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  • verbatim
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2010
    • 261

    If displacement has grown to around 3400 tonnes, against a mere 5 meters in lenght, that would require a relevant growth in draught.

    That in turn would imply far greater displacement located under the waterline, and a boost in lateral stability.

    The growth in lenght could provide a greater lenght/width ratio, compensating the larger drag induced by the increase in draught, and provide greater longitudinale stability.

    The lesson behind the saga, would b an ancient one: if you need a frigate's capabilities, you need a frigate hull.

    Comment

    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6506

      Modernised Marshal Ustinov Starting Sea Trials after Repairs and Modernisation





      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • Austin
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2003
        • 6506

        So they replaced both the Radar with Fregat and Podberёzovik

        What else is part of modernisation , I recollect P-1000 Vulcan and Fort was also receiving some updates ?
        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

        Comment

        • ijozic
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • May 2014
          • 613

          Originally posted by Austin View Post
          What else is part of modernisation , I recollect P-1000 Vulcan and Fort was also receiving some updates ?
          The same illuminators for Fort and Osa-M missiles are still there as well as the AK-630's. Not much of a modernization in terms of self-defense weapon systems, it seems, unless more capable missile variants have been installed. How long are these planned to remain in service?
          Last edited by ijozic; 31st October 2016, 10:22.

          Comment

          • TR1
            TR1
            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
            • Oct 2010
            • 9826

            Ak-630s got new optical/laser mounting next to their radar, but nothing major.

            The old EC/ECW suit was taken out and replaced by analogous systems to new ships. That is mostly it in terms of visible changes.

            Internally there was a lot of replacement/repair work, but it is yet unclear what was modernized internally.
            sigpic

            Comment

            • Deino
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 4228

              Hmm ... did they ran out of paint on the front section ???
              Attached Files
              ...

              He was my North, my South, my East and West,
              My working week and my Sunday rest,
              My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
              I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

              The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
              Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
              Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
              For nothing now can ever come to any good.
              -------------------------------------------------
              W.H.Auden (1945)

              Comment

              • Stonewall
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2006
                • 451

                Some videos of the Russian Fleet in the Med are available on this twitter page:

                https://twitter.com/miladvisor

                (sorry I don't know if it's possible to place them here)

                Comment

                • TR1
                  TR1
                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 9826

                  A lot of photos from the Ivan Gren.

                  http://prokhor-tebin.livejournal.com/1053279.html
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • El_Indigo
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 287

                    Project 20380 wasn't top heavy. What it does have is structural problems. Endurance was a problem too ..mainly because there was no proper kitchen and engines being anemic.

                    It was a non the less decent ship. That got upsclled into something that it was not meant to be project 20381 and 20385.

                    Comment

                    • Marcellogo
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jun 2014
                      • 1840

                      Originally posted by Deino View Post
                      Hmm ... did they ran out of paint on the front section ???
                      No they want everybody know it's a male.

                      Comment

                      • Austin
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 6506

                        Zvyozdochka Shipyard Upgrading Russian Navy Project 971 Akula-class Submarines

                        http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...ubmarines.html

                        The Zvyozdochka Shipyard has been upgrading the Project 971 Shchuka-B-class (NATO reporting name: Akula I-class) nuclear-powered attack submarines, according to its press office. The Leopard nuclear attack submarine’s arrival to Zvyozdochka for repair in 2011 marked the era of the repair and modernization of the Project 971 boats. Today, the Volk, another ship of the class, operated by the Northern Fleet, is side by side with the Leopard in the shipyard. Their sister ships, the Bratsk and the Samara operated by the Pacific Fleet, are awaiting their turn.

                        Although Zvyozdochka has its hands full repairing and upgrading various surface ships and submarines and building a specialized vessel series for the Navy, it was chosen as the sole contractor to bring the Shchuka-B fleet up to date.

                        The thing is, it is Russia’s only shipyard able to tackle the large-scale nuclear-powered submarine modernization program. Therefore, the Navy decided to vest a part of the nuclear-powered attack submarine fleet combat readiness maintenance task with Zvyozdochka and its affiliate Nerpa. Moreover, Zvyozdochka is the shipbuilding’s most sophisticated company featuring a wealth of relevant experience in carrying out technically complex programs, e.g. the modernization of the Project 667BDRM (Delta IV-class) nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) - the mainstay of the nuclear leg of the Russian nuclear deterrent triad. These considerations explain why the Pacific Fleet’s Project 971 nuclear-powered attack submarines have arrived for the upgrade specifically to the Yagry Island-based shipyard.

                        All of them are facing both repair and heavy upgrade, after which their designation will be altered. The upgrade will cover both the systems and the hulls. The improved performance of the third-generation Project 971M nuclear-powered attack submarines will bring them close enough to the fourth-generation Project 885 Yasen-class (Severodvinsk-class) boats. Essentially, a new ship will be created in the old hull.
                        The unavoidable retirement of the second- and third-generation subs from service and the increasing obsolescence of the Project 971 ones, which service record dates back over 20 years against the backdrop of the lack of proper repairs coupled with an extremely slow commissioning of fourth-generation submarines, makes the Navy pay special attention to maintaining the current nuclear-powered attack submarine forces of its Northern and Pacific fleets.

                        The on-condition repair in recent years has been unable to overcome the growing obsolescence of the radio electronics and other equipment, and the characteristics of the weapons suite are no longer on a par with the up-to-date standards. To maintain the readiness of the nuclear-powered attack submarines, the Project 971 ones are in need of repair and modernization that includes a number of compulsory elements, according to expert opinion. The measures to be taken should include advanced control, communication, navigation, sonar, action information and other electronic systems, cutting-edge missiles and torpedoes and nuclear security, survivability, habitability, reliability and noise reduction aids.

                        The overall repair and upgrade solutions will extend the class’s service life by 15 years. Since their service life equals a quarter of a century in case of supportive repair alone, the 15 years until the commissioning of enough fourth-generation nuclear attack submarines is a sufficient guarantee of the readiness of the attack submarine fleet.

                        To handle a large-scale job like that, even the shipyard, which had held a sterling record as nuclear-powered attack submarine repairer for decades, had to do a serious homework ranging from the design records coordination with the design bureau to the reconstruction of its manufacturing facilities. The routine approach ‘first the design, then the construction’ has been reversed, with ships coming for repair while the shipyard continues the R&D and re-equipment despite the clearance to proceed with the contract. Due to the hurry to fulfil the overall task, the shipyard has to lead the design bureau that has to modify the design documentation urgently, spending a lot of time on problems calling for quick resolution. The design bureau and shipyard being out of sync could not but result in the program’s slipping behind schedule, and this is only one of the aspects complicating the upgrade of the Project 971 nuclear-powered attack submarines.

                        The Project 971 class is made up of third-generation boats embodying the then most advanced scientific and technical solutions. The increase in the automation of controlling the systems led to a cut in the crew strength and a tighter layout of the submarine’s interior. The approach to building the Project 971 submarines has switched to modular design, with complete modules placed inside the hull. Certainly, this makes the complicated upgrade even more difficult, necessitating out-of-the-box concepts for implementing the program.

                        Taking the Leopard for example, one can imagine the difficulties facing Zvyozdochka. Once the dismounting of her equipment and hull structures and the hull and system repair determination began, the company encountered the sluggishness of designers dragging their feet on the design and production records release for months. The production and repair of the equipment by the original equipment manufacturers (OEM) poses another problem characteristic of not only these submarines, unfortunately. Many OEMs have ceased to exist with the collapse of the Soviet Union. The delays in the delivery of basic equipment and spares, tools and accessories needed for the repair have become a pain in the neck to Zvyozdochka.

                        The work is under way, nevertheless. The foundations are being laid for the equipment and for the testing of hull elements and ballast tanks. The electric installation work is in full swing onboard the Leopard after a long delay. The current pace of the work and equipment delivery indicates that the order will be fulfilled on schedule. The analysis of the errors made while repairing and upgrading the lead ship of the series will speed up the return of the remainder to service by far.

                        To do the job on time, the company will also have to invest in the re-equipment and reconstruction of Zvyozdochka production facilities. In addition, the shipyard has had to introduce a huge number of examples of support equipment, including benches for testing and calibrating the systems and mechanisms and repair tools. All of these were supposed to be tested on the Leopard. Figures show the scale of preparations made. Since the preparations for and the conduct of the dismounting of the sub’s equipment, more than 1,400 items of the hardware intended in support of the Project 971 submarines’ upgrade have been manufactured to date, which is half of the total number required. The development and commissioning of new tests stands continues, for which purpose more research and design institutes have been contracted.

                        As for the infrastructure, the reconstruction and building of several production and support facilities of the shipyard are in progress under the third-generation nuclear-powered attack submarine program within the framework of the 2018 federal program. The reconstruction of the low-pressure boiler room and Shop No. 10 have been completed and the re-equipment of Shop. No. 15 - the slipways of the shipyard - is being carried out at the expense of billions of rubles set aside by the government and provided by the shipyard out of pocket. Several facilities more are being built or re-equipped, including the hydraulics (the deep-water and shallow quays in the first place), ship lift and transport/transfer facilities, and screw processing shop.

                        Unfortunately, it is this combination of factors (delay in the technical re-equipment program that is time-consuming and labor-intensive indeed, preliminary design and organizational work drawbacks, and slippage behind schedule by subcontractors) that remain the cause of the delay in executing government-placed orders for the repair and upgrade of the Project 971 nuclear-powered attack submarines.

                        The situation is anything but new to Zvyozdochka that encountered the same problems when it launched the Project 667BRDM nuclear-powered submarines’ shipyard repair of many years. At the time, the initial difficulties were dealt with, and the repair of the strategic submarines then went like clockwork. There are reasons to believe that the Project 971 family’s repair and modernization will see their problems ironed out and that the upgraded Project 971M submarines will return to service on the dot, according to the press office of the Zvyozdochka Shipyard.
                        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                        Comment

                        • ijozic
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • May 2014
                          • 613

                          Does anybody know if there's a good reference somewhere on the exact weapons fit of the Kirov class members?

                          For instance, I keep seeing mentioned that e.g. Kalinin/Nakhimov and Andropov/Pyotr Velikiy (and even Lazarev/Frunze sometimes) have the SA-N-9 launchers installed in place of the SS-N-14 Silex launchers (there's even a photo on Wiki of a supposed firing of one, but the location definitely looks off). But, all I see are these flat panels where these launchers should be installed (kind of like the rear deck empty panels on Frunze and Kalinin/Nakhimov apparently) and an apparent empty spot on the tower where I suppose the radar unit should go.

                          So, am I correct in assuming that none of the units ever had the front SA-N-9 set installed (plus that only Pyotr Velikiy had the rear set installed)? If not, where are the missiles and the front radar unit (e.g. like the one clearly visible on the rear superstructure of Pyotr Velikiy)? Thanks.
                          Last edited by ijozic; 14th November 2016, 22:37.

                          Comment

                          • TR1
                            TR1
                            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 9826

                            Peter the Great has the rear Kinzhal battery set up, never got the front one.

                            Nakhimov after refit is still a question mark, I don't recall seeing confirmation if it will get modernized Kinzhal, or Pantsir-SM, or what.
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • halloweene
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2012
                              • 4351

                              According to France Info radio, russian fighter crashed while attempting to land on carrier in mediterranean sea. No casualty.

                              Edit : Mig 29K http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...143326/?spt=su
                              Last edited by halloweene; 14th November 2016, 20:38.

                              Comment

                              • TR1
                                TR1
                                http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 9826

                                Sovershenny inching towards completion:





                                Sister-ship Stoikky, @ Severnaya on the other side of the country. Not sure why it is outside:





                                Kasatonov nearby finishing up:

                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                • ijozic
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • May 2014
                                  • 613

                                  Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                                  Peter the Great has the rear Kinzhal battery set up, never got the front one.
                                  Yeah, thought as much because it's obvious from the photos, but was puzzled with all the references still mentioning these as being installed. There's even a photo on the Tor wiki claiming to be an SA-N-9 launch from the bow, but the location is obviously ahead of where the SA-N-9 bow silos would have been.
                                  Last edited by ijozic; 15th November 2016, 10:36.

                                  Comment

                                  • Austin
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Oct 2003
                                    • 6506

                                    Bastion System Range was reveled by Shoigu in briefing to Putin

                                    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3785071

                                    In addition, there also put coastal complexes" Bastion " who have closed almost all the coast and today these complexes, we are able to destroy both sea and ground targets ", - the minister said, adding that it was a distance of 350 kilometers in the sea and nearly 450 kilometers on land.
                                    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                    Comment

                                    • Deino
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 4228

                                      Upppsss ! Glad to hear at least the pilot is ok.

                                      http://www.combataircraft.net/2016/1...mediterranean/

                                      ... also confirmed by
                                      http://www.interfax.ru/world/536992


                                      Deino
                                      ...

                                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                                      -------------------------------------------------
                                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                                      Comment

                                      • El_Indigo
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jul 2006
                                        • 287

                                        Originally posted by Austin View Post
                                        Bastion System Range was reveled by Shoigu in briefing to Putin

                                        http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3785071

                                        In addition, there also put coastal complexes" Bastion " who have closed almost all the coast and today these complexes, we are able to destroy both sea and ground targets ", - the minister said, adding that it was a distance of 350 kilometers in the sea and nearly 450 kilometers on land.

                                        450 km for land targets is probably limited by INF Treaty. The 350 km for sea targets is probably for Lo-Lo altitude for Onyx.

                                        As was mentioned previously

                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWZCNaZpeE

                                        at low altitude the range was no less then 340 km quoted by official at 0:45 on.

                                        Then there was this

                                        https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140319/1000160934.html

                                        Onyx was also mentioned to have a range of 500 km as sub launched variant. ( Which I previously though and told you was likely Hi-Lo trajectory. )

                                        And now we have more evidence that's the case

                                        http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2...35410469194543

                                        P. Sengupta mentions this

                                        The BrahMos-1 has a range of 550km if all its fuel tanks are filled up. But now all those that have already been produced have a range of only 290km, meaning half their fuel tanks are left empty. Once they go for relifing 10 years after their service-entry, these fuel tanks will be filled up & then all of them will have 550km-range.
                                        Now P. Sengupta isn't the greatest source but it kinda make sense.

                                        Further more

                                        https://in.rbth.com/economics/2013/0...jor_edge_28201

                                        As you see Onyx been also mentioned being capable of more then 600 km range (No doubt Hi-Hi)

                                        Comment

                                        • F/A-XX
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Apr 2011
                                          • 206

                                          When did Russia start acquiring actual production MiG-29Ks? I thought they had no intention to do so. Are they already operational aboard Kutnetsov?

                                          Comment

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