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  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6480

    Russian Navy : News & Discussion

    Russias New Navy Chief Vows To Stay the Course
    By LYUBOV PRONINA, MOSCOW (DefenseNews)

    Russias Navy will stay the course focusing on strategic nuclear forces while also boosting its rescue capabilities, the forces new chief told reporters Sept. 5.

    The five-year fleet development program is being completed now, and we have worked out a new plan that will soon be signed by the defense minister, Adm. Vladimir Masorin said at his first press conference. Development of the strategic navy remains the main priority for us and a large sum of the naval budget goes toward that.

    Masorin, 58, was appointed Navy commander in chief Sept. 4 following the sacking of longtime forces leader Adm. Vladimir Kuroyedov. Masorin was deputy Navy chief.

    Kuroyedov became naval chief in 1997, and his tenure was rife with turmoil.

    Under his watch, the Navy made international headlines with a number of embarrassing and deadly accidents, including the explosion aboard the nuclear submarine Kursk, which sank and claimed the lives of the 118-man crew. In August 2003, nine members of a 10-man submarine crew died when their vessel sank in the Barents Sea on the way to a scrap yard.

    Also under Kuroyedovs leadership, the Navy failed to advance plans to buy new battle ships, despite growing state defense allocations. Kuroyedov also got entangled in the battle for export contracts between Russian firms. Last months sinking of the AS-28 rescue mini-sub in the Pacific and the way it was handled by the Navy was seen by many as the last straw.

    One thing is clear: To continue in the condition that we are in now and do nothing is simply not possible, Masorin said Sept. 5. I have been given the task of stopping the Navy from shaking public opinion.

    Masorin lambasted the services top brass for deception following the AS-28 sinking. He said the Navy now lacks the funds to buy underwater rescue vessels of the type Britain sent to help Russia save the mini-sub. Russian-made vessels will be upgraded and re-equipped, he said.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"
  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6480

    #2
    Russia to Expand Baltic Submarine Fleet
    By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, MOSCOW (DefenseNews)


    Russias navy plans to expand its Baltic Sea submarine flotilla from three to as many as nine combat submarines by 2007, the Baltic Fleets commander told Interfax-AVN news agency Sept. 15.

    A submarine brigade with between six and nine Project 677 Lada submarines will be formed over the next two years, Admiral Vladimir Valuyev said.

    The expansion follows a cut-back in the number of submarines operated by the Baltic Fleet after the Soviet Unions 1991 collapse, the admiral noted.

    Of the three subs currently in the fleet, two are in a state of permanent combat readiness.

    The fourth generation Project 677 Lada submarine can carry up to 18 torpedoes and evade detection by radar. It has a surface speed of 10 knots and travels at 21 knots underwater.

    The 67-metre (221-foot) long vessel weighs 1,765 tons and can remain underwater for 45 days.

    The announcement follows a round of sackings and disciplinary measures at the top of Russias navy over its performance during the near-fatal snaring of a mini-submarine with seven crew under the Pacific Ocean last month.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    Comment

    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6480

      #3
      BATHYSCAPHE BUILT FOR A FOREIGN CUSTOMER

      The Saint Petersburg-based Baltiysky Zavod Shipyard has completed the construction of a manned deep-diving vehicle intended for a foreign customer. The vehicle can dive to a depth of down to 7 thousand meters and is designed to carry out research in the Pacific Ocean and explore natural resources on the sea bottom.



      The bathyscaphe is 8 m long and 3 m wide. Its crew consists of three men: a commander and two researchers. The vehicle comprises a habitable compartment, a load-carrying structure, ballast tanks and auxiliary compartments. The habitable compartment features a titanium-made sphere with a diameter of 2.1 m and up to 114 mm-thick walls. The bathyscaphe development has allowed the Baltiysky Zavod Shipyards production subdivisions to accumulate a good experience in building such vehicles. According to the RIA Novosti press agency, Russias Defense Ministry and Baltiysky Zavod are currently negotiating the issue of building a deep-diving vehicle for the Russian Navy.
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • Austin
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2003
        • 6480

        #4
        First Series Production of Lada Begins

        Prior to the celebration of the Russian Federation Navy Day in the workshop of FSUE "Admiral Shipyards" the ceremony of laying the first series production non-nuclear submarine of project 677 for Russian Navy took place. The submarine got the name "Kronshtadt" .



        On behalf of SOE CDB ME "Rubin" the memorial certificate of laying the submarine was signed by I.D.Spassky and Yu.N.Kormilitsin.
        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

        Comment

        • dionis
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2004
          • 1878

          #5
          What we really need to know is the status of the 2 Borey Class Subs, the Severodvinsk SSN, and the remaining Kirovs (i think Ushakov is dead, but there are 2 more in dock).

          Also, which new frigates/destroyers is the navy buying? And corvettes? (I doubt they are making any more cruisers or kirovs in the future)...

          Comment

          • Wanshan
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2004
            • 3929

            #6
            There will be project 20380/82 corvettes plus new destroyers (likely along the lines of improved Udaloy 2). Eventually also additional carrier.

            Comment

            • Guest's Avatar
              Terran

              #7
              I'll believe the aircraft carrier bit when I see it.

              Comment

              • RSM55
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Aug 2005
                • 416

                #8
                Originally posted by Wanshan
                There will be project 20380/82 corvettes plus new destroyers (likely along the lines of improved Udaloy 2). Eventually also additional carrier.
                Improved Udaloy 2? If you think about Novik, she's dead and buried (well, actually she will serve as a training/test ship). 20380 is a lame duck, over-corvette and under-frigate, with too much firepower and not enough range and C3ISR capability and she's facing a lot of criticism from the Navy itself. Likely that the project will thouroughly change after the first line unit (Uran replaced by Onyx and the like).
                Aircraft carrier development is scheduled to start in 2015 - imagine when such a project will leave the dry dock.
                Emphasis is on the Borey and Severodvinsk SSBN/SSNs series, and the modernisation of Akulas (both I and II) and restauration of the second Sierra. Borey is scheduled for 2006, 2007 being more likely since 2006 is deemed "the year of the Air Force" and since Bulava is not ready yet.
                There are plans to resurrect at least one derelict cruiser of the Kirov series, Peter t. G. remaining quite active.

                Comment

                • Austin
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 6480

                  #9
                  Severodvinsk is suppose to hit waters by 2006 , Also we could see 4-6 more Amurs as series production has started.
                  Also a new Destroyer replacing the Sov , it would be similar to the USN Aeiges Destroyer, Things are looking Brighter & Better for the Russian navy.
                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                  Comment

                  • RSM55
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 416

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Austin
                    Severodvinsk is suppose to hit waters by 2006 , Also we could see 4-6 more Amurs as series production has started.
                    Also a new Destroyer replacing the Sov , it would be similar to the USN Aeiges Destroyer, Things are looking Brighter & Better for the Russian navy.
                    Agree with last proposition, but the new destroyer project is in no way similar to the Aegis-fitted types (what do you refer to by this exactly? Burke? Tico? the Japanese ones?), except the phased-array feature, which can be hardly considered as a all-new thing for the Russian navy. The Amur production line is to start yet, but official plans are to launch at least 8 subs in the coming 5 years. Let's be optimists.

                    Comment

                    • Austin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 6480

                      #11
                      RSM55 I agree , with what you have said , By Aegis I mean the 4 Sided Phased arrar radar , NAFO had carried this report , I just hope these PAR are the Active Ones similar to SPY-3.

                      What kind of Upgrade will the Akula Go through , Also whats is the status of Typhoon SSBN in the RuN ,How many of them are in Active service.Even they have gone through major upgrade recently.

                      Russia Plans to have 3 Borei before 2010.
                      Last edited by Austin; 24th September 2005, 23:55.
                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                      Comment

                      • Pit
                        Pit
                        Arrogant SOB
                        • May 2004
                        • 707

                        #12
                        RSM55 have you heard anything about two "Akula-I" upgraded during the 90s-till-today?

                        I have heard the Tigr receieved upgrades...or it was just a refit?

                        Did they introduced new towed array sonar like Gepard?

                        BTW, did you appear to know the name and origin of this new TA?

                        Thanks

                        Comment

                        • RSM55
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 416

                          #13
                          2 Austin:
                          Well, nothing is really known about the RN future destroyer requirements, it's even more difficult to obtain info about them than about project 20380. However, with more or less confidence, it has been reported that the RuNavy has chosen IBM PLM-solutions based environment for project design (with CATIAv5/DELVIA as system testing progs. - probably the Russian analogues to be exact), which were incidentally chosen by Northrop for its DD(X) programme: that should give a hint about the complexity of the gimmick.
                          The targeting and nav. systems are said to be based around a new iteration of the Fregat/Podberezovik systems, with a kind of "AESA" feature. It remains unclear wether an "improved Voskhod" (i.e. better than the already 3-dimensional MR-600) will be developed for surface search or whether the new sensor will take over that particular role as well.
                          As of now, the operational Akulas (I and II) number probably 13 units. Pantera (K-317) is being slightly upgraded now in Severodvinsk (but she's considered operational as well). One should refrain anyway from using the "Akula I/II" terminology, since it is absolutely not consistent with the Russian one: there is only Shuka-B and the boats built in Severodvinsk can be considered as improved compared to the early (Komsomosk-buit) hulls. The Russians sometimes call the "improved Akula" Bars, since it is the name of the first sub built in Severodvinsk. The major upgrade programme in the coming years involves new sensors and comms suites, on the Gepard level, Gepard herself being an improved version of the already improved Vepr.
                          Concerning the Typhoons, 3 are effectively in active service (Severstal, Arkhangelsk and Dmitri Donskoy). No. 712 and 713 are to be scrapped in SevMash. Dmitri Donskoy has been modified to test-fire and then carry the new Bulava 30 missile, she's likely to stay in service for some time.

                          2 Pit:
                          for the Akula upgrades cf. above,
                          Tigr was apparently only refitted, although some sources suggest a new (Gepard-type) TA and sensors.
                          There are no consistent (and unclassified) sources about the origin and the classification of the the new TA. It is rumoured that the TA is absolutely new, and is also to be used on the Borey and Severodvinsk subs.

                          Comment

                          • Pit
                            Pit
                            Arrogant SOB
                            • May 2004
                            • 707

                            #14
                            Toshiba Multiaxis Milling Machine influence in Russian SSN designs

                            Hello.

                            Thanks first to RSM55 for answering my doubts.

                            As I writte in the title, I'm intersted in the russian perspective regarding the influence that the Multiaxis Milling Machine the Russians bught to Toshiba during the mid-80s had in the research/construction of improved submarine design's propellors if any...

                            I suspect that the "Improved Akulas" from Severodinsk, could be benfited from this equipment, and also the 945A "Barrakuda" SSN called Sierra-II in NATO.

                            RSM-55 or any other member, what's your opinion?.

                            Regards
                            Pit

                            Comment

                            • RSM55
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 416

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Pit
                              As I writte in the title, I'm intersted in the russian perspective regarding the influence that the Multiaxis Milling Machine the Russians bught to Toshiba during the mid-80s had in the research/construction of improved submarine design's propellors if any...

                              I suspect that the "Improved Akulas" from Severodinsk, could be benfited from this equipment, and also the 945A "Barrakuda" SSN called Sierra-II in NATO.
                              Pit
                              You can imagine that this aspect is met with mixed feelings by most Russian commentators. While not denying the fact the Toshiba supplied such a machine to the (then) Leningrad yards, they emphasise that
                              1) the scandal occured almost 20 years ago (1987 to be exact),
                              2) the sudden and tremendous improvement in noise level reduction was not at all sudden and not tremendous and is the MMM is therefore not to be credited for all the apparent noise level reduction,
                              3) the "smoothing" of sub screws as a result of the MMM use is only one factor out of many. The sub type that mainly benefited from that was the Victor III RTM(K) version, and significant noise reduction was achieved not only thanks to Toshiba but mainly through design improvement (among others: brand-new anechoic coating and the choice of 2 tandem, 4-blade screws in lieu of a single, 8-blade one).

                              What's definitely true is that older Soviet milling machines were certainly not as good as Western ones, and the Leningrad yards were glad to get something better than their usual Almaz milling machines with Bulgarian electronics. It's one of the strangest discrepancies of the Soviet legacy: while retaining state-of-the-art material science on the R&D level (from metallic alloys to nanotechnologies), Russian heavy machinery construction is still in its infancy viewn from a technological level (which is quite amazing if one considers the huge number of soviet/russian enterprises that feature a "-mash-" morpheme in their name).

                              While the Toshiba machine might have seriously improved the performance of later Victor III versions (as stated above), one should seriously doubt claims that this represented a kind of "paradigm shift" for the Soviet/Russian submarine fleet (or plainly: fleet, as submarines aren't the only ships to use screws ). The noise reduction observed in the Akula (Shuka-B) and Sierra (Barracuda) series can only marginally result from better screw shape. And anyway, Russia has now the possibility to purchase almost all the heavy machinery it needs (and has effectively done so, be it by upgrading its own products to Western standards or simply bying it off-the-shelf in Germany and Switzerland). Almost all of this kind of tech is dual-use, and would hardly be subject to any control as has effectively been the case during the Cold War. Therefore, one cannot state with confidence that later Akulas (or Barracudas) have benefited from the Toshiba MMM (regardless of what the Times wrote about Gepard). AFAIK, the machine in question died and was partly cannibalised a long time ago anyway.

                              Comment

                              • Pit
                                Pit
                                Arrogant SOB
                                • May 2004
                                • 707

                                #16
                                RSM55:

                                Your response was absolutely awesome and much more than I expected!!!

                                I will answer in lenght in a time

                                Pit

                                Comment

                                • RSM55
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Aug 2005
                                  • 416

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Pit
                                  RSM55:

                                  Your response was absolutely awesome and much more than I expected!!!

                                  I will answer in lenght in a time

                                  Pit
                                  Thanx a lot, and as soviet pioneers used to put it, "ever ready!"

                                  Comment

                                  • Pit
                                    Pit
                                    Arrogant SOB
                                    • May 2004
                                    • 707

                                    #18
                                    RMS55 some doubts:

                                    1) Did pr671RTM(K) included new screws and propeller system than 671RTM? (Victor-III)
                                    2) What was the name of the non-acoustic sensors of the 671RTMK series (were used by good effect during Aport Operation to track US SSBNs), I have "Kolos" from a west source and "SOKS" from deespstorm.ru...anything regarding the history of these sensors?
                                    3) Is there a command and control system called "Viking" in 671RTMK?
                                    4) There was any problem with the Pelamida/Python towed array of the Victor-III?, I read in western sources something related to materials deficences...
                                    5) Did any soviet submarine of the 971 or 945 proekt class have any non-acoustic sensor for detecting subs or countermeasures sensors?

                                    Hope you can help me!

                                    Comment

                                    • Blackcat
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Dec 2003
                                      • 1407

                                      #19
                                      There will be project 20380/82 corvettes plus new destroyers (likely along the lines of improved Udaloy 2). Eventually also additional carrier.
                                      Well, the new destroyers to me don look like went along the Udaloy-II designs ..... some pic of the improved Udaloy-II from the IMDS 2005, which has been posted earlier too ...

                                      Down below is the new 'frigate' that is said to be under construction/to begin construction and will lilely come out after 3 years. Putting some drawing for the said 'frigate' Project 22350, the original one was posted by Igorr at BR.

                                      Other pic was the speculated capablity of the project-22350 'frigate' by me and posted in some other forum a few months back. Some believe that its actually a frigate and is the next batch of Talwar class (throughly modernised) for Indian Navy to come from Russia. (the contract had 3 as option) And my speculation abt the same has been that, its actually a sucessor to the Udaloy-II class of destroyer with a very good set of offensive & defensive weapons. Its based on this 'destroyer profile' and the apparent structures at the stern (i cud as well be wrong) that i made the below stren config and the likely weapons 'load' that i showcased in the drawing.

                                      My speculation of Project-22350s size and armaments rests on the size comparison of the main gun turret, the stern, 16-cell VLS on the modersinsed Udaloy-II, among others. While some say its a follow-on design of the Talwar class ship, considering the main gun is actually a modernised A-190E.

                                      Another config (speculative) that u guys can see is the 'enlarged' version of the basic Project-22350, which was based on enhancing the combat potential of the 'basic' design by plugging in a 'module' thus almost doubling the weapons load at aft ...

                                      .
                                      Attached Files

                                      Comment

                                      • Blackcat
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2003
                                        • 1407

                                        #20
                                        And here are some news articles related to the new 'frigate', Project-22350 ---- first one posted by Igorr and second one the same fron NY times

                                        RUSSIA TO GET NEW BATTLESHIPS

                                        12:13 | 24/ 05/ 2005

                                        MOSCOW, May 24 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Navy is set to acquire 10 to 20 new battleships by 2015 that will set it back 5 to 10 billion rubles per frigate, Biznes, a business daily, reported.

                                        The keels of a new frigate and a new large amphibious landing ship will be laid July 31 on Navy Day, said Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov, commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy.

                                        The new Mk 22350 multi-role and long-range frigate will conduct anti-submarine warfare (ASW) operations, hitting other naval targets. It will take three or four years to complete one frigate, if this project gets regular appropriations.

                                        "Most likely, this project will feature engineering solutions that were used to build Mk 11356 frigates for the Indian Navy," Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy director of the Center for Analyzing Strategies and Technologies, said.

                                        "This is, in fact, a large destroyer that is called a 'frigate' for political reasons," Mikhail Barabanov, scientific editor of Arms Exports magazine, said.

                                        Experts have some misgivings about the July 31 deadline because a contract is usually awarded after a tender, but as of yet, no tender has been laid out.

                                        According to the navy's Kuroyedov, the keel of a new large amphibious-landing ship will be finished before the year is out. That ship will displace 8,000 to 9,000 tons.

                                        "The Russian Navy still has two amphibious landing ships that are unfit for action," Barabanov said. "It will take at least five billion rubles to build this ship."

                                        If the tender is completed and the contract signed, these will be the first new ships for the navy since the year the Soviet Union collapsed, a navy source said.

                                        "Not a single warship has been designed and built for the Russian Navy since 1991," he said, adding that the state has now started setting aside money.

                                        The Russian military ship building industry's recovery has positively influenced armed exports.

                                        "Naval hardware sales will account for 50% of Russian arms-export volumes, or more than $2.5 billion this year," Rosoboronexport head Sergei Chemezov said.
                                        Russia to Get New Battleships


                                        Improved Udaloy 2? If you think about Novik, she's dead and buried (well, actually she will serve as a training/test ship).
                                        he was mentioning the model showcased at IMDS 2005, if am not wrong .... and not the Project 12441 Novik.

                                        do u think this cud be the next ship for China after the Sovermennys? ..... it may or may not happen, but if the Project-22350 is not a ship in the class of Udaloy-II, then this cud be the one replacing the Udaloy-II else, i don see the Russian navy filling their inventory with a stop-gap design like this when the far better 22350 is just around the corner ... But one thing that i wud not like to see go with these ships to PLAN is ofcourse, the Yakhont ....

                                        20380 is a lame duck, over-corvette and under-frigate, with too much firepower and not enough range and C3ISR capability and she's facing a lot of criticism from the Navy itself. Likely that the project will thouroughly change after the first line unit (Uran replaced by Onyx and the like).
                                        I got to differ, with 4,000nm and a good load of offensive weapons, its the right ship to take care of the Russian home waters and can also give the bigges added firepower. These with their 8 x Yakhont (might become standard replacing the Urans), its more than enough to secure the Northern, Baltic and Black sea and pound many times, the likes of Norwy, Ukraine & Gerogia and other kids of America in the region, including any 'reinforcing forces' from outside, if they try to interfere way too much into Russian national interests. I find these chap very perfect in that role and myself as an Indian wud like these class of ships to make up the 'inner circle' and for small opponents (western side & eastern side) freeing the biggies for open ocean.

                                        Indian Navy's P-28 (ASW, AAW, AShW) is said to be based on these guys and would be complementing & replacing the P-25/P-25A class of pocket destroyers. P-25A fully deseve the name of "Pocket destroyers" as they have the punch of the much bigger and heavier Delhi class of destroyers, with the P-28 likely to carry forward the title of 'pocket destroyers' even further.

                                        Aircraft carrier development is scheduled to start in 2015 - imagine when such a project will leave the dry dock.
                                        was it not to start after 2010 and get into service after 2015??....

                                        Emphasis is on the Borey and Severodvinsk SSBN/SSNs series, and the modernisation of Akulas (both I and II) and restauration of the second Sierra.
                                        whats the status of the 3 Sierras?? ....though i believe they will be eventually upgraded to make it 'in-line' with its successor Akulas, anyone got upgraded??....

                                        There are plans to resurrect at least one derelict cruiser of the Kirov series, Peter t. G. remaining quite active.
                                        Now thats something that i've been looking forward to --- seeing the Ushakov being resurrected to be the Flag Bearer of the Pacific Fleet. Hope all of them will be resurrected into their ultimate avataar to see 2 each of them in Pacific & Northern Fleet, though the most likely config wud be (as is now) to have 3 in Northern Fleet (its always good to have as many slicers as u can have in that area) and one in the Pacific Fleet.



                                        And if we go through the ship thats coming Indo-Russian joint exercise, INDRA-2005, we'll see that two of the ships - The current Flag Ship of Pacific Fleet - Varyag & Admiral Tributs (Udaloy-I class ASW destroyer) was considerd not to return to service, with the Udaloy-I being written off by western naval analysts as she had suffered two accidents relating to onboard fire (1991 & 1995, source hazegray) and not been in operation for long.

                                        So its that the Russians have put in their best to resurrect these two ships. And if thats the case, I'll keep my optimism to see another 6 Sovermennys & 3 Udaloy-I to be resurrected as well. Also to note is that these chaps are to reaim in international waters for nearly/over 2 months and that will also show as to how good the conditions of these ships are.

                                        Agree with last proposition, but the new destroyer project is in no way similar to the Aegis-fitted types (what do you refer to by this exactly? Burke?
                                        well see my speculative pics ( above posts) and u may or maynot agree with me, but then my speculation might as well be near to the real stuff or it cud be way off the mark ....

                                        .

                                        Comment

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