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German Navy rejects newest Frigate due to poor engineering

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  • Y-20 Bacon
    Senior Member

    German Navy rejects newest Frigate due to poor engineering

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...this-christmas

    not sea worthy!!
  • KGB
    KGB
    Senior Member

    #2
    Unreal. Will they scrap it ? They will scrap it. This is govt at its finest

    Comment

    • swerve
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      Of course they won't scrap it. All the problems can be fixed.
      Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
      Justinian

      Comment

      • Tempest414
        Rank 5 Registered User

        #4
        Nice to see its not just the UK having problems with new ships

        Comment

        • swerve
          Rank 5 Registered User

          #5
          Spain (submarines) . . . . USA . . . Who else?
          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
          Justinian

          Comment

          • xena
            Rank 5 Registered User

            #6
            It seems to be a problem of all western countries. Whats going wrong?

            Comment

            • J Boyle
              With malice towards none

              #7
              Perhaps the naval architects, engineers and builders aren't getting enough practice designing, developing and building them...given the low production rates.
              There are two sides to every story. The truth is usually somewhere between the two.

              Comment

              • Tempest414
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                Or maybe Governments keep moving the goal posts and budgets

                Comment

                • swerve
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  It seems to be a problem of all western countries. Whats going wrong?
                  Haven't the Russians also had some problems?
                  Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                  Justinian

                  Comment

                  • JSR
                    JSR
                    Rank 5 Registered User

                    #10
                    nope. Russian don't have problem with new naval technology. it is more organizational problem of bringing everything 100% in house from Ukraine to make it even better quality.
                    Russia has 6 new diesel SSK all with long range klibr missiles.
                    even the two Indian aircraft carriers based on Russian technology are built under constraints of Indian money and time line don't have any engineering difficulty.

                    Comment

                    • TR1
                      TR1
                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd

                      #11
                      Haven't the Russians also had some problems?
                      In terms of warship engineering? No not really. The bigger problem has been system integration and weapons/sensor suppliers ferociously missing deadlines, as well as unstable funding/unclear overall direction of fleet building. Not usually the shipbuilders fault though.

                      Not aware of any gross engineering faults like in the German ship, though the civie icebreaker Chernomyrdin's design was faulty and had to be fixed because of serious overweight issues. Construction was delayed by years due to design bureau's bad documents.
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • alexz
                        Rank 5 Registered User

                        #12
                        They overengineered a ship when something like the Absalons would fulfil the expeditionary takings that is expected from such a ship.

                        Comment

                        • aussienscale
                          Rank 5 Registered User

                          #13
                          Are you serious ? of course the Russians have, delusional to think otherwise

                          Comment

                          • Sintra
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            #14
                            It seems to be a problem of all western countries. Whats going wrong?
                            When did the French, the Italians, the Danes, the Koreans, the Japanese, the Dutch reported major structural problems with their ships this last decade and a half?

                            Cheers
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • verbatim
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              #15
                              The italians had to modify their FREMM frigates, because they discovered only after having built them to be far too bow heavy.

                              Comment

                              • Sintra
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                #16
                                The italians had to modify their FREMM frigates, because they discovered only after having built them to be far too bow heavy.
                                ? Could you point to a souce, please?
                                Never heard of it. I know that the first one, the Carlo Bergamini received a 3,6m hull extension while being built, and that design change was included on the rest of the class, but never heard of the ships being taken again to Fincantieri.

                                Cheers
                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                • Siddar
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #17
                                  My guess is low production combined with generational turn over in engineers.

                                  Comment

                                  • verbatim
                                    Rank 5 Registered User

                                    #18
                                    The modification to the hulls was disclosed to be performed in late 2012, and at the time it was still not performed in any hull.

                                    The problem with hydrodynamic properties of the hull and location of center of gravity was disclosed during Bergamini sea trial (launched mid 2011).

                                    When the problem was admitted, the second hull was already almost complete but it was possible to modify it while still in the slipways.

                                    The only source I found at the moment is in italian language, but some online translator will do the trick: http://www.analisidifesa.it/2012/11/...-per-le-fremm/

                                    Please note that italian navy is really very secretive and ambiguous about just everything, with no exemption.

                                    Whatever problem they admit it is just one of to chances: they are whining exaggerating things to get more stuff, or they screwed up and are admitting only the bare minimum they are forced to admit.

                                    Comment

                                    • Vans
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      those are some major engineering problems, not just minor teething ones. don't know how they can resolve that through modifications (some one correct me if I am wrong)

                                      Comment

                                      • ijozic
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        #20
                                        The teething problems with the hull might get patched up, but the lack of a mid-range SAM missiles on a vessel of such size will still remain. A baffling design choice.

                                        I'd understand it as a cost-cutting measure if they left the space and provisions for adding a VLS module later on if needed, but they apparently have not. Can they perhaps fit some ESSM module in front of the bow RAM launcher? Or perhaps move the RAM launcher there and put a VLS module in its original place? Not sure what's inside that front hull, but according to another article on the same page, there doesn't seem to be enough vertical space for the classic VLS module so their logical option is to open up the modular bays area, but that would kill the whole design concept of these ships.

                                        Perhaps they can add some boosters and launch them sideways, but I don't see the German Navy paying the development of such a variant.
                                        Last edited by ijozic; 31st January 2018, 10:55.

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