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  • JangBoGo
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2011
    • 1510

    Originally posted by ijozic View Post
    Hmm, interesting. Not sure if they're just validating the usability of the new variant in sea conditions or they're also testing the viability of using these modules on ships (I'd presume that such modules would be convenient for ad-hoc installation on e.g. non-combat vessels?).
    Its the Russian way of doing things with use of common sense!
    What you see bolted on to the helipad is a complete combat unit. As I understand, their approach was very simple, rather than taking a tedious route which could have involved additional financial resources and modification to a new frigate to be used as a test bed, they likely installed the TOR combat unit already used for testing to test/validate its performance.

    Yes, there is a chance to see installation of such combat modules on non-combat vessels like tankers or other support ships which already is not wired for AD systems. But likely with additional containers with missiles to go with the combat module as 8 missile per module on a ship is a very low number.

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    • JangBoGo
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2011
      • 1510

      Originally posted by TR1 View Post
      http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/701626.html

      22350M frigates are planned to be about 1,100 tons heavier than the current ships, though it also quotes the 22350 displacement as 5,300 tons; most sources to date indicated it was about 4,500 tons.
      If so this will be in size true replacements for the current destroyers, and confirms Leader will be a small cruiser sized ship, whenever it appears.
      I wish those new modification which is said to result in higher displacement include a new section fore of the hanger for additional VL missiles or just a xerox of the front VLS arrangement.

      Comment

      • Austin
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2003
        • 6506

        Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post
        Well.. i recalled scar said that it's because the Fleet can only provide reliable target designation from that range.

        Ground target and essentially non moving target is the whole other matter.
        ----

        That 800 km range is in theory are plausible. Given high ISP or Ramjets, cruise speed and Lift to drag ratio attainable by the missile. Of course you can't expect 4000-5000 sec of Isp from turbofan engine of subsonic missile but, Oniks have size to compensate.
        Thats fine , I can agree with Scar or any one that having a reliable detection/tracking range for reliable positive identification of target and providing FC quality data with intermediate update is likely not possible at this time

        But having that long range has other important aspects where trajectory shaping without having to worry about running out of fuel would be another critical aspect , if they can get a 700-800 Km range then they can get a lo-lo range beyond 300 km which means a sub can still be outside the range and just based on Sonar Data can designate a target 250 km away
        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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        • TR1
          TR1
          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
          • Oct 2010
          • 9826

          Originally posted by Blitzo View Post
          given the armament and sensors of 22350 a 5300 ton full displacement is not impossible despite its relatively conservative/medium dimensions.

          When are 22350Ms expected to start construction and enter service, and what upgrades can be expected? I assume they'll buildl at least four 22350s first?
          These plans were floated a few years ago (Chirkov back in 2014 mentioned them), and there is not much new info aside from "new long range radars and additional VLS cells". Agat has been showing some rather extravagant 22350M renders with huge radars for the past several years. Hard to get too excited given the pace of the 22350; Severnaya claimed a few days ago Gorshkov will be handed over this summer, Kasatonov in 2018, and Golovko in 2019. On the other hand no new 22350s have been laid down in several years....

          http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%9C%D0%BE...%D0%B8%D1%8F8/
          sigpic

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          • TR1
            TR1
            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
            • Oct 2010
            • 9826

            http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%AF%D0%BD...%D1%80%D1%8C9/

            Admiral Makarov frigate is starting its "final testing" phase.

            http://flot.com/2017/%D0%A2%D0%B8%D1...D0%BE%D1%8225/

            Vist-2 acoustic jammer/decoy entering service.

            http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%97%D0%B2...%D0%BA%D0%B05/

            And some good news, the Orel submarine is back in service after repairs at Zvezdochka.







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            • AyalaBotto
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2005
              • 86

              Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post


              Hi,

              What's colour of the helipad on the Gorshkov pr. 22350 class frigates?
              The standard "red brick" colour or the same grey used on the hull and other surfaces?


              Thanks.
              Regards,
              Ayala Botto
              sigpic
              "Ayala Botto Model Ships"
              Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AyalaBottoModelShips

              Comment

              • Blitzo
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2011
                • 1332

                Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                These plans were floated a few years ago (Chirkov back in 2014 mentioned them), and there is not much new info aside from "new long range radars and additional VLS cells". Agat has been showing some rather extravagant 22350M renders with huge radars for the past several years. Hard to get too excited given the pace of the 22350; Severnaya claimed a few days ago Gorshkov will be handed over this summer, Kasatonov in 2018, and Golovko in 2019. On the other hand no new 22350s have been laid down in several years....

                http://flotprom.ru/2017/%D0%9C%D0%BE...%D0%B8%D1%8F8/
                I see, I see thanks for the info.

                A shame that the pace of construction is a bit slow, I think the 22350s would be a much welcomed supplement to the Navy's surface forces, providing near destroyer capabilities in a large frigate sized hull.

                Comment

                • TR1
                  TR1
                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 9826

                  Yes they are perfect replacements for 956s and partially 1155s as well, system and weapons wise. Also they look sexy.
                  Pace of construction has been pretty bad, 7 years for even Golovko due to system problems (not sure how much of it was actually Severnaya's fault). I'd hope once problems are ironed out with Redut-Poliment (and Saturn starts engine production) they could bring another shipyard into the program and pump out another ~12 hulls (just if we go 1-1 with active destroyers and a few extras) through the first half of the next decade, and that would be a decent fleet refresher.
                  I am also assuming the plans for Golovko and Kasatonov will actually be met. Somehow I won't be shocked if they slip.
                  But a new 22350M with elaborate new systems, sounds like more delays to me.

                  Unfortunately large naval programs overall have been an utter flop in terms of meeting goals and budgets. 11356Ms have been delayed in trials and construction went overtime. Won't even bring up the 20380s and company. The big subs take forever as well but at least they are not really behind world standard here and the scope of work is much larger to be fair. Although the amount of times nonsense like "8 Yasens by 2020" was repeated by officials until very recently was just mind numbing.

                  Shill sites like RD.net would tell you its all because of teh 90s and 2000s, but lets be real, its 2017. Putin's been in power for so long, and he hasn't improved it one bit. All the more comical due to his "tough military" image.
                  Last edited by TR1; 7th April 2017, 03:53.
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                  • stealthflanker
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2015
                    • 1026

                    Will Russia plan to have a new space based targeting network for AsHM as successor to Legenda ?

                    Comment

                    • Austin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 6506

                      Yes 23350/22350M should serve as good base model to replace most of Soviet built Frigate and destroyers and 22380/22385/86 would do the same of replacing light frigate/corvettes etc.

                      That would atleast standardise the whole lot of equipment like Wepons , C3I , Engines ,Electronic/Sonars/Radars etc , that single standardisation itslef will go a long way in improving the logistics and rediness of these ships in Russian Navy

                      SU build too many different types of ships with varying degree of specialisaiton, weapons engines you name it must been a nightmare of operate so many types each with its own degree of specialisation
                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                      Comment

                      • TR1
                        TR1
                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 9826

                        Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post
                        Will Russia plan to have a new space based targeting network for AsHM as successor to Legenda ?
                        It is being worked on right now, the Pion part of the Liana reco satelite system.
                        Several components from Liana are already up, though the situation with Pion is unclear/behind schedule.
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                        • TR1
                          TR1
                          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 9826

                          Photo of Vist-2:



                          And some nice pics of the Orel submarine on her way to rejoin the fleet:





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                          • TR1
                            TR1
                            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 9826

                            http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2544628.html


                            Techmash has orders for submarine anechoic tiles for the next 5 years.
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                            • nkvd
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 227

                              was the Orel mordenised or just repaired?

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                              • TR1
                                TR1
                                http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 9826

                                There was modernization involved, but not the big 949AM modernization (with weapon swap). That is happening @ Zvezda shipyard on the other side of the country.
                                Zvezdochka is just repairing/overhauling/life extending with only small modernization (interior information presentation, etc).
                                sigpic

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                                • nkvd
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Sep 2013
                                  • 227

                                  once again thanks.good work with the thread.

                                  Comment

                                  • TR1
                                    TR1
                                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                    • Oct 2010
                                    • 9826

                                    My pleasure. Just translating (mostly from Balancers) for my English speaking friends.
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                                    • Sab3r329
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Apr 2016
                                      • 91

                                      Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                                      There was modernization involved, but not the big 949AM modernization (with weapon swap). That is happening @ Zvezda shipyard on the other side of the country.
                                      Zvezdochka is just repairing/overhauling/life extending with only small modernization (interior information presentation, etc).
                                      Is there any news on the progress of the 949AM project?

                                      Comment

                                      • TR1
                                        TR1
                                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                        • Oct 2010
                                        • 9826

                                        Only that work is going on. This is Zvezda we are talking about, so don't hold your breath that the original timeline will be met.
                                        sigpic

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                                        • TR1
                                          TR1
                                          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                          • Oct 2010
                                          • 9826

                                          http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2550518.html

                                          The Project 21180 icebreaker (Admirality wharf) will not be built in a series, the next one will be 21180M, a cheaper variant to be built @ Almaz.
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