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    Indian Navy : News & Discussion - V

    Old Thread

    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...105111&page=24
    Last edited by Austin; 13th May 2012, 09:38.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    #2
    INS Teg at Hamburg ( via BR )

    INS Teg 01

    INS Teg 02

    INS Teg 03[/quote]
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    Comment


      #3

      Source: http://mr.shipbuilding.ru/magazine/n2/kopanev/ (in Russian)

      Prospects for the development of CICS for ships
      small and medium displacement on the basis of "demand-M"

      The main problem of creating a CICS for ships of small and medium-displacement based on the experience in the development of a new generation.
      Shivalik CIC(?)

      http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/...-shivalik.html
      Last edited by Wanshan; 13th May 2012, 23:03.

      Comment


        #4
        The weapon-sensor fit of the Shivalik is controlled through a Combat Management System called ‘CMS-17’, designed and developed by the Indian Navy and manufactured by Bharat Electronics. The system allows seamless integration of the ship’s systems with the weapons and sensors of other ships in the fleet, thus enabling the concept of ‘Co-operative Engagement Capability’ (CES). With its ability to detect and engage surface, air and sub-surface assets of the enemy at extended ranges, the ship represents very significant combat-potential.
        http://www.defstrat.com/exec/frmArti...s.aspx?DID=241

        the Indian Navy has a captive centre of excellence in the Weapons & Electronics Systems Engineering Establishment (WESEE),
        ...
        it designed and developed the EMCCA computer-aided action information system (CAAIS) for the Project 16A FFGs and Project 15 DDGs, and was followed by the EMDINA family of combat management systems (CMS) for the Project 17 FFGs, Project 15A DDGs and Project 28 ASW corvettes. Both the EMCCA and EMDINA were developed in collaboration with TATA Power’s Strategic Electronics Division (SED) under the WESEE’s Project MECCA and Project MEDINA. The three Project 17 FFGs have on board the CMS-17 (developed under Project MEDINA) centralised combat management system, built by [Bharat Electronics Limited] BEL’s Ghaziabad-based facility.
        http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/...rtunities.html
        http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/200...ect-11356.html

        The EMDINA CMS is a follow-on to the EMCCA Computer Aided Action Information System (CAAIS), also co-developed by WESEE and TATA Power, under Project MECCA and is presently on board the three Project 16 FFGs, three Project 16A FFGs and three Project 15 DDGs
        http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/200...-warships.html

        All previous warships, including the Delhi-class DDGs and Talwar-class FFGs, do not have CICs, instead they have up to five 'citadels' on board, housing systems like the EMCCA. The Project 17 FFG, on the other hand, has only one citadel, which is the CIC, and is called EMDINA
        http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/200...-detailed.html

        See also here
        Last edited by Wanshan; 13th May 2012, 23:47.

        Comment


          #5
          ^^^ thanks man for digging it all. I'd missed that blog entry. But after reading it, I'm little more confused than earlier.

          First of all, is EMCCA = MECCA & EMDINA = MEDINA?

          From the above this is what I summarize
          P15, P16 and P16A have the computer-aided action information system (CAAIS) developed from project MECCA (or EMCCA??). i.e they come from the same family. Also, this MECCA/EMCCA is not a true CMS and only aids the operators by aiding them in taking the actions based on the solutions generated by the computers (?). Where as,

          P17, P28 & 15A use/are to use the CMS/CIC developed under the project MEDINA (or EMDINA??) which is a further development from the MECCA family and a true CMS. It also means that CMS-17 on P17 is just one member of this MEDINA family.

          Am I right till here?


          It still is confusing...

          In the below para, it is mentioned that P15 Delhi class only have many 'citadels' housing systems like MECCA (?) and the P17 have only one 'citadel' which is the CIC, called the EMDINA (or MEDINA??)

          Does it mean to say that P15 & Talwar class does not have all the systems integrated into a single combat control room/space like the P17?
          All previous warships, including the Delhi-class DDGs and Talwar-class FFGs, do not have CICs, instead they have up to five 'citadels' on board, housing systems like the EMCCA. The Project 17 FFG, on the other hand, has only one citadel, which is the CIC, and is called EMDINA
          Delhi class is older than the first batch of pr.11356 and the site does mention the Talwar class ships to have CIC. So how he came to the conclusion that CIC is not present in the pr.11356, I don't know.

          Trebovanije-M Combat information control system (CICS) is intended for ship (project 11356) weapons and radio-electronic armament combat control processes automation at the time of prosecution of combat activities both independently and consisting of a group of ships as an escort ship.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Wanshan View Post
            http://mr.shipbuilding.ru/images/docs/645.jpg
            Source: http://mr.shipbuilding.ru/magazine/n2/kopanev/ (in Russian)
            can you provide a translate to the article?
            The site as a whole is not properly displaying the text and some what distorted in my browser.

            Comment


              #7
              http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attac...hp?item=277573
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                ^^^ thanks man for digging it all. I'd missed that blog entry. But after reading it, I'm little more confused than earlier.

                First of all, is EMCCA = MECCA & EMDINA = MEDINA?
                As I read it:
                EMDINA is a follow-on system to EMCCA
                EMCCA was developed under project MECCA
                EMDINA was developed under project MEDINA
                (i.e. project names are anagrammes of system names)

                Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                From the above this is what I summarize
                P15, P16 and P16A have the computer-aided action information system (CAAIS) developed from project MECCA (or EMCCA??). i.e they come from the same family. Also, this MECCA/EMCCA is not a true CMS and only aids the operators by aiding them in taking the actions based on the solutions generated by the computers (?).
                I think EMCCA is a system that automates distribution of sensor data to various subsystems and cues them on to target, with weapons control divided by function: a computer that functions in the role of what the Russians call 'second captain' or 'second admiral'. Western equivalent is Combat Data System.

                For a thorough discussion of 'second captain'/CDS, see: http://books.google.nl/books?id=l-Dz...tem%22&f=false

                Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                Where as,

                P17, P28 & 15A use/are to use the CMS/CIC developed under the project MEDINA (or EMDINA??) which is a further development from the MECCA family and a true CMS. It also means that CMS-17 on P17 is just one member of this MEDINA family.

                Am I right till here?
                Yes, I follow and agree. The implication is that there are CMS-15A and CMS-28 variants

                Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                It still is confusing...

                In the below para, it is mentioned that P15 Delhi class only have many 'citadels' housing systems like MECCA (?) and the P17 have only one 'citadel' which is the CIC, called the EMDINA (or MEDINA??)
                You probably have areas for certain system e.g. one or more consoles for AAW weapons and associated sensors groupd together, dito for ASW, dito for ASuW. Realize that e.g. SA-N-9 SYSTEM comprises missile firing unit(s), but also a control unit sporting distinct rotating search/track radar and planar missile guidance radar. Likewise Kashtan system: one or more firing units with on mount sensors plus a dedicated search/track radar. Each system is cued from e.g. a main radar like Fregat M2EM. Weapons control is grouped functionally, so you have an AAW citadel which is 'in charge' of both the mentioned systems (e.g. on Adm. Chabanenko/Udaloy II). That is how I read it: citadels represent functional control groups (AAW, ASuW, ASW, EW and ?) In a two-tier system, you may control a function across several ships. This would be the case in flagships.

                Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                Does it mean to say that P15 & Talwar class does not have all the systems integrated into a single combat control room/space like the P17?
                That is what it sound like.

                Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                Delhi class is older than the first batch of pr.11356 and the site does mention the Talwar class ships to have CIC. So how he came to the conclusion that CIC is not present in the pr.11356, I don't know.
                See the earlier link to The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998 by Norman Friedman: on the next page, it discusses Krivak III CDS: this has a fully integrated command system and data bus. It is now a federated CDS using LAN's.

                Functionally seperated weapons control can be a drawback when you have a multidimensional playing field e.g. a sub launching an anti-ship missile. Sonar might detect the launch but can it warn AAW? Radar may pick up the missile once it is airborne, but will the information on the initial location also be passed to ASW?
                Last edited by Wanshan; 15th May 2012, 20:26.

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                  can you provide a translate to the article?
                  The site as a whole is not properly displaying the text and some what distorted in my browser.
                  It is off the air. Probably too many visits all at once ... give it a rest a few days, then we'll try again.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    [TG for cached versions!]

                    Prospects for the development of CICS for ships small and medium displacement on the basis of "demand-M".

                    Kopanev AA
                    Professor, Director General of SPC "Meridian"

                    Muzychenko ON,
                    Professor, Chief Specialist

                    The main problem of creating a CICS for ships of small and medium-displacement based on the experience in the development of a new generation. The forecast of the prospects for their development.

                    Scientific-Production Company "Meridian" has developed a combat information management system (CICS) "The demand-M" a new generation which has successfully passed the state tests. The system is designed to automate the management of the use of military weapons systems and electronic means of ships small and medium sizes. She is currently installed on ships of Project 11356 (Fig. 1).

                    CICS 'demand-M "provides the following main tasks:
                    • Collection, processing, displaying and documenting information on the tactical situation from all sources of information, the ship and the ship's helicopter and ship connections;
                    • Collection, processing and display status information, modes of operation, availability of ammunition systems and ship systems;
                    • management of air defense ship means to solve problems of self-defense and collective defense ships compounds;
                    • management of complex rocket, artillery and torpedoes the ship to sea targets;
                    • management of combat-ship anti-submarine and antisubmarine weapons use;
                    • planning and management using a helicopter for solving light air, surface and underwater conditions, tasks, anti-submarine warfare;
                    • navigation and tactical maneuvering, the safe divergence from surface targets, and swimming in the joint compound, monitoring the passage of the ship route;
                    • training of personnel for the management of all types of weapons the ship in a different tactical situation;
                    • documenting information about the condition and operation of combat weapons systems, tactical situation, the actions of the operators.


                    CICS 'demand-M "is an open distributed adaptive computing system built on the basis of modern computing facilities in the local network. The structure and composition of the system shown in Fig. 2. The software complex is constructed on the basis of real time operating system QNX. Command and control tasks in functions are formed in specialized software systems.

                    Pair with a set of weapons systems on the ship is carried out on digital channel - coupling devices such as T-119 and T-190, as well as to receive the primary radar information - T-181 instrument.

                    Central computer - T-162 devices provide a solution to computational problems and work with a distributed database system, placed in these devices.

                    In the complete set in the CICS provides eight workstations (AWS) commander in the SCE and the HSS, defense management, TPS, RTS, control anti-surface targets, flight control and technical control.

                    For cartographic information from the card-server system includes a local area network Ethernet 10/100 Base.

                    CICS provides a means of documenting the automatic operator selection and documentation of information with the ability to playback on ARM indicator (normal, acceleration and deceleration modes), and selection process according to various criteria for the analysis of systems and operator actions. Exchange of information within the system is carried out on a local area network.

                    Depending on the specific project requirements, the ship of the instrumentation may vary.

                    In the development of computer equipment used by foreign and Russian companies. The basis of the hardware devices CICS "Demand-M" make IBM-compatible computer firms "Advantech" and "Octagon Systems". Implemented technical solutions and electronic components used ensure high system performance. It has a high reliability provided by the use of modern components, as well as redundant equipment, reconfiguration of the possibility of taking into account the technical condition of the individual elements and the autonomous maintenance of individual devices while maintaining the efficiency of the system. All workstations are interchangeable and can be quickly rebuilt to solve any problems that increase the reliability and survivability of military systems.

                    ARM (Fig. 3) - is a trehmashinny complex based on the Intel Pentium and Pentium III, which consists of:
                    • display device and input information, performed on a color fluorescent display with touch screen for dialogue with the operator;
                    • tactical situation display device and the radar data in the form of a flat panel display color liquid crystal display with a diagonal of 18 "and a resolution of 1280 1024;
                    • remote device to display the technical condition of the ship and its REV weapons systems, made on a color fluorescent display with a diagonal of 10.4 "and a resolution of 640 480;
                    • Trackball trackball-type;
                    • Functional Keyboard dialog interaction operator with CICS.


                    ARM provides a mapping tactical situation on the background map information, as well as the status of weapons systems and the availability of ammunition ships, combat plans for their use, management teams, and various forms and other information in graphical and tabular form.

                    Software and hardware for technical diagnosis of the complex provides automatic control of technical state of its power-up and during operation of the main purposes, detection and fault indication at the time of their occurrence, up to TEF, as well as issuing recommendations for its elimination, including the location of the failed module in the spare parts .

                    The presence in the regime of "Training" allows for training of personnel, to maintain high combat readiness of the ship.

                    System, "Requirement-M" compared with the existing domestic systems of similar purpose has unique features, which consists in the fact that:
                    • significantly increased capabilities of the system for displaying and processing information about the tactical situation, improve the quality of information processing, the use of new effective ways and means of display for high visibility and quick perception of the operators. Displays information about the tactical situation is against the backdrop of electronic navigation maps. There are flexible management structure and modes of display information;
                    • simplify the work of operators, due to more effective ways of displaying information, automate processes, training management solutions that ensure their automatic implementation and execution of automated control, use of sensory input commands; greatly expanded opportunities for solving complex air defense ship.
                    • Provided a stand-alone and centralized use of AIA in a fully automatic, semiautomatic and manual modes for solving the ship self-defense and collective defense ships compound. The quality control problems, several times reduced the time to solve them, which leads to a significant increase in the effectiveness of air defense ship. Dead time of the system in solving air defense (from receipt of the goal before the issuance of the CO) is not more than 1 s and can be reduced by several times;
                    • greatly expanded capabilities of the system for management of the ship weapons to solve problems against surface targets and objectives ASW, improved quality and reduced time to address them;
                    • the system has ample opportunity to address navigation problems, problems of tactical maneuvering, provides continuous monitoring of safety of navigation and traffic on the route;
                    • improved mass-dimensional characteristics (mass of the fully loaded 1600 kg max.), reduced power consumption (power consumption is not more than 1.2 kW), increased reliability (MTBF of at least 1,500 hours), the reliability of operation and damage control system ;
                    • the system has ample capacity to provide training of personnel in a tactical situation, completely imitates real fighting.


                    In solving the problems of arms control ship CICS "Demand-M" provides for the formation on the basis set on the ship systems and weapon systems of functional circuits light air, surface and underwater conditions, air defense units, ASW, anti-surface targets, management of the ship by helicopter.


                    The main problem of creating CICS at the present stage

                    This provides a comprehensive use of information from all sources for any of the ship's weapons systems, which significantly increases the combat potential and combat survivability of the contours. Within each circuit CICS provides centralized management in automatic, semiautomatic and manual modes, by all means ship and their optimal use for the task with the required efficiency. In the process of management is taken into account the state of each system and its combat capabilities in the solution of the problem and determined the optimum composition of and a variant of the solution.

                    During the development and testing of the system "requirement-M" revealed a number of problems (scientific, technical and organizational measures) to the solution of which rely heavily on the effectiveness of the combat use of the ship's weapons systems, the cost of individual systems, and the entire ship's weapons, as well as future directions and prospects for the development of CICS. The main of these problems include:
                    • lack of domestic components, ensuring the creation of combat information and control systems that meet modern tactical and technical and operational requirements. In particular this applies to computer equipment and information display devices;
                    • lack of information and technical conjugation of existing weapons systems and ship systems, which leads to significant problems when interfacing with CICS and organizations sharing in the CICS formed military units;
                    • autonomous sources of information on air, surface and underwater conditions, the disparity range detection performance characteristics of weapons systems requirements of the ship, lack of automatic control mode of operation and sharing. Under these conditions, CICS is actually assigned the task of uniting all the information of the ship into a single functional complex lighting conditions (FKOO), forming a unified picture of the air, surface and underwater conditions, as well as the use of information from any source in the interests of all the ship's weapons systems. The task is complicated by the significant difference in the accuracy characteristics of systems, a time of renewal of targeted information, as well as the lack of classification of types of targets;
                    • inadequacy of national air defense system of the second generation to work in a centralized mode. Most of the existing ship's air defense system designed as a stand-alone systems, including their own means of detecting or processing of primary radar data. Characteristics of detection are well aligned with the characteristics of the remaining elements of the complex and above all in the organization of dopoiska goals and capture them for support means support complex or its homing missiles. This makes it difficult to use for targeting information from other sources, the ship having different accuracy characteristics as compared with their means of detection systems, and reduces their effectiveness. To ensure the efficient use of facilities in a centralized mode of refinement is required. In addition, the existing air defense system does not provide for the automatic solution of problems of security of ships and aircraft connection with the use of weapons;
                    • lack of effective means of simulating most of the existing weapons systems, which complicates the testing of their interaction with CICS and other systems and complexes of the ship, does not allow for debugging and testing, as well as joint training of personnel control loop arms ship free fundraising software to create the required tactical situation . For this reason, the joint test of all systems of contours in a complex tactical situation is not possible, which significantly affects the quality of castings CICS software and weapon systems;
                    • Many of the existing system of the ship's weapons are not effective means of documenting combat operations either do not have any. This makes it extremely time consuming, and in many cases impossible, the analysis of the system complicates the task of interfacing with other systems, testing, objective assessment of the actions of personnel. The problem is further complicated by the complex inspection and test systems consisting of circuits.

                    Testing of CICS 'demand-M "on the ship, etc. 11 356 and showed the possibility of an objective need for the integration of systems and complexes of the ship, and above all control systems, and antisubmarine weapons impact. This is due to duplication of most of the problems solved and these CICS systems management arms in solving problems and the PLO against surface targets, the presence of a significant resource of computing power that ensures the solution of complex problems and creating conditions for a further substantial increase. There are ample opportunities to integrate CICS systems sharing the use of weapons (SVS) and the joint navigation systems. Very difficult at this stage of the integration of CICS with the AIA ship, due to the specifics of their construction and operation.


                    Prospects for the development of CICS

                    Further development of CICS will be determined by several factors, technical, organizational and economic.

                    Quick update hardware components of computers and information display devices presents a significant opportunity to improve CICS towards improving the technical and operational characteristics of systems that use more advanced and sophisticated methods of information processing and control algorithms for weapon ship, expanding the list of problems solved by CICS. Ample opportunities are to improve ways of displaying information.

                    Significant impact on the development prospects of CICS will provide the changes in the systems themselves and the ship's weapons complexes, and their features and functionality, since they largely determine the content and the list of problems solved by CICS. However, emerging in the current situation with the development of advanced weapons systems, ship fundamental changes in this area is not expected.

                    Under present conditions a significant impact on the development of CICS will provide availability of orders on their development and delivery for both domestic and foreign customers. Lack of funding for new developments may cause, and in some cases has led to the loss of scientific and technological capacity and the collapse of the development teams. The most serious situation is emerging in the scientific and technical personnel who can undertake the development of modern methods and algorithms for data processing and control systems, ship weapons and tactics they use.

                    However, the greatest impact on the prospects and directions of development of CICS are currently providing organizational factors and, above all, developed in the domestic industry and the organization Navy orders and financing the development and delivery of the ships weapons systems. This procedure causes the formation of a set of ship weapons systems and systems designed for individual orders, and in many cases are self-contained. In this case it becomes difficult to solve the optimization problem of weapons ship, and the more the system "ship-to-arms." The problem is complicated and objective disinterest in existing conditions, both developers and relevant agencies ordering the Navy to conduct the course on the integration of naval weapons systems, as well as the complexity of integrated systems solutions to the issue of accountability for the use of weapons.

                    Given the above, further development of CICS can be predicted in the following areas:

                    improvement of the hardware, providing a further reduction in weight and size characteristics of the apparatus and its power consumption, reliability and stability of the combat system, improved testability and maintainability, increased convenience and simplification of maintenance;
                    rapid growth in hardware performance, capacity of the display and enter information that will improve methods and increase the visibility of display information, to increase its volume, while ensuring a good perception of the operator;
                    improved algorithms for data processing and control ship weapons systems;
                    further increase the degree of automation control systems and complexes of the ship and increase the efficiency of their use;
                    expanding list of features and problems solved by CICS;
                    gradual integration and partial unification of hardware with individual weapons systems ship.
                    When you save the existing organization and procedures for financing development of weapon systems and vehicles will be stored above problems, and especially the lack of integration between systems and complexes of the ship. Moreover, due to the increasing capabilities of hardware redundancy to increase in a broad range of management tasks in the CICS and mating systems and complexes. This will increases the cost of armaments of ships, increasing its total size and weight characteristics and power consumption, degrade the timing characteristics of the circuits and to restrain the growth efficiency of firing systems. The process of integration with other CICS systems and complexes of the ship will be very slow.

                    If you change the approach to organization design and construction of the ship's weapons systems, CICS functions can change significantly. At present we can consider two possible directions of such changes.

                    The first is to move towards the creation of circuits that solve specific problems (lighting circuit of the air, surface and underwater conditions, the contours of air defense, ASW, anti-surface ship and helicopter control). With this approach, CICS functions will vary greatly and primarily related to ensuring the captain and other officers information about the tactical situation, the actions of the functional units to address the problems of combat, the challenges of decision support information to combat use of weapons and maneuvering the ship, battle planning action, transfer of command and the commander in making the appropriate contours mezhkonturnogo ensure information sharing and communication circuits. The volume of direct management tasks weapons systems will ship, apparently, reduced substantially.

                    The second direction is to move towards a single integrated system of arms ship-optimized solutions for a certain range of military tasks, and involving the full integration of all information assets and weapons systems. If you choose this direction of naval weapons systems would occur integration of CICS systems and weapons control systems ship in a single system. This can provide significant improvement in performance throughout the ship and weapons systems to reduce the cost of production, but would complicate the design. It will also require a significant change throughout the organization develop systems ship weapons.

                    But down in the current economic situation, the state organizations, developers and manufacturers of naval weapons, as well as changes in the structure of the Ministry of Defense does not allow to predict any significant changes in organization and approach to the creation of the ship's weapons systems.

                    Conclusion Conclusion
                    Currently, the most expedient is to further the development of CICS to implement on their basis of centralized control mode of existing and emerging weapons systems as the main mode of NK combat use of the ship. At the same time, as a backup control mode it is advisable to maintain stand-alone modes of operation of weapons systems NC.

                    The validity of this conclusion is illustrated by successful tests of the brain pr.11356 ship on which the CICS "demand-M," which implements the above algorithm of management of the Tax Code, forming complexes of the ship's systems and circuits of lighting conditions, air defense, ASW, anti-surface targets and management helicopter, carrying out centralized control of all weapons systems and ship them to optimal use in combat missions.

                    System, "Requirement-M" has a high speed and provides control of the ship's weapons in real time, eliminating the inefficiencies of individual weapons systems, and significantly increases the efficiency of the use of all weapons of the ship through the optimal management of individual funds. Analysis of its technical characteristics, as well as upgrading features shows that the CICS "Demand-M" in a position to meet all the requirements of both domestic and foreign customers for the foreseeable future. In addition, it created with the design of technological advance can significantly reduce the cost of CICS for arming any vessels of medium and small tonnage, that in the current economic environment is extremely important.

                    Literature Literature

                    A. A. Kopanev AA "Demand-M" - a new generation of automated control systems / / Military Parade. - 2000. - 2000. - № 5 (41). - S. 54.

                    Two. Two. Baranov, MN, Korzh, IG Marine radio-electronic surveillance systems: the problems of the late XX century to century XXI / / Marine electronics. - 2002. - 2002. - № 1. - S. 24.

                    Three. Three. Prospects of improving Nikoltsev electronic equipment of ships and their weapons / / Military Parade. - 2000. - 2000. - № 5 (41). - P.48.

                    4. 4. Baranov, MN Electronics for the ship or the ship for electronics: with today's challenges in the XXI century / / St. Petersburg Journal of Electronics. - 1996. - 1996. - № 1. - On 38.

                    Five. Five. Labutin AI Fedorov, PG, SR Komarov Integrated bridge systems / / Marine electronics. - 2002. - 2002. - № 1. - S. 16.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Strategic Karwar naval base set for major expansion

                      NEW DELHI: With the mammoth aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya slated to reach Indian shores early next year, the government is scrambling to launch the long-delayed expansion of the strategic Karwar naval base in coastal Karnataka at a cost of around Rs 13,000 crore.

                      The Phase-IIA expansion of Karwar base, which gives the country both strategic depth and operational flexibility on the western seaboard, is now being sent to the Cabinet Committee on Security for the final nod after defence minister A K Antony approved it last week, top sources said.

                      Defence secretary Shashikant Sharma visited Karwar recently to get a firsthand look at the naval base, which can currently base 11 major warships and 10 smaller ships after Phase-I completion at a cost of Rs 2,629 crore.

                      Navy will be able to berth 32 major warships and submarines, and various other ships including 10 of the 80 fast-interceptor craft (FICs) to be acquired for coastal security force Sagar Prahari Bal, after Phase-IIA is completed by 2018-19.

                      INS Vikramaditya, or the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov being refitted by Russia for $2.33 billion, will be inducted much before that. With the congested Mumbai harbour not capable of handling INS Vikramaditya, some warships may have to be shifted out from Karwar to accommodate the carrier.

                      The six Scorpene submarines, being built at Mazagon Docks for Rs 23,562 crore and slated for induction in the 2015-2020 timeframe, will also be housed at Karwar. With its natural cover and depth of water, the base is ideal for stealthy submarine operations.

                      Karwar is India's third major naval base after Mumbai and Visakhapatnam on the west coast, while Pakistan already has five at Gwadar, Ormara, Karachi, Pasni and Jiwani.

                      Under Phase-II, Karwar will get an airbase, armament depot, dockyard complex and missile silos, apart from additional jetties, berthing and anchorage facilities. The eventual aim is to base 50 frontline warships at Karwar after Phase-IIB is completed.

                      This is critical for strategic needs since the Navy is steaming ahead on its modernization path with 44 warships, six Scorpene submarines, 95 FICs and 106 smaller ships like barges, tugs and vessels already on order.

                      In tune with the "maritime capability perspective plan'', another 45 warships are in the pipeline. These include six stealth submarines, seven stealth frigates, 16 coastal anti-submarine vessels, four massive landing platform docks and eight mine counter-measure vessels.

                      Overall, as first reported by TOI, Navy's ongoing conventional warship, submarine and maritime aircraft acquisition programme as well as proposed projects will together cost well over Rs 3,00,000 crore over the next 15 years.

                      On the strategic front, Navy plans to have three SSBNs (nuclear-powered submarines with long-range nuclear missiles) and six SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) in the long term. The first SSBN INS Arihant will become operational in first half of the next year.
                      http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/13159502.cms

                      Quite a few details..Karwar getting missile silos?what missile I wonder..
                      PEOPLE.FIRST.MISSION.ALWAYS.
                      Have a good one..

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by rayrubik View Post
                        http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/13159502.cms

                        Quite a few details..Karwar getting missile silos?what missile I wonder..
                        Beautiful place. Lots of hills, cloudy, dense forest cover and tress over 30-50 meters tall. Would certainly limit the number of satellites that can keep track of the activities there.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by rayrubik View Post
                          http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/13159502.cms

                          Quite a few details..Karwar getting missile silos?what missile I wonder..
                          .....it has to be the Brahmos. I don't think it is going to be silos, has to be mobile TELs.

                          Comment


                            #15
                            A naval base getting missile silo's .... my first thoughts are SAMs rather than anything else.

                            Comment


                              #16
                              Silos... perhaps as in missile storage facilities?

                              Otherwise, as suggested, would be SAMs.

                              Comment


                                #17
                                Originally posted by killerbean View Post
                                Silos... perhaps as in missile storage facilities?

                                Otherwise, as suggested, would be SAMs.
                                If so, that would suggest this facility would support SSBNs

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                                  #18
                                  http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15160

                                  JSC Yantar Shipyard will start construction of new lot of frigates for Indian Navy in 2012, reports RIA Novosti referring to the yard's acting director Alexander Konovalov.

                                  According to him, "we're preparing for construction of the second three frigates for Indian Navy this year; the ships will be identical to the first trio", reports the news agency.

                                  The contract for three Project 1135.6 frigates (INS Teg, INS Tarkash, and INS Trikand) was signed on July 14, 2007 in Delhi. Overall value of the contract was $1.56 bln. JSC Yantar was appointed major executor. The contract provided an option for additional construction of 1-3 frigates.

                                  ...
                                  Very interesting. This is the first I heard of the option for 3 more frigates. The MoD has previously announced that the six Talwars built so far will be the last such purchases and the Navy would follow a 'make and buy Indian' policy from now on.

                                  But with likely delays in the P17A class(as with the Shiwaliks) and the MOD's reluctance to give major orders to private shipyards(Competition for the government yards?) I can see the Navy being tempted by the prospect of adding numbers more quickly...

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                                    #19
                                    Hmmm. One wonders how Yantar will be able to handle the load, unless they plan to expand.
                                    They are still working on Ivan Gren and two Talwars, even those all of them are out of the way of new construction. Aside from that there are three 11356s already under construction, and another trio to follow, as soon as this year.
                                    Another trio of Talwars would be quite the load.
                                    Then there is the question of an Ivan Gren follow on hull.
                                    sigpic

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                                      #20
                                      Originally posted by Witcha View Post
                                      http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15160



                                      Very interesting. This is the first I heard of the option for 3 more frigates. The MoD has previously announced that the six Talwars built so far will be the last such purchases and the Navy would follow a 'make and buy Indian' policy from now on.

                                      But with likely delays in the P17A class(as with the Shiwaliks) and the MOD's reluctance to give major orders to private shipyards(Competition for the government yards?) I can see the Navy being tempted by the prospect of adding numbers more quickly...
                                      It reads "After implementation of that contract, Indian Navy will operate six Project 1135.6 frigates."

                                      So, what they are talking about is Batch 2 (starting with Teg) following Batch 1 (starting with Talwar). First three frigates of that kind were built for India by Baltiysky Zavod shipyard. The second three by JSC Yantar Shipyard. This article does not INHO discuss any Batch 3.

                                      "new contract with Indian Navy would be negotiated in case of successful delivery of the second three frigates."

                                      The second three frigates have not all been delivered. INS Teg has been delivered April 2012, INS Tarkash will be delivered later this year, and INS Trikand (= 6th ship of 11356, 3rd from this yard!) is scheduled in 2013. Deadlines were postponed for more than a year.

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