Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Russian Navy Thread 2.

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest

    Russian Navy may scrap its only aircraft carrier

    Apr 6, 2019
    in Maritime Security, News



    Russias only aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, may be decommissioned if the Ministry of Defense and industry wouldnt resolve the question of the replacing the PD-50 floating drydock needed to complete the repair of the ship hull, was reported by newspaper Izvestia, citing a source in the Russian Navy.

    Russian Navy is considering prematurely decommission of its only aircraft carrier after then the PD-50 floating drydock that housed it sank.

    In last year, a floating drydock holding the Admiral Kuznetsov sank following a power supply failure, causing one of the docks cranes to fall onto the carriers deck, leading to warship repair plant workers being injured. The incident left a 45-meter hole in the vessels flight deck.








    Now the largest Russian Navy surface combatant ship is waiting for the decision of its fate near the wall of the 35th Repair Plant in Kola Bay near Murmansk.

    Russia does not own a suitable replacement for PD-50 built-in 1980 in Sweden for the Soviet Navy.

    Moreover, the project of the Russian aircraft carrier and before the tragedy caused a lot of controversies.

    According to Popular Mechanics,over the last several decades, the Kuznetsov had already been beset by fires, budget cuts, and busted steam boilers. Its so unreliable that a tugboat has been following it around on long voyages like a shadow.

    Even before the PD-50 accident, a number of observers questioned the utility and expense of refurbishing the Kuznetsov. In general, we need to critically review the domestic concept of the employment of carrier strike groups since Russia has undertaken to use the Admiral Kuznetsov to accomplish such missions, Oleg Vladykin suggested in Nezavisimaya Gazeta.

    Editor of the Moscow Defense Brief journal Mikhail Barabanov was dismissive of Kuznetsovs upgrades. Since Kuznetsov is not so much a combat platform as a training platform, deep modernization for her is an obvious excess.

    The Admiral Kuznetsov (heavy aircraft cruiser in Russian classification) was commissioned in 1990 and inherited by Russia upon the breakup of the USSR. The initial name of the ship was Riga; it was launched as Leonid Brezhnev, embarked on sea trials as Tbilisi, and finally named Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov after Admiral of the fleet of the Soviet Union Nikolay Gerasimovich Kuznetsov.

    In the immediate postCold War years, it rarely went to seaconducting only six patrols between 1991 and 2015. In 2009, an electrical accident killed a crewman off the coast of Turkey. But Russia has repeatedly pushed the ship into service, and a 2016 mission off the coast of Syria saw the ship lose two jets in just three weeks.

    At the moment, Russia does not have the technical and financial possibilities to restore its old aircraft carrier and also to build a series of new ones.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/russia...WbOYMp66tngCYU
    Last edited by Scooter; 7th April 2019, 23:57.

    Comment

    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6506

      USC has mentioned 2 weeks back is all they see delay of 3-4 months in refit of Kuz

      http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...e-delayed.html

      "A delay of three-four months is possible, but the warship will be handed to the Navy in 2021 as scheduled," he said. The aircraft carrier will dock at the 35th shipyard in Murmansk where dry docks will be upgraded.

      The USC will also upgrade landing ships of Project 11711 according to Navy remarks. "We shall take into account all drawbacks exposed by the Navy in the construction of the next pair of landing ships," Rakhmanov said. They will have improved maneuverability, ergonomics and living conditions.
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest

        Originally posted by Austin View Post
        USC has mentioned 2 weeks back is all they see delay of 3-4 months in refit of Kuz

        http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...e-delayed.html
        The above story was quoted from TASS. Which, makes it suspect to begin with??? That said, the recent sources about scrapping the Admiral Kuznetsov aren't much more credible. Yet, I see little value in Russia wasting any more money on it. Which, could be better spent on countless other projects.



        Hopefully, she won't sell it to China. Yet, considering the PLAN already operate a sister-ship. You can't rule it out....

        "IMHO"

        Comment

        • Austin
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Oct 2003
          • 6506

          Obviously the USC chief will be speaking to Russian News agency and it is a direct quote.

          Generally I am more suspicious about CNN or Bloomberg when they quote unnamed sources which means they dont know any thing just pulling it off from thin air.

          But if any new agency has direct quote from the person then it sounds credible.
          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

          Comment

          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest

            Originally posted by Austin View Post
            Obviously the USC chief will be speaking to Russian News agency and it is a direct quote.

            Generally I am more suspicious about CNN or Bloomberg when they quote unnamed sources which means they dont know any thing just pulling it off from thin air.

            But if any new agency has direct quote from the person then it sounds credible.
            TASS, RT, and Sputnik are nothing but a direct mouthpiece for the Russian Government. (i.e. Putin)

            Comment

            • XB-70
              Rank 4 Registered User
              • May 2018
              • 364

              Has anybody been able to confirm whether Kuz suffered waterline or below waterline damage? I know articles talk about "hull damage" but without a specific description you can't assess how difficult repairs would be. Back in WWII and the early years, a carrier's hull would only extend to around main deck level, and the entire hangar and flight deck was a light structure that was classified as superstructure. So back then you could guarantee that "hull damage" would at least be in the vicinity of the waterline. Today, however, a carrier's hull extends right up to the flight deck. "Hull damage" could be 50ft above the waterline. You don't need a dry dock to fix that - a pier with a rail track so that you can bring in a crane for heavy lifts will do fine.

              Comment

              • Austin
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2003
                • 6506

                Originally posted by Scooter View Post

                TASS, RT, and Sputnik are nothing but a direct mouthpiece for the Russian Government. (i.e. Putin)
                No diiferent than BBC is mouth piece of May , CNN mouth piece of Democrats , Fox mouth piece of Republicans and PBS of USG. Other private cable network mouth piece of corporates

                Have to learn to live with all mouth piece.
                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                Comment

                • djcross
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 5464

                  If Admiral Kuznetsov is to be repaired, why not use the centuries old technique of building a cofferdam around it and pumping out the water? There is no need to build another floating drydock to replace the one which sank.

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9826

                    Originally posted by djcross View Post
                    If Admiral Kuznetsov is to be repaired, why not use the centuries old technique of building a cofferdam around it and pumping out the water? There is no need to build another floating drydock to replace the one which sank.

                    The current plan, assuming it goes through is to combine and expand the two docks of the 35th Repair Yard nearby.

                    photos of the proposal below:

                    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3578074.html

                    For reference, the current docks in question:

                    https://www.hibiny.com/images/news/2...fa050bf906.jpg
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Guest's Avatar
                      Guest

                      Originally posted by Austin View Post

                      No diiferent than BBC is mouth piece of May , CNN mouth piece of Democrats , Fox mouth piece of Republicans and PBS of USG. Other private cable network mouth piece of corporates

                      Have to learn to live with all mouth piece.
                      Very big difference...............Which, is not to say the ones you listed don't have a bias. Yet, Bias and Propaganda are two very different things in this context.

                      Comment

                      • Guest's Avatar
                        Guest

                        Originally posted by djcross View Post
                        If Admiral Kuznetsov is to be repaired, why not use the centuries old technique of building a cofferdam around it and pumping out the water? There is no need to build another floating drydock to replace the one which sank.
                        Honestly, very little value in keeping the Admiral Kuznetsov. When you consider the cost vs capability. Especially, in the case of just a single ship. Far better to use the resources for additional Corvettes, Frigates, and/or Submarines.

                        Which, are far more useful than an old Aircraft Carrier. That is more useful showing the flag then providing any real power projection.

                        Comment

                        • Austin
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 6506

                          Originally posted by Scooter View Post

                          Very big difference...............Which, is not to say the ones you listed don't have a bias. Yet, Bias and Propaganda are two very different things in this context.
                          I have never seem these western media more biased than any other media specially when it comes to reporting against countries like Russia India China and many other.

                          They are biased against their own government depending on the party these corporate media their support.
                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                          Comment

                          • Austin
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 6506

                            Originally posted by djcross View Post
                            If Admiral Kuznetsov is to be repaired, why not use the centuries old technique of building a cofferdam around it and pumping out the water? There is no need to build another floating drydock to replace the one which sank.
                            Building Floating Dry dock would be advantage long term to repair/build large ships and cruisers or LPD .......its not just about Kuz
                            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                            Comment

                            • Austin
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 6506

                              Originally posted by TR1 View Post


                              The current plan, assuming it goes through is to combine and expand the two docks of the 35th Repair Yard nearby.

                              photos of the proposal below:

                              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3578074.html

                              For reference, the current docks in question:

                              https://www.hibiny.com/images/news/2...fa050bf906.jpg
                              TR1 check this todays update

                              https://www.militarynews.ru/story.as...505750&lang=RU

                              "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6506

                                The Russian Navy until 2025 will receive five new warships of the far sea zone - Shoigu

                                https://www.militarynews.ru/story.as...505757&lang=RU
                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • TR1
                                  TR1
                                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 9826

                                  They uh, misquoted him in that article.

                                  What Shoigu said was "these ships are planned for service entry by 2025", meaning the two 22350, two 11711 and one 20386 corvette. There are other ships that will be handed over between then and now, like the 22350s that were laid down a while ago.

                                  But the big takeaway here is that serial production of M90FR turbines by Saturn to replace the Ukrainian units is finally getting to the point that they feel comfortable laying down new ships after a long hiatus.
                                  sigpic

                                  Comment

                                  • Guest's Avatar
                                    Guest

                                    Russian hasn't built a Major Surface Combatant (Destroyer or Larger) since before the collapse of the former Soviet Union.


                                    Some just don't get that Russia is no longer the Super Power of the Soviet Era any longer.

                                    Comment

                                    • Dr.Snufflebug
                                      Boggleboople snufflebug
                                      • Aug 2012
                                      • 530

                                      Originally posted by Scooter View Post
                                      Russian hasn't built a Major Surface Combatant (Destroyer or Larger) since before the collapse of the former Soviet Union.


                                      Some just don't get that Russia is no longer the Super Power of the Soviet Era any longer.
                                      Eight new 4000+ ton multipurpose frigates (pr 11356M and 22350)... Two 6000+ ton amphibious assault ships etc... In the past 10 years.

                                      But most effort has indeed been put in smaller vessels, chiefly a vast amount of unproportionally heavily armed (long-range cruise missiles) stealthy corvettes and missile boats (20+ built in the past 10 years, out of which the Buyans are the most numerous, followed by Karakurts and Steregushchiys), and to keep the SSBN forces in shape for that nuclear triad stuff (Borei...)


                                      Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug; 10th April 2019, 05:03.
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment

                                      • Guest's Avatar
                                        Guest

                                        Originally posted by Dr.Snufflebug View Post

                                        Eight new 4000+ ton multipurpose frigates (pr 11356M and 22350)... Two 6000+ ton amphibious assault ships etc... In the past 10 years.

                                        But most effort has indeed been put in smaller vessels, chiefly a vast amount of unproportionally heavily armed (long-range cruise missiles) stealthy corvettes and missile boats (20+ built in the past 10 years, out of which the Buyans are the most numerous, followed by Karakurts and Steregushchiys), and to keep the SSBN forces in shape for that nuclear triad stuff (Borei...)

                                        Again nothing larger than a "Frigate" in the way of a Major Surface Combatant.


                                        To add to that the recent talk of "scrapping" the Admiral Kuznetsov. Which, was suppose to get a fairly good modernization. (upgrade/refit) Yet, even that was scaled way back. That was before the Floating Dry Dock Accident of course....


                                        QUOTE:

                                        Plans to modernise the Admiral Kuznetsov have been downscaled due severe cuts to the Russian defence budget, according to Russian media reports.

                                        A source told the Interfax news website that the budget will likely be reduced by fifty percent from the proposed $800 million.

                                        Instead of previously planned approximately 50 billion rubles for the work, it is planned to allocate about half of the previously announced amount the source said.

                                        The budget cuts will primary affect the modernisation of the carrier, whereas repairs will be carried out in full, according to the source.

                                        The remaining funds will be used to upgrade the carriers propulsion systems including replacing four out of the Admiral Kuznetsovs eight turbo-pressurised boilers while overhauling the remaining four.



                                        https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/russ...g-budget-cuts/


                                        This all speaks to the current reality within the Russian Navy....

                                        Comment

                                        • Austin
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 6506

                                          Good Details on Su-27 upgrade for Kuz
                                          Su-33 To Begin 2nd Phase of Upgrade While Russia Mulls Carrier Options

                                          https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...arrier-options
                                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                          Comment

                                          Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                          Collapse

                                           

                                          Working...
                                          X