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By: 2nd January 2007 at 19:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Fascinating!
I presumed that the R DARTER was a fairly new system and would find a home on the Gripen.
An UMKHONTO development would be an interesting move.
Worse come to worse they can always buy AMRAAM or METEOR if the new project falls through. I would of thought MBDA would welcome South African technical input (and cash) with the METEOR program.
By: 2nd January 2007 at 21:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-R-Darter is old news and will be retired with the Cheetah-C.
By: 3rd January 2007 at 08:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Yet very little 'hard' info or pictures around of the R-Darter. I understood the secrecy aspect of South Africa whilst under an arms embargo, but not a lot of information is released even today on weapons/subsystems.
I have variously seen that R-Darter has a range of 60km with a 'combat range' of 30km. I'm not sure what this refers to... a 'no-escape' zone perhaps?
I do hope that they go through with an indigenous missile though. I remember that T-Darter (or S-Darter) was mooted a few years back. I know Brazil are co-operating on the A-Darter, to what level though I'm unsure. Apparentely their current AAM uses a Darter IR seeker head anyway.
I will attempt to dig out the picture of the Integral project and scan it some time soon.
By: 3rd January 2007 at 20:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Yet very little 'hard' info or pictures around of the R-Darter. I understood the secrecy aspect of South Africa whilst under an arms embargo, but not a lot of information is released even today on weapons/subsystems.I have variously seen that R-Darter has a range of 60km with a 'combat range' of 30km. I'm not sure what this refers to... a 'no-escape' zone perhaps?
I do hope that they go through with an indigenous missile though. I remember that T-Darter (or S-Darter) was mooted a few years back. I know Brazil are co-operating on the A-Darter, to what level though I'm unsure. Apparentely their current AAM uses a Darter IR seeker head anyway.
I will attempt to dig out the picture of the Integral project and scan it some time soon.
That would be much appreciated if you could, I am very interested in this and like you hope that South Africa pursues its own missile project. I can see it getting quite an international market if its succesful.
By: 4th January 2007 at 07:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Further info from Business Day 3rd January 2007.
SA ties up missile deal with Brazil for Denel, ArmscorA government-to-government agreement between SA and Brazil has been signed for a joint venture between Armscor, Denel and the Brazilian air force for the development of missiles.
The Brazilians have committed $52m to the project, which will be led by Denel in collaboration with its Brazilian counterparts, Denel spokesman Sam Basch said at the weekend.
In total, the project has been estimated to be worth about R300m. In terms of the agreement, Denel will develop its A-Darter short-range air-to-air missile from a prototype to an operational system.
Denel has already invested considerable sums in developing the missile prototype but has been constrained by a lack of funding to take it to the next stage.
Basch said the agreement, signed a week ago, was a further step in intensifying missile co-operation between Denel and the Brazilians, who opted for Denel as its partner because of Denel`s proven capability in the missile field.
Basch said Denel hoped that other projects would flow from the missile agreement. He said Brazil, for example, would in future require attack helicopters and could be interested in Denel`s Rooivalk.
Meanwhile, the finalisation of the Turkish government tender for attack helicopters has been postponed for the third time — this time until next month.
Denel is competing against the deal`s other preferred bidder, Agusta Aerospace of Italy, for the estimated $2bn tender. Basch said no reasons were given by the Turkish government for the delay in reaching a decision, though he added that Turkey was known for taking a long time to finalise such matters.
Two rival bids, from French Eurocopter Tiger and Russian Kamov KA50-2, were eliminated in the tender. Basch stressed that the delay had no financial or other implications for Denel as the contract had not been built into its budget or its restructuring programme, which is aimed at turning the loss-making arms manufacturer around to profit.
Winning the Turkish contract will ensure the survival of the Rooivalk, which has been sold only to the South African Air Force, which bought 12 helicopters in 1999. Since then Denel has not been successful in finding other buyers for the Rooivalk.
Denel made a fifth successive loss in sits financial year to end March.
By: 4th January 2007 at 12:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-mmmmmmmmm..?
By: 4th January 2007 at 16:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-mmmmmmmmm..?
Interesting, the model labelled A-Darter seems to have the same IR seeker as the Umkhonto, that would be a very significant development, especially if they did a active radar homing variant aswell.
By: 5th January 2007 at 08:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Found that piccy of the Integral ramjet project... will scan them in as soon as I can.
I thought that the A-Darter was a smaller missile.:confused:
By: 8th January 2007 at 03:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-This image apparently depicts a Kentron BVR AAM project at the bottom. Looks vaguely similar to the Denel IR missile project, but this one is clearly radar guided and has shorter ramjet intakes to go with larger tail fins.
By: 8th January 2007 at 09:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-That's the one Sean. I have a couple of larger black 'n white pics that are clearer and will post them today.
By: 8th January 2007 at 14:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Fantastic, purely and totally from the point of view of an aviation enthusiast it is a great shame that South Africa is no longer under sanctions, it would have been great to have seen project Cavas flying with A-Darters and ramjet BVRAAM's with a combination of active radar homing and IR seekers.
By: 9th January 2007 at 08:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Attachments too large, will resize them later. If I have a further drawing on the Integral which comes out of a recently released book, may I post it here with the original copyrighters name or do I have to get their permission?
By: 9th January 2007 at 13:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Provide the name of the book and the author and you should be fine.
By: 16th January 2007 at 10:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Sorry lads... been a very busy start to 2007 for me..will post those pics, I promise!:D
Here is an interesting related thread in the meantime...
http://www.saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=642&start=0
By: 4th May 2007 at 11:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-A picture.. Did I get that from you Sean?
EDIT: I see Tinwing posted it originally.
By: 4th May 2007 at 11:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Picture as promised of the Integral ramjet ASM project by South Africa in the late 1980's to early 1990's. Probably nuclear armed to fulfill same role as the French ASMP...
Makes an interesting backround to various South African various ramjet AAM projects. The images are from "Those Who Had The Power" by Pierre Victor. The book deals with South Africa's various nuclear weapons and delivery programmes.
By: 4th May 2007 at 11:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Thanks Wilhelm! How far along did this programme get?
By: 4th May 2007 at 11:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Not too sure Sealord ... Have info in the book and will post some backround on it soon. It appears as if the missile Sean posted of the Kentron LRAAM along with the other two missiles and the Integral are very similar.
By: 4th May 2007 at 11:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Very, very interesting. I wonder how far along the tests of that ramjet got? I do have my doubts about the nuclear role though; South Africa's nukes were far from sophisticated enough to be used in a missile this size. It was enough of a hassle to try get them to a size that would fit the RSA-3 and RSA-4.
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By: wilhelm - 2nd January 2007 at 12:30
Interesting article below. The S-Darter and T-Darter apparentely have ram-jet propulsion. I have a picture and some basic info on the ram-jet project by South Africa called Integral. This was apparentely going to be a ASM. Does anyone have any further info?