Russian Space and Missiles thread #5

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continued from
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=93561

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20120501.aspx

Russia Steps Back
May 1, 2012: Despite having bought and put into service five S-400 (SA-21) anti-aircraft battalions during the last few years, the Russian Defense Ministry has placed a large (quantity unspecified) order for the older S-300V (SA-12) system. This seems to indicate that the S-400 is having problems (it has certainly encountered many delays). The S-500, while still in development, has also had several embarrassing delays announced.

The original S-300 was known to NATO, during the Cold War, as the SA-10. This system entered service in the late 1970s and was upgraded several times since then. One major upgrade came to be called the SA-12 and it entered service in the late 1980s. Finally, there was the SA-21, which was so different from the original S-300 that it was given a new name by the Russians: the S-400. These systems began entering service, slowly, in 2007.

Russia has already deployed S-400 battalions near Kaliningrad, Moscow and the Far East. Russia has 160 older S-300 battalions, most of them the SA-10 model. A third of the existing S-300 battalions are not in service (and are supposed to be in storage, just in case). Each S-300 battalion had a long-range search radar to detect targets and six launcher vehicles (each carrying four or two missiles). Each of the new S-400 battalion has eight launchers, each with two missiles plus a control center and radar.

The S-300V/SA-12 missiles had a range of 75 kilometers and were considered somewhat similar to the American Patriot systems. Later models of the S-300V had some capability to shoot down short range ballistic missiles. The SA-12 missiles were carried in canisters (either four or two per launcher vehicle). Each launcher vehicle also contained a guidance radar.

The S-400 claims to be superior to the U.S. Patriot and is expensive. Russia is now offering to export the S-400, despite all the advanced technology in it. The S-400 missiles weigh 1.8 tons each, are 8.4 meters (26 feet) long, and about 50cm (20 inches) in diameter. The missiles have a range of some 400 kilometers and can hit targets as high as 100,000 feet. The missile has a 145.5 kg (320 pound) warhead. The target acquisition radar has a range of 700 kilometers.

The S-400 has over five times the range of the U.S. Patriot, weighs twice as much, and claims the ability to detect stealthy aircraft. The S-400 also has an anti-missile capability, which is limited to shorter range (under 3,500 kilometers) ballistic missiles. That would mean a warhead coming in at about 5,000 meters a second (the longer the range of a ballistic missile, the higher its re-entry speed).

The S-400 system actually has two types of missiles, one of them being smaller with a shorter range (120 kilometers). These are deployed four to a launcher, like all other S-300 systems. The S-400 has no combat experience but U.S. intelligence believes that the tests these systems have undergone indicate it is a capable air defense weapon. Just how capable won't be known until it actually gets used in combat. None of the S-300 series systems have any combat experience either but some models have performed well in tests.

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What a typically crappy StrategyPage article.

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He just needed some urgent materials for new threads ... :p . J/K

S300V4 is not the same S300V from 1970s. S300V and S400 have different roles. ABM vs SAM systems, although they have some capability overlap. S400 is successor of S300P series.

One gets the feeling that the group remains in the nomenclature of the parallel development of similar systems, inherited from the Soviet practice: the S-400 and C-300V4, "Buk-M3" and "Hero," "Tor-M2" and "Morpheus."

- I would not say that this parallelism. Each set designed for specific tasks and has a particular consumer. They are not perfect analogues, and they have a different purpose, so that the MoD and ordered all of these systems. It is only from the standpoint of the layman the impression that there is duplication.

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But you can't blame strategy page, even Russians themselves are confused.;)

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2012/3/12/841/

The S-300V4 systems called “Vityaz” are intended for ground forces. They should replace the ageing S-300P and S-300PS systems. It has been reported earlier that 30 Vityaz systems will be delivered to the Russian armed forces by 2020 and they will be operated together with S-400, S-500 and Morphey air defense systems since 2015. According to the Ministry of Defense, S-300V4 is the modernization of S-300V and S-300VМ.

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Vityaz is not S-300V4. It seems a lot of people don't know, that Russia have two different air defenses. One is territorial (VKO an air force air defense) and the second is ground forces air defense to protect army units. VKO (air force) air defense have S-300P series, S-400, Pantsir-S1 and in near future also S-500, Vityaz and Morphei. Ground forces have S-300V series, Buk-M1/M2, Tor-M1/M2, Tunguska, Strela-10.

S-300V4 is for ground forces air defense and S-400 is for VKO. There are no problems with S-400.

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Vityaz is not S-300V4. It seems a lot of people don't know, that Russia have two different air defenses. One is territorial (VKO an air force air defense) and the second is ground forces air defense to protect army units. VKO (air force) air defense have S-300P series, S-400, Pantsir-S1 and in near future also S-500, Vityaz and Morphei. Ground forces have S-300V series, Buk-M1/M2, Tor-M1/M2, Tunguska, Strela-10.

S-300V4 is for ground forces air defense and S-400 is for VKO. There are no problems with S-400.

That's what I meant, The people (ruaviation) who wrote the article themselves are confused ... :D

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By the way, What can a Tunguska and Tor do which a Tracked Pantsir can't?
Pantsir has a better missile than Tunguska:confused:

In the 2012 V day parade also only Buk, S400 and Pantsir were shown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBtXpxOrys0
RS-24 also not shown.
Putin back at the helm too...

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Russia to Test New Naval Air Defense System by Year End
10:31 12/05/2012
MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti)

Russian air defense systems manufacturer Almaz Antei hopes to complete testing of its new Poliment-Redut ship-based air defense missile system by the end of this year, the company’s General Director Vladislav Menshikov said on Saturday.

Previous Russian media reports have claimed the development of the system has been delayed.

Poliment-Redut is derived from the land-based Vityaz air defense system which uses the 9M96 medium-range air defense missile.

“Work on the system is at a preliminary test stage. But to complete testing we need a ship at sea,” Menshikov said. “This year, by all estimates, testing should be complete. The missiles are ready, we are waiting to go to sea,” Menshikov said in an interview with Vedomosti newspaper published on Saturday.


Full article - http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120512/173404790.html

This appears to be the final tests before entry, so we can expect it to be in service next year.
Too bad India did not go ahead for JV and instead went for Barak-8. If Indian money was made available to this project, the system probably would have been in service on the Talwar class and Shivalik class by now.

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India is standardising on Barak-8 and Barak-8 LR jointly developed with Israel as future long range SAM

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By the way, What can a Tunguska and Tor do which a Tracked Pantsir can't?
Pantsir has a better missile than Tunguska:confused:

For now, there is no tracked Pantsir in production yet. If ground forces receive tracked Pantsirs, they will replace Tunguskas. Older Tors have replacement in Tor-M2.

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By the way, What can a Tunguska and Tor do which a Tracked Pantsir can't?
Pantsir has a better missile than Tunguska:confused:

Tunguskha and Pantsir can be clubbed into the same category as a gun-missile system, where as Tor-M1/M2 is a completely different category in terms of capability also.

Tor-M1/M2 is said to have the capability to intercept PGMs where as its not the case with the other two...

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Tor is an Almaz (originally Antey) product and perhaps may be more capable. But KBP also mentioned in their products page that the Pantsir can shoot down Precision weapons.

Is designed for AD of small-size military and industrial objects and areas against aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles and high-precision weapons, as well as AD groups coverage while repelling mass air threats.

http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/zencom/panz.htm

Also it seems Tor is more susceptible to jamming. The 57E6 has a higher velocity than Tor's 9M331 (M3+ vs M2.8) with a heavier warhead. Pantsir has EO guidance as well.
Tracked and wheeled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywcnw8r-CAo
The Pantsir is getting upgraded too... or flaws remedied after feedback :diablo:

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^^^ Nice Picture , yes Venezuela had ordered upgraded Antey-2500 some years back was mentioned in Almaz-Antei annual report.

The sheer energy of big missile of S-300VM is big missile is mind boggling , top speed of Mach 7 and average speed of M 3.5 .......perhaps it will only be superceeded by the big missile of S-400 40N6 series.

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Nice Picture , yes Venezuela had ordered upgraded Antey-2500 some years back was mentioned in Almaz-Antei annual report.

I think this is system for Russia.

superceeded by the big missile of S-400 40N6 series.

But no one has ever seen haha. S-400 use only 48N6DM

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Just because no one has ever seen, does not mean it does not exist. By that logic half of the systems used by the Russian mil didn't exist. :o
40N6 is supposed to enter service this year anyways.

However I am quite sure that system is not for Russia- S-300V4 is not new build, and they are not acquiring new systems of the type.
Plus, there were constant rumors of Venezuela ordering the VM.

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Russia Folds Soyuz-U Launch Program
20:39 17/05/2012
MOSCOW, May 17 (RIA Novosti)

The launch of a Soyuz-U carrier rocket from the Plesetsk Space Center in northern Russia on Thursday was the last in its 40-year history, spokesman for Russia’s Space Forces Col. Alexei Zolotukhin said.

The Soyuz-U orbited on Thursday a Cosmos-series reconnaissance satellite to expand Russia’s Oko (Eye) orbital missile early warning network, which consists of about 70 satellites.

“The launch on May 17 of a medium class Soyuz-U carrier rocket from Plesetsk was the last for this type of launch vehicles,” Zolotukhin said.

The first launch of a Soyuz-U was conducted from the Plesetsk Space Center on May 18, 1973. A total of 434 launches have been carried out, orbiting about 430 spacecraft.

“The Soyuz-U will be replaced by Soyuz-2 and Angara-A3 medium class carrier rockets,” Zolotukhin said.


http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120517/173517900.html

Russia Launches Military Satellite
19:03 17/05/2012
MOSCOW, May 17 (RIA Novosti)

Russia’s Space Forces launched on Thursday a Soyuz-U carrier rocket with a Cosmos-series military satellite, SF spokesman Col. Alexey Zolotukhin said.

The rocket was launched from the Plesetsk space center in northern Russia.

“The launch has been carried out to expand the cluster of Russian military satellites in orbit,” Zolotukhin said.

The official did not provide details on the specific nature of the spacecraft but according to NASAspaceflight.com it could be a Kobalt-M spy satellite with advanced reconnaissance and terrain mapping capabilities.

In this capacity it will join Russia's Oko (Eye) orbital missile early warning network, which consists of about 70 satellites.

The Soyuz-U rocket is designed to orbit Soyuz and Progress manned and cargo spacecraft, as well as special-purpose satellites such as Cosmos, Resurs-F, Foton and Bion.


http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120517/173515051.html

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Soyuz FG (11A511U-FG) is a Soyuz U class (11A511U). TMA-05M till TMA-13M is planned uptil 2014 with a Soyuz. Are you implying the takeover of Soyuz 2 for manned flights. Soyuz 2 is not yet cleared for manned flights. How is this going to happen? Soyuz 2 can take over unmanned launches that is clear. Angara is not even flying yet, so we can leave out Angara A5P (manned rated) series for a few years.

Enjoy the launch of Nimiq 6 yesterday, Proton M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K3trUn0qiQ

Two launches in a week ... Go Khrunichev, Go Progress. Kuznetsov?? :(. What happened to NK 33?:confused:

Just a side info : NPO Energomash RD-180s also flew two weeks ago on Atlas V :).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgEFj7R7Y4U

RD 191 to fly again :eek: with Naro-1 this year.

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However I am quite sure that system is not for Russia- S-300V4 is not new build, and they are not acquiring new systems of the type.

I dount they can upgrade their existing S-300VM to S-300V4 standards considering the former has a range of 200 km and the V4 has a range of 400 km.

Some elements like radars could be upgraded but by and large S-300V4 will be new built specially the new interceptors.