment

        • mrmalaya
          Generation 4.75+++
          • Jan 2010
          • 4664

          i keep asking this but, why is it dave? Is it because Lightning II doesn't roll off of the tongue and doesn't sit right in the UK?

          Comment

          • Jonesy
            Neo-conversative
            • Jan 2000
            • 5097

            Originally posted by mrmalaya View Post
            i keep asking this but, why is it dave? Is it because Lightning II doesn't roll off of the tongue and doesn't sit right in the UK?
            'Dave' come from a known 'wag' on PPrune if I recall the story properly. Early on in the FJCA contest, when attention was focusing on JSF, someone asked what JSF was going to be named. Said wag posted up 'Dave' as the answer.

            The name stuck.

            Comment

            • cockneyjock1974
              Rank 2 Registered User
              • May 2011
              • 123

              Originally posted by Jonesy View Post
              'Dave' come from a known 'wag' on PPrune if I recall the story properly. Early on in the FJCA contest, when attention was focusing on JSF, someone asked what JSF was going to be named. Said wag posted up 'Dave' as the answer.

              The name stuck.
              Jonesy you just beat me too it, well done sir.

              Anyway here is the link to that now famous discussion, PS The F35 Tesco was my favourite!!

              http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226765
              Last edited by cockneyjock1974; 15th September 2011, 12:05.

              Comment

              • mrmalaya
                Generation 4.75+++
                • Jan 2010
                • 4664

                Thanks Gents.

                I should have known it would be something like that....

                Personally I don't see how they will keep the II on the end of things. Whilst we are having this brief OT foray, why is a Tornado a Tonka? Tonka toy?

                Comment

                • Geoff_B
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 507

                  It will be good to see the upper units uploaded and start to be fitted to the lower block, although the CGI assembly video appear to have fogotten to account for the shipyard clutter which the photo's show. Perhaps its not quite as easy to drive them off and park them up ready to the lifted and fitted .

                  Whilst all this talk about the size of LB-03 its worth remebering that even when LB-02 and LB-01 are all fitted together with it, this will still only be half the ships length !

                  Comment

                  • newbury
                    Rank 3 Registered User
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 39

                    Here we go again,who is right Peter Luff or 'Janes'. More confusion. I would put my money on Luffs statement.

                    Question

                    Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North, Conservative)

                    To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the estimated cost of fitting cats and traps to (a) one and (b) both Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers; whether he plans to fit cats and traps to (i) HMS Queen Elizabethand (ii) HMS Prince of Wales; and if he will make a statement.
                    Answer

                    Peter Luff (Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Defence Equipment, Support and Technology), Defence; Mid Worcestershire, Conservative)

                    holding answer 12 September 2011

                    The Strategic Defence and Security Review called for one Queen Elizabeth (QE) class aircraft carrier to be converted to operate the more capable and cost-effective carrier variant of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The National Audit Offices report on Carrier Strike, published on 7 July 2011, estimated the cost of converting a single carrier at 800 million to 1.2 billion, a reasonable estimate based on the maturity of information currently available. We are developing more detailed cost estimates as part of our ongoing work.

                    A revised design is being developed to consider the cost differences between a post-build refit of the first in class, HMS Queen Elizabeth and an in-build conversion of the second, HMS Prince of Wales. On current plans, we expect to take firm decisions on the optimum conversion solution for the operational carrier in late 2012.

                    Comment

                    • Liger30
                      Armed Forces supporter
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 901

                      This tells us that a during-build conversion of QE is now impossible / deemed too expensive. So they are looking into converting her after built, during Refit, or convert PoW at build.

                      And almost certainly the second option is going to be the cheapest. The study into the refit option will come handy if the RN manages to obtain conversion of both carriers at a later date as has been lately suggested, too.
                      "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                      Comment

                      • kev 99
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 1535

                        I've seen talk that it's that QE will still be completed with it's ski ramp, pointless much?

                        Comment

                        • Liger30
                          Armed Forces supporter
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 901

                          I hope not, but it unfortunately may be, depending on how the contracts have been (eventually) signed.

                          Dunno if it would be of some use to make some limited trials with the 2 test F35B the UK is stuck with. That's the most it would be useful for. After all, those 2 F35Bs will have to be hard-worked to demonstrate all what they can due to commonality.
                          The proper CV aspects, will be work for the F35C they are going to receive swapping the last F35B with the US Marines for a C.
                          "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                          Comment

                          • newbury
                            Rank 3 Registered User
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 39

                            Originally posted by Liger30 View Post
                            This tells us that a during-build conversion of QE is now impossible / deemed too expensive. So they are looking into converting her after built, during Refit, or convert PoW at build.

                            And almost certainly the second option is going to be the cheapest. The study into the refit option will come handy if the RN manages to obtain conversion of both carriers at a later date as has been lately suggested, too.
                            I wish I had your confidence in the interpretation of what any politician says,as someone who is a natural cynic when it comes to these people I expect to see a different story within the next few weeks.
                            A few days ago it was according to 'Janes' definate that EMALS was going on the POW they had an explicit statement from Liam Fox to say just that,the truth of the matter is that they didn't and they have not clarified their report.
                            Now we have Peter Luff muddying the waters once more,this saga is set to run for months and give us much more to discuss.

                            Comment

                            • PhilipG
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 237

                              Originally posted by Liger30 View Post
                              I hope not, but it unfortunately may be, depending on how the contracts have been (eventually) signed.

                              Dunno if it would be of some use to make some limited trials with the 2 test F35B the UK is stuck with. That's the most it would be useful for. After all, those 2 F35Bs will have to be hard-worked to demonstrate all what they can due to commonality.
                              http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/
                              From the above I feel it is unclear if the UK is going to get the 2 F35Bs that was scheduled to get as LRIP 5, 6 and now 7 seem to be capped at 32 aircraft a year.
                              I can see why the US Congress wants to build a low number of aircraft that are going to require major rebuilds to correct some of the structural issues that are coming out now however how are the likes of the UK able to plan for the F35 with this uncertainty?
                              The big question I suppose is can LM guarantee that the UK will have some F35s to put on the Carrier(s) in 2020?

                              Comment

                              • Liger30
                                Armed Forces supporter
                                • Jul 2010
                                • 901

                                UK test F35s are not going to be affected by what the USAF does with its own production slots. Production slots will be the same.
                                The MOD pays, the MOD gets.

                                The production isn't capped at 32 planes because LM is being denied possibility of building more. It is capped at 32 because 32 are the planes that the US are currently able to finance.

                                The only risk (not a small one) is that the number of F35 built will be far smaller than those estimated, and this might well mean higher unitary price.
                                And less industrial return, as the UK has a 15% share, but if that share comes from less money, it is obviously going to be smaller.
                                "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                                Comment

                                • PhilipG
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Aug 2010
                                  • 237

                                  I hope in a way that you are correct, as I read the article they were talking about total LRIP, not just Pentagon funded planes.

                                  Comment

                                  • Liger30
                                    Armed Forces supporter
                                    • Jul 2010
                                    • 901

                                    The british planes were part of earlier LRIP orders. The third and last was the 32 plane in LRIP 4, along with 31 US planes, so no worries at all about them. Nothing has changed.

                                    LRIP 5 contains 4 F35A for Italy and 2 F35A for Australia, according to plan. On 9 August LM was given a contract for long lead items for 38 planes by the US Defence Department (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7343696), but of those only 32 are for the US (19 A, 6 B and 7 C).

                                    These 32 planes make the LRIP5 of the United States. Effective amount of LRIP5, if Italy and Australia confirm the orders, will be for 38, of which 32 US, compliant to the article you linked.
                                    If it goes down to 32 total, it is because the US are buying less planes for themselves, or because Italy and Australia withdraw/delay their own orders.

                                    But in no way the US cuts will cancel or defer the delivery of F35s to other partner nations.
                                    The UK still expects to meet land-ops IOC in 2018, with carrier-ops IOC in 2020.
                                    And LRIP6 does not involve UK orders either, so the UK is unfazed by this whole matter.
                                    "It is upon the navy under the providence of God that the safety, honour and welfare of this realm do chiefly attend." - King Charles II

                                    Comment

                                    • cockneyjock1974
                                      Rank 2 Registered User
                                      • May 2011
                                      • 123

                                      LB04 Move

                                      I know this pic has been kicking around other sites for a couple of days but, this is for anybody who has not seen it yet.

                                      There are I believe still more rings to be added to her!!!!

                                      Comment

                                      • cockneyjock1974
                                        Rank 2 Registered User
                                        • May 2011
                                        • 123

                                        CVF Simulator

                                        Here is the video of the Bae Systems Insyte CVF Simulator I mentioned the other day.

                                        Note the W on the stern instead of the P or Q, i'm taking this as W for Wales of course

                                        PS it takes a while to load but bear with it, it's an amazing vid and gives us a real sense of perspective from the AFT island.

                                        http://missionsystems.baesystems.inv...onsystems.html
                                        Last edited by cockneyjock1974; 19th September 2011, 13:30.

                                        Comment

                                        • Prom
                                          Rank 4 Registered User
                                          • Aug 2011
                                          • 269

                                          Yeah, I saw that (LB04 I mean) Jock, but I am not sure they are right on which rings. They were looking for list of rings. The only one I found was at

                                          http://www.pymes75.plus.com/military/cvf_build.htm

                                          which seems to contradict what was said on there. Who is right I have no idea, I know nothing of the metal bashing side (though I like looking at it)
                                          Last edited by Prom; 19th September 2011, 13:33.

                                          Comment

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