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  • TR1
    TR1
    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
    • Oct 2010
    • 9826

    Originally posted by F/A-XX View Post
    When did Russia start acquiring actual production MiG-29Ks? I thought they had no intention to do so. Are they already operational aboard Kutnetsov?
    Years ago, all 24 have been delivered. This is the first deployment of them on Kuznetsov past training flights and testing for the Indians.
    sigpic

    Comment

    • Andraxxus
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Sep 2012
      • 953

      Originally posted by ijozic View Post
      There's even a photo on the Tor wiki claiming to be an SA-N-9 launch from the bow, but the location is obviously ahead of where the SA-N-9 bow silos would have been.
      Wiki info is wrong on that one. That is pair of Iglas from the double SA-N-10 launcher.

      Comment

      • Austin
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2003
        • 6506

        Originally posted by El_Indigo View Post
        450 km for land targets is probably limited by INF Treaty. The 350 km for sea targets is probably for Lo-Lo altitude for Onyx.

        As was mentioned previously

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWZCNaZpeE

        at low altitude the range was no less then 340 km quoted by official at 0:45 on.

        Then there was this

        https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140319/1000160934.html

        Onyx was also mentioned to have a range of 500 km as sub launched variant. ( Which I previously though and told you was likely Hi-Lo trajectory. )

        And now we have more evidence that's the case

        http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2...35410469194543

        P. Sengupta mentions this



        Now P. Sengupta isn't the greatest source but it kinda make sense.

        Further more

        https://in.rbth.com/economics/2013/0...jor_edge_28201

        As you see Onyx been also mentioned being capable of more then 600 km range (No doubt Hi-Hi)
        By now Onyx range can be calculated based on information available.

        Hi-Hi - 600 km ( flying at 18 km )
        Hi-Lo - 350 km
        Lo-Lo - 150 km

        NPO_Mash mentioned recently that they are upgrading Onyx , no details were provided though.

        From Indian Brahmos Corp statement we know that Existing Brahmos using Ramjet with changes and new fuel they can achieve speed of close to Mach 5.

        http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/...pg8o7LU2N.html

        “We have a two-pronged approach to exploit the hypersonic realm – upgrading the existing BrahMos engine to achieve Mach 5+ speed in three to five years and simultaneously working on a pure hypersonic engine to breach Mach 7 in five-seven years,” Mishra said.
        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

        Comment

        • ijozic
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • May 2014
          • 613

          Originally posted by Andraxxus View Post
          Wiki info is wrong on that one. That is pair of Iglas from the double SA-N-10 launcher.
          Yeah, it obviously isn't an SA-N-9, but where did you get an idea of SA-N-10 launchers on the Kirov class as there aren't any photos showing them nor any Kirov specs which mention them?

          But, the small doors on the structure behind the RBU launchers (where something is apparently being fired from on the photo) got me thinking that these might be some decoys and after a quick search it seems that these are in fact the decoy launchers - you can see the three small doors on the starboard side of it and perhaps four more on the port side.



          This diagram describes them as such (13 on the side diagram - ПУСКОВЫЕ УСТАНОВКИ ВЫСТРЕЛИВАЕМИХ ПОМЕХ = decoy launcher; the 13 on the bottom "top-down" diagram points incorrectly to the wrong item and it seems to have been added afterwards incorrectly):

          Last edited by ijozic; 17th November 2016, 11:18.

          Comment

          • JangBoGo
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2011
            • 1510

            Originally posted by ijozic View Post
            Yeah, it obviously isn't an SA-N-9, but where did you get an idea of SA-N-10 launchers on the Kirov class as there aren't any photos showing them nor any Kirov specs which mention them?

            But, the small doors on the structure behind the RBU launchers (where something is apparently being fired from on the photo) got me thinking that these might be some decoys and after a quick search it seems that these are in fact the decoy launchers - you can see the three small doors on the starboard side of it and perhaps four more on the port side.



            This diagram describes them as such (13 on the side diagram - ПУСКОВЫЕ УСТАНОВКИ ВЫСТРЕЛИВАЕМИХ ПОМЕХ = decoy launcher; the 13 on the bottom "top-down" diagram points incorrectly to the wrong item and it seems to have been added afterwards incorrectly):

            You understanding of the decoy launchers wasn't correct, the illustration (13) clearly points to the decoy launchers.

            The pointer shows 2 x PK-2 decoys launchers on the deck edges.
            You can have a better view of those in the pic below.




            Here on INS Vikramaditya

            Last edited by JangBoGo; 17th November 2016, 12:26. Reason: added a pic

            Comment

            • ijozic
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • May 2014
              • 613

              Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
              You understanding of the decoy launchers wasn't correct, the illustration (13) clearly points to the decoy launchers.
              The pointer shows 2 x PK-2 decoys launchers on the deck edges.
              You can have a better view of those in the pic below.
              Ah, I see, so the side illustration marking is wrong then. So, these are the PK-2 launchers then I presume. Thanks for resolving this.
              Last edited by ijozic; 17th November 2016, 13:35.

              Comment

              • El_Indigo
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jul 2006
                • 287

                Originally posted by Austin View Post
                By now Onyx range can be calculated based on information available.

                Hi-Hi - 600 km ( flying at 18 km )
                Hi-Lo - 350 km
                Lo-Lo - 150 km

                That contradicts the info available. Again we have the official word of Lo-Lo range and that is no more then 340 km. As far as upgrading Onyx it'll probably have the same upgrades as Uran and kalibr.

                Comment

                • Andraxxus
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 953

                  Originally posted by ijozic View Post
                  Yeah, it obviously isn't an SA-N-9, but where did you get an idea of SA-N-10 launchers on the Kirov class as there aren't any photos showing them nor any Kirov specs which mention them?
                  Yeah they are PK-2 launchers. I stand corrected. Just by looking at the picture, and judging by the actual size of the missiles, For a second I've thought they were Iglas, it was 5:30 at night when I posted it. Igla launchers, 12,7 guns etc are not always included in the specs. I assumed that was the case, I was wrong.

                  Comment

                  • ijozic
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • May 2014
                    • 613

                    Originally posted by Andraxxus View Post
                    Yeah they are PK-2 launchers. I stand corrected. Just by looking at the picture, and judging by the actual size of the missiles, For a second I've thought they were Iglas, it was 5:30 at night when I posted it. Igla launchers, 12,7 guns etc are not always included in the specs. I assumed that was the case, I was wrong.
                    Ah, I see, you were referring to the handheld ones, not those on some launcher pad (e.g. like those SA-N-5 on smaller ships).

                    Comment

                    • Y-20 Bacon
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2013
                      • 2176

                      recently the Indian auditors criticized the availability rate and reliability of the mig-29ks.
                      how about on the Russian side? any news on the success of the 29k in operation besides the recent crash?

                      Comment

                      • TR1
                        TR1
                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 9826

                        Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                        recently the Indian auditors criticized the availability rate and reliability of the mig-29ks.
                        how about on the Russian side? any news on the success of the 29k in operation besides the recent crash?
                        Too early to tell, plus the carrier deployment has too few air-frames to really say much.

                        Not sure about pilot readiness for the entire MiG-29K fleet either.
                        No sharp criticisms about availability, though that maybe because spares are domestic.
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • Austin
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 6506

                          Can some one translate this in English , this is Bastion specs , Specially the part where it says 450 km and 180-350 km

                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                          Comment

                          • Austin
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 6506

                            The altitude is 15 km and below that there is another 200 km mentioned what does it say ?
                            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                            Comment

                            • ijozic
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • May 2014
                              • 613

                              Originally posted by Austin View Post
                              The altitude is 15 km and below that there is another 200 km mentioned what does it say ?
                              15 km is the minimum firing range. If I understand correctly, up to 200 km is the maximum distance of the starting (launch?) position from the shoreline.

                              180 - 350 km is the range against naval targets, up to 450 km against land targets.
                              Last edited by ijozic; 23rd November 2016, 09:33.

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6506

                                Ok got some details from russiandefence

                                Maximum firing range against land targets: 450km
                                Maximum firing range against sea targets: from 180 to 350km
                                Minimum firing range: 15km
                                Maximum distance between missile launchers and seacoast : up to 200km
                                So from offical specs we can conclude

                                Lo-Lo Range 180 km
                                Hi-Lo Range 350 km
                                Hi-Hi Range 450 km

                                Warhead should be 200-300 kg as Indian Brahmos , I suspect it can do atleast 500-600 km range in hi-hi trajectory but limited by INF treaty
                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • TR1
                                  TR1
                                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                  • Oct 2010
                                  • 9826

                                  The 6th submarine for the BSF, Kolpino is handed over to the navy:



                                  You can see the icebreaker Arktika and the floating nuclear plant Academic Lomonosov being completed in the back (Baltisky Zavod).

                                  6 submarines from Admirality in 6 years (not including export boats):

                                  sigpic

                                  Comment

                                  • El_Indigo
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2006
                                    • 287

                                    Originally posted by Austin View Post
                                    Ok got some details from russiandefence



                                    So from offical specs we can conclude

                                    Lo-Lo Range 180 km
                                    Hi-Lo Range 350 km
                                    Hi-Hi Range 450 km

                                    Warhead should be 200-300 kg as Indian Brahmos , I suspect it can do atleast 500-600 km range in hi-hi trajectory but limited by INF treaty
                                    Yep, basicly they didn't fully fuel them up to keep the Hi-hi range to 450 km which also limits it's Hi-Lo and Lo-Lo range.

                                    Comment

                                    • TR1
                                      TR1
                                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                      • Oct 2010
                                      • 9826

                                      So, RuNavy heard about the USN and RN new ship woes, and decided to follow suit:

                                      http://flotprom.ru/2016/%D0%9F%D1%80...0%B8%D1%8F436/

                                      Admiral Essen has to be repaired @ Yantar due to propeller damage from backing up into something. Commander has been relieved.
                                      Repairs will include the replacement of one propeller and shaft-realignment.
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment

                                      • swerve
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2005
                                        • 13612

                                        Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                                        So, RuNavy heard about the USN and RN new ship woes, and decided to follow suit: ...
                                        Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                                        Justinian

                                        Comment

                                        • F-16
                                          Rank 3 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2016
                                          • 44

                                          Second Russian project 18280 intelligence ship ‘Ivan Khurs’ to be launched in 2017

                                          http://defense-watch.com/2016/11/26/...nched-in-2017/

                                          Comment

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